Honda Element

[Scott Brady]

I just dig the functionality of these little machines. PaulJ on our forum has used one for lots of exploration too. 26 mpg with the manual.

The 2007 Element has traction control now as well.

This thread can serve as a placeholder for ideas and comments on this little machine.

 

[Bergger]

I've always like them and thought about getting one but it's not "truck" enough for my wife. She wanted the Xterra. I know a lot of people don't like the gray molding on the sides but I dig it. I think it looks better than the models with out the molding. I think you should go ahead and get one so we can all see you bring out the full potential of the truck.

 

[Christian P.]

yep, i also looked into that option but it failed the girlfriend's test...by a long shot...

Christian

 

[TeleScooby]

I used to drive one...loved that little bugger, and I actually met Paulj at an Element meet near Seattle.

They are truly useful vehicles, in fact I don't think I've ever driven a more useful car or truck...however I also learned the hard way to never buy the first production year of a new and different vehicle:yikes:

I like the way that one is set up Scott, where did you come up with that photo? I think I still have a couple of shots of mine from my trip down to central oregon...

 

[Martinjmpr]

Very seriously considered one of these when I was looking at trading in my Outback. What finally killed it for me, though, was that the MPG wasn't all that great, and ground clearance was pitiful. Not only is clearance bad, but crawl underneath one and you'll see that one of the lowest parts hanging down is the gas tank! Now why doesn't that seem like a good idea, to have the gas tank hanging below the frame? I was also leery of the "on demand" 4wd system. Coming from a Subaru with AWD I figured that would be a step down. Now I have conventional 2wd when I'm on the street and conventional 4wd off road. But I've got a hell of a lot more clearance.

If Honda could have figured a way to make these just a little more off-road capable I think they'd have an awesome little exploration vehicle. I absolutely love the boxy shape and the utilitarian cargo area - makes a small vehicle that can carry a lot!

BTW, that's an interesting looking exploration setup. But where are they planning on using that high-lift jack, seeing as how the Element has plastic bumpers front and back?

Oh, another point in the Element's favor: An actual, by-God Tailgate! Am I the only one who misses tailgates? Another reason I like having a pickup again. Tailgate is useful to sit on, as a platform for cooking and cleaning, etc.

 

[paulj]

The best thing about the Element, in my opinion, is that the interior practically begs to be used as a camper.

The poor ground clearance certainly is a strong limitation. A lot of people worry about the low, exposed gas tank, but in practice it isn't a real problem. I have not read of a punctured tank. Mine only has some superficial scratches, while the exhaust resonator on the other side of the car has a big dent. I also have some scratches on the rear subframe, which is the actual low point.

The 2nd generation CRV has a similar suspension and drive train. The nominal ground clearance is a bit better, and the gas tank is tucked in closer to the rear wheels. However a number of CRV owners found that when they drove in ruts, the 'skid plate' on the fuel vapor canister behind the fuel tank would drag. If dislodged it could hit a rear half shaft, producing an oil leak in the rear differential etc. No Element owners have reported that problem, either because the Element is not vulnerable in this way, or Element owners are not quite as adventurous.

With experience I've learned to be both more cautious, and to drive in ways that avoids most problems. For example, I try to cross water bars at an angle, trying to keep diagonally opposite tires on the high spot at the same time. I also have keep in mind that it has independent suspension all around, and a stiffer (anti)sway bar in front than in the rear. I try to avoid ruts, sticking to higher ground between and to one side of the ruts. On my last back country drive in British Columbia I stopped several times to move rocks out the road, to avoid scraping them on the rear subframe.

Previously I had an S10 pickup with conventional 4wd. There were times where I had to go into 4H just to compensate for the skittish rear end; the Element's default front wheel drive rarely needs the assistance of the rear wheels. With the S10, I appreciated 4L for it's engine braking on steep hills. The Element lacks that low range engine braking, but it's brakes are much better. Turning radius on the Element is much better, allowing me to turn around on slight widenings of mountain shelf roads.

paulj

 

[mjohnston39]

Someone on the EOC website made a pop-up version of the Element: http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33073

Mike

 

[mike h]

I've seen Elements on OEM tires perform exceptionally well in deep sand tracks on the access roads to the Outer Banks. I was amazed they made it - literally plowing thru the tracks left by the 31-38 inch tire crowd. I saw one on the approach and figured I'd be strapping him out any minute, but he floated past with no troubles.

I talked to an owner and he said he had occasional overheating problems in long traverses of deep sand - if the belly is dragging in deep sand it gets hot fast. I was unclear if he chose to shut it off and cool, or if a sensor interfered and made the decision for him. He also said he had cracked a windshield which he attributed to flex, not a stray rock.

I love the shape and design of the Element. Make us a half-ton version! Or, if Honda would would give us an AWD Odyssey with decent app/dep angles and the clearance of a Suby. I also think Suby would do well if they designed a cool minivan for the Outback platform, a modern take on the classic VW Synchros van.

m.

 

[kcowyo]

Someone on the EOC website made a pop-up version of the Element:

That's pretty slick! Just a Westfalia top he grafted onto an Element I'm assuming....?

Big bonus points for being original, creative and talented enough to figure that out. That's really cool - :beer:

 

[paulj]

I was unclear if he chose to shut it off and cool, or if a sensor interfered and made the decision for him. He also said he had cracked a windshield which he attributed to flex, not a stray rock.

