Honda Generator

mbryson12

New member
I am looking for some info concerning the 1000w Honda generators. I am going to be living in my camper pretty much all summer without a hook up. I am looking at the Honda generators and trying to decide if that is the way to go. I have a 2010 Northstar TC650 and plan on taking it off of the truck for the summer and living in it.

1. If I am running the generator at night will it charge my battery as well as run my LED lights and water pump etc.

2. My main concern is being able to keep my battery charged to run the easy things and to run the generator to run 110v to charge and run a computer etc.. I am planning on running the fridge off of propane all summer as well as the furnace on cold nights.

Has anyone had any experience in doing this. And if so how long does it usually take to recharge a battery when it has been drawn down.

Any suggestions would be great!
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
If your camper is rigged for a shore power connection then there is no difference.

The shore power connection would power the 120v outlets inside the camper and also the converter/charger which supplies 12v both to run the 12v stuff in the camper and also to charge the battery. You would feed the shore power connection by plugging it into the generator's 120v outlet.

How long it takes to charge the battery depends on a couple of things:

1. How big is the battery.
2. How much is the battery discharged.
3. How big is the converter/charger.
4. How many watts are being used for lights and things while you are trying to charge the battery.

I have a 100 amp*hour battery in my camper. I regularly let it run down pretty low. I have a Shumacher 10a battery charger which takes about 12 hours to fully top off the battery (the battery absorbs less as it gets full).

Luckily, my 2000w Honeywell generator will run 13 hours from a single tank with no load but the battery charger, my netbook and one inside light, so when I need to charge the battery, I just fill the tank on the gen and let it run till it's dry.


The bigger the converter/charger in your camper, the quicker it will charge the battery. However, too big of a converter/charger could possibly draw more than the 900w continuous rating of the generator.

The TC650 spec sheet lists a 25a converter/charger. It doesn't say what size battery. If the battery is 100 amp*hours, then if it was totally dead, it would probably take 6-8 hours to get it fully charged.

A 25a converter/charger would probably draw between 350w and 400w, so that's less than 50% of the 900w that the Honda can continuously supply.


Okay, so that's charging the battery by plugging the shore power into the generator.

You may be thinking of using the 12v outlet on the Honda to charge the battery, and at the same time using the 120v outlet to run the laptop.

Nope - forget it.

I can't remember if it was the older Honda, or the newer Honda (newer I think), but one of them specifically says you can not use both the 120v power and the 12v power at the same time. Either/or, but not both.

But even if you could use both at once, the beauty of the inverter generators is that they throttle down to save fuel when the load is light. To use the 12v outlet on the Honda, you have to turn off the "economy mode" so it runs at full RPM - and so you don't save any fuel.

Also, the 12v outlet of almost all small generators - including the Honda - is unregulated. So it can overcharge your battery unless you carefully monitor it yourself. It's not like an automatic battery charger.



And be aware that a lot of generators get stolen. Running a cable or chain through the handle doesn't do a lot of good since the thieves just cut through the plastic handle.
 

mbryson12

New member
Thanks

Thanks for the great insight. Definitely gets a little confusing trying to sort out the electrical needs for these things!
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
As you sort things out--and I agree it's complicated--don't forget that the battery bank can be recharged from your vehicle alternator, and perhaps faster than you think.

You might well have something like a 100 amp alternator, which theoretically means (in the roughest, most simplistic terms) that you would could recharge a 100 amp/hr battery bank, which you wouldn't draw down below 50%, with just half-an-hour of driving. In practice, there are losses and the vehicle will want some of that charge for itself, but the point is valid . . . if you'll be driving from place-to-place during camping, you can do a lot of the battery charging off the vehicle alternator.

If you care to read up on the topic, I often recommend the book Managing 12 Volts as a worthwhile investment of $15 or so. It's available here, among other places:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Managing-12-Volts-Troubleshoot-Electrical/dp/0964738619"]http://www.amazon.com/Managing-12-Volts-Troubleshoot-Electrical/dp/0964738619[/ame]
 

mbryson12

New member
Thanks for the info on the book. i will for sure check it out. Unfortunately this summer I will be taking the TC 650 off of my truck and be living in it while out on fire assignments. Recharging from the truck is the best solution, but I don't want to constantly be driving around with the camper on all summer. I figured charging from the generator every now and then would be a good way to get a quick charge for the battery since I won't be using a ton of use. Mainly the lights etc.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
You should be aware of a couple of things.