The AWD mechanism has an overheating cutoff. Since AWD is activated by oil pressure buildup (a pump driven by the drive shaft spins faster than one driven by the rear differential), the oil can heatup. The thermal cutoff is temporary. I've read of just a handful of cases where this has occurred. The clearest cases are ones like this, involving an extended time of driving in loose sand, or a long hill climb in snow. I'm guessing that 10-20 minutes of continual front wheel spinning would activate it, with a similar cooling off period.

Occasionally people have complained that the rear wheels did nothing to get them out of a mud hole. While it is possible that this thermal cutoff activated, I suspect that one of the rear tires was spinning without them noticing. The Element has open differentials, front and rear. The more sophisticated AWD mechanism on the Honda Pilot and Ridgeline has some form of rear right/left limited slip.

Windshield cracks have been an issue with the Element since Honda issued a TSB in May 2003 about uneven welds on the windshield frame. I'm sure that particular problem was solved at the factory right away, but rumors and complaints have persisted - though less so in recent years. I haven't seen evidence that body flex has anything to do with it. I've had a number of rock hits, some leaving minor chips, some stable moon shaped cracks, some stable stars, and one that travel across the windshield. The pattern has been consistent with what I know of windshields - hits near the edge are more likely to spread, especially when subject to thermal stresses (defrost, sun, water). I suspect the short hood lets more rocks hit the windshield than on some other SUVs.

paulj

 

[teotwaki]

................. But where are they planning on using that high-lift jack, seeing as how the Element has plastic bumpers front and back?
..........

Would be handy when used with the strap and hook gadget that lifts at the alloy wheel, especially when you cannot get a standard jack underneath the Element in rocky or soft terrain

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

My parents in law have one and they love it. AWD, 27 mpg, I have driven it quite a bit, it actually zips around pretty well, goes up the big 3,000 foot grades in 5th even loaded... They have the 5 speed, which is great, very easy to drive, nicely setup with factory XM. TONS of room inside, much more than an FJ cruiser, they are sort of like FJ Cruisers, bodystyle-wise. How the seats go down and the interior size of them is awesome. They are fine on upto pretty knarly dirt roads, stuff that it would be questionable to take a Subaru Outback on, about the same.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I would quibble about the "AWD" system. Maybe it's just semantics but to me a vehicle that is FWD until it starts to slip is not really an "AWD" vehicle. AWD implies that all 4 wheels are driving at all times. I think even Honda refers to it as "on-demand 4wd" or by their trademark name of "real time 4wd."

I'm not sure how many actual AWD vehicles are out there. Subaru, certainly, Audi, and maybe some of the higher-end brands, but from what I've seen most of the less-expensive CUVs/cute-utes/crossovers have this type of "on demand 4wd" rather than true AWD.

Having said that, if I lived in the Eastern part of the US and never traveled off of well-graded dirt roads, I'd love to have an Element. I love the practical, wipe down (not hose-down, although many people think it is) interior, the removable seats, and the utilitarian, boxy shape. IMO I would like to see more vehicles like this. Maybe something like a bigger Element on the Pilot or Ridgeline chassis, with decent clearance and decent approach/departure angles.

However, I have also heard that the Element has been something of a sales disappointment for Honda. Does anyone know if this is true or not? I'd hate to see the Element get dropped but unfortunately, often times vehicles that have the audacity to be a little "different" (like the Subaru Baja) often get dropped without much ceremony because the buying public is too conditioned to get the same things over and over again.

 

[mjohnston39]

"That's pretty slick! Just a Westfalia top he grafted onto an Element I'm assuming....?"

No, apparently everything was custom made, IIRC the guy works with plastics and composites and most of the structure is carbon fiber.

Mike.

 

[CLynn85]

Just thought I'd throw my $0.02 in since I have a friend with the element who likes trying to wheel it.

The element is a pretty unique vehicle indeed. I'm not a fan of the dash layout myself but that's something you can get used to. Had the element been based off of the pilot chassis with a higher ground clearance I think it may have experienced a little more success.

That said the little element with a driver that doesn't have too many inhibitions can make it pretty far off the beaten path. As mentioned the ground clearance and lack of suspension travel are definately the biggest limiting factors. The awd system doesn't really like it, but it does work well enough to get through slippery sections of the trail, and ruts pose the biggest problem.

I attached a couple pictures of a previous outing, sorry for the quality, accidentally bumped the camera into one of the manual modes.

In the first picture the mud wasn't very deep, he just got a little throttle happy. The second picture shows him trying to get off the the side and straddle the ruts to keep from high centering, and did a good job of it, no problems there. The third picture shows the little e's biggest downfall, it's breakover angle. We had to try a couple times to get a good line over this section and still skidded along the undercarriage more.

My impressions on this thing to get it farther would be to work out something along the lines of a spacer lift, combined with some taller tires, to get this thing up a little higher and to keep the tires grabbing through the slippery stuff. Also, there's only one factory tow hook in the rear, and when the vehicle's high centered, it's pretty much useless, found this out the hard way. Also may need to do something in the way of relocating the air intake if you plan on going deeper in water, that'd be a really bad way to end the day right there.

From a practicality standpoint I LOVE the way you can configure the interior. It makes it ideal for a camping setup, and does decently around town as well. One thing my friend that owns one did mention, is that the practicality hasn't made him fall in love with it as much as he had hoped. He does like it, but he said he's just not as passionate about it as he has been with previous vehicles.