1) Regularly taking a lead-acid battery down below 50% charge will significantly shorten its life. Sulfation will build up and lower the capacity of the battery. After a year, a 100ah battery might only be able to hold 75ah. I thrash mine so I plan ahead of time that it will need to be replaced after perhaps two years. Because of the way I abuse my aux battery, I don't buy the most expensive battery.

2) The 16k btu furnace in the TC650 spec sheet is a pig - it will consume a LOT of both propane and power. 1 gallon of propane has 91,000 btu. 91k / 16k = 5.6 * 5 hours = 28.4 hours. So you'll get about 28 hours of furnace burn time out of a 5 gallon tank of propane. By that time, it will have also drained your battery pretty low.

You may not need your furnace in the summer. My camper has a 12k btu furnace but I never use it. I do have a 400w/800w electric heater that I can run off the generator if need be, but I rarely use that either. I'm planning to pick up a 4k btu Mr. Buddy, which uses no power, as well as the hose kit that allows it to run off my camper's built-in 5g propane tank.

5g of propane, used only for cooking 3 meals a day lasts me 8-9 weeks. Cooking and running my little Norcold 1.7cu' fridge on low, 5-6 weeks. Cooking and fridge on high, 3 weeks. Running the 12k furnace for a couple hours at night and an hour in the morning - a week tops.
 

tanglefoot

ExPoseur
I might be a bit biased, but how about using the generator budget and putting it toward roof-mounted solar instead. You could get a pretty significant solar system for the cost of a generator. Then you have clean, silent, reliable power that's automatically doing its thing at all daylight hours. That way you don't have to allocate space for generator storage or worry about fuel, fumes, noise, or convenient theft. You can use an inverter for the computer or a 12-v supply if it's a laptop. It'll also help maintain the deep-cycle(s) for longer battery life span.

Sounds like a great adventure. Thanks so much for your service work.

Eric
 
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dwh

Tail-End Charlie
I might be a bit biased, but how about using the generator budget and putting it toward roof-mounted solar instead.


For myself, I certainly considered it, and may still eventually do it, but there are some drawbacks that have kept me from it with the camper I have now.

A) I like to park in the shade when I can. I do like the desert, where there is plenty of sun, but I have a surplus parachute that I like to spread out over the camper. It gives me a nice large shaded area (awnings on all sides basically) and by spacing it up off the camper roof a bit, keeps the camper a lot cooler.

B) I have a camper van. I.e., not a lot of rooftop real estate. I could easily get a 180w PV module on the roof. If I relocated or eliminated the 14" roof vent I might even squeeze in two - but even 360w wouldn't be enough to run heat or a/c so I'd still need the generator anyway if I wanted to run big loads like that.


You could get a pretty significant solar system for the cost of a generator.

Not quite. My generator cost $500. You wouldn't get a large solar system for $500.

Sure, a small solar setup would be plenty to keep up with a DC fridge, but the one I have is a 3-way, and it draws a LOT of amps on DC. Far, far better to run it on propane. I thought about ripping it out and replacing it with a DC fridge, but this one works fine and since it costs about 10 bucks to fill the propane tank once a month or so...it would take years to amortize the cost. It's the smallest, simplest unit Norcold makes (model 323) and doesn't have an electronic control board to fail, so the fridge is very unlikely to fail and need replacement. If it does, I'll reconsider the 12v fridge option.

The battery doesn't get used for much. It runs the water pump, netbook, DVD player and some lights and fans and also occasionally recharges AA batteries (once a month or so for toothbrush and shaver) and the 18v Ryobi batteries for my portable power tools, which don't get used much except the flashlight.

So, $500 (or more) worth of solar to keep all the batteries charged is a little overkill, whereas $500 for a generator + the gas to run it once or twice a week when in the field does the same job, but also gives me the ability to run bigger loads if need be.

And it's not just the solar, to store the harvested watts I'd need more battery as well. One 100ah battery isn't much really. Two would be better, so there's some more additional cost for another battery as well as wiring and whatnot.


Solar is nifty, and at some point I might add it to this camper, but I'd still carry the generator anyway...so do I really need the solar? Also to consider in my situation, is that if I'm on the move or moving every couple of days, then the truck's alternator keeps the battery charged and I never need the generator. I only use it when parked at one spot for more than a few days.


Then you have clean, silent, reliable power that's automatically doing its thing at all daylight hours.

Not really. PV modules (solar panels) don't put out much unless they are getting hit with full direct sunlight. Generally, fixed flat mounted panels can be expected to put our full power for 4-6 hours a day. Overcast cuts down the output by as much as 90%, and any shade at all - even on one cell in the whole module - can cut the power output to almost nothing. But even that's a bit misleading, since PV modules don't put out full rated power when they get hot, and since they are dark colored and pointed at the sun, they are usually hot. So figure they'll normally put out 80% of rated power for 4-6 hours per day.


That way you don't have to allocate space for generator storage or worry about fuel, fumes, noise, or convenient theft.

Yea, true. I solved the space and theft issues by building a metal box on the back of the camper to hold the generator, which can be locked shut for transport, or locked partially open for cooling when the gen is in use but still make theft somewhat difficult.

Fuel, fumes and noise...those are still issues.
 

Sleeping Dog

Adventurer
I have a Honda 2000 which is similar to the 1000 but 15-ish watts. There is a 12 volt option for battery charging and other, but it requires an optional wiring kit that is not very expensive. But the generator does not provide any regulator function so you either need to monitor the charging status or have it built in to the circuit. The same would situation would occur if you are charging through shore power.

Jim
 

wild1

Adventurer
Generator use

I use a 1000 Honda with my camper and it works great. We just got back from a couple of months of dry camping and we never had any problem with keeping our batteries charged. I would suggest that you get a couple of true deep cycle batteries with a combined 20 hour rating of 200 amp hours or more. You can do this with either 6 or 12 volt batteries but the least expensive way is using 2 6 volt golf cart batteries. Hopefully your camper has a smart charger built into the converter but if not I would get one and wire it to charge off the shore power. My charger supplies 35 amps per hour at 12 volts so depending on my other 12 volt use it can bring the battery bank back to full power in 3 to 4 hours from a 50 percent status.In practice I usually only run the generator for a couple of hours every three days unless we are running the heater a lot. I think having a100 watt portable solar panel would be ideal and in warmer weather I might not need the generator at all. On the other hand when the sun has'nt peeked out for days and the temperture is below freezing it's very comforting to have the little Honda purring away. One last thought, while you can hook the Honda directly to the batteries and charge at 12 volts the charge rate is only around 8amps so it will take forever to replenish your battery bank if it is discharged.
 

JCMatthews

Tour Guide
Eu2000

The price difference between the EU1000i and the EU2000i is only $150-$200 more. Why would you not get the EU2000i. The EU2000i is 20lbs heavier but runs almost twice as long. It will also run a small AC unit, and large power tools, even a full size microwave oven. The EU1000i will only run radios, small power tools like a 1/4 inch drill, and a blender. No way will it run any kind of an AC unit. It will only power a fan. For the money I'd be getting the EU2000i. Especially where you will be living in your camper this summer. A few more options of convenience might be nice.
 
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grizzlyj

Tea pot tester
My camper is geared to be entirely battery, not mains powered, apart from carrying a fan heater when hooked up.

The 11kg propane botlle is for cooking only, and lasts 6 months constant use.

Water heating is a D5 Ebespacher, air heating is blown air via an heat exchanger off this.

The compressor fridge has a danfoss compressor and works well even in the heat. As I sit inside here now its 30.5 deg C and the chicken in the ice box is still frozen :)

Some lights are LEDs, but some are halogen depending if general illumination or "work" lighting.

The AGM batteries are both 255Ah, and with two of us showering, not staying up well into the darkness, the two 100W solar panels are keeping the batteries full all by themselves.

But. I do have a EU1000i. I didn't buy a bigger one because it won't fit without losing other stuff, I don't want aircon, and any tools are either air powered or rechargable. I had a 24v microwave but thought it was too hungry in terms of power and space so binned it.

I havn't needed to use it yet though. We are currently in Figuig at about the same latitude as Arizona (?), and the solar when not going overboard with electrical use, has been fine. We did get a bit stuck in the Outer Hebrides two years ago in Jan/Feb when I wish I had had a genny, but the batteries never went below 24.7v as a pair at the time. I now have the genny as we're going even further north later this year all being well, and I don't expect to get much from the sun.

Panels in the sun and a camper in the shade would be my aim if I were you, while minimising electrical use. If you're stationary solar heating hot water on a reasonable scale might be an idea for instance? You may then only have minimal requirements for a genny if at all, so could buy a cheaper than the Honda one as back up. Noise, a 2nd fuel type, theft worries and my proven experience with panels doesn't make me much of a genny fan!

More solar will be my next move!

Jason

:)
 

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