How many amps can I put through a 12v power socket? "Poor Man's Goal Zero"
- Thread starter Martinjmpr
- Start date
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Sure, as long as the panel's Vmp is in the "12v nominal" range (15v-22v). But you could use the MPPT that way as well, so it's not a specifically PWM benefit.
No worries.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Hmmm...OK, I think I'm going to have to shelve this idea for now.
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I did find something interesting on Amazon:
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https://www.amazon.com/Newport-Vess...TF8&qid=1506110212&sr=8-3&keywords=arkpak#Ask
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Basically it is everything I am looking to try and do, EXCEPT that it does not come with a way to charge the battery.
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Reviews also seem to be spotty, though. Some people like the product but others have had issues with durability.
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Still, The more I look into this, the more I'm feeling like I'm at a dead end. Basically I don't think I can build something that's going to work as well as an ArkPak unless I spend close to the cost of an ArkPak. As much as I enjoy hobby-ing around, at some point it just makes sense to pay the money and save my time.
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The Achilles heel seems to be in the recharging. Without a way to send a high amount of current in a reasonably short time to the battery, the power box will only be good until it needs recharging, and at that point it's just extra weight and taking up space. And the only way to charge, it seems, is to either find a way to connect it directly to the alternator/vehicle battery with heavy-gauge cable, or find a 120vAC outlet to plug it into.
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I did find something interesting on Amazon:
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https://www.amazon.com/Newport-Vess...TF8&qid=1506110212&sr=8-3&keywords=arkpak#Ask
.
Basically it is everything I am looking to try and do, EXCEPT that it does not come with a way to charge the battery.
.
Reviews also seem to be spotty, though. Some people like the product but others have had issues with durability.
.
Still, The more I look into this, the more I'm feeling like I'm at a dead end. Basically I don't think I can build something that's going to work as well as an ArkPak unless I spend close to the cost of an ArkPak. As much as I enjoy hobby-ing around, at some point it just makes sense to pay the money and save my time.
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The Achilles heel seems to be in the recharging. Without a way to send a high amount of current in a reasonably short time to the battery, the power box will only be good until it needs recharging, and at that point it's just extra weight and taking up space. And the only way to charge, it seems, is to either find a way to connect it directly to the alternator/vehicle battery with heavy-gauge cable, or find a 120vAC outlet to plug it into.
How about a 215ah AGM battery, that you just use while out, the recharge with shore power at home and or top off with solar?
I am going this direction with one I picked up second hand for $85 http://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/spec-sheets/DC215-12.pdf DWH has said a few times that he does not baby his batteries and just plans on replacing them more often, so he draws them below 50%.
I am going this direction with one I picked up second hand for $85 http://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/spec-sheets/DC215-12.pdf DWH has said a few times that he does not baby his batteries and just plans on replacing them more often, so he draws them below 50%.
I am pointing out that it is not **safe** to try to put that amount of current through a ciggie port.
Just because you want to do something, doesn't make it possible.
Now if you are driving 18 hours a day, maybe.
The advantage of DIY is **not** saving money. It is getting the ancillary devices that actually match your desired usage patterns.
For many, the inverter is either not needed at all, or they need a bigger one, or can get by with super cheap ones, etc.
The shore power charger is completely inadequate by any standard in a mobile context, needs to be at least 30-40A just for battery health, not to mention having to wait 16 hours to recharge. Also not compatible with LFP like the Battle Born G31 drop-in, which would otherwise be perfect.
And so on. . .
Bingo!
A little portable genny matched to the biggest shore power charger it will power, plus a "suitcase style" portable solar panels gives maximum flexibility.
The total charging capacity from an alternator is pretty minimal for most usage patterns, and you still need solar to get the battery to 100% full for longevity.
Of course shore power available overnight makes all these problems go away, but. . .
astropuppy
New member
I realize i'm late to this thread. L plug a simple hobby charger into the 12v socket. using a charger allows me to safely control the charge of a depleted house battery. no inverter needed.
This charger can do many things other then charge pb batteries.
Turnigy Reaktor 250W 10A 1-6S Balance Charger
This charger can do many things other then charge pb batteries.
Turnigy Reaktor 250W 10A 1-6S Balance Charger
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
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That's a 120vAC charger though right? My whole question was how to recharge a portable battery while I was away from electrical power using the 12v socket in the vehicle.
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EDIT: Just looked at it, I guess I was wrong, looks like input voltage is 10 - 18vDC. So what do you do, just connect the alligator clips to the battery? That would work while stationary but would not work while driving down the road, obviously.
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Which brings me back to my original problem....but from what I've seen here, it seems that routing power through a PWM solar controller would probably work.
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Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
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Good thought but at 132 lbs for the battery alone that takes it out of the "portable" category.
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2 x 6v golf cart batteries hooked up in series would give me the same capacity. In fact, that's what I have our travel trailer running on now.
gwittman
Adventurer
I have read through all this information and I don't have any advice to help you Martin, but I can share some experience regarding cig lighter/power port usage. I ran my ARB refrigerator off of my power port. It worked fine for many years but I eventually started having a problem with it. After considerable investigating I discovered the power port backside wiring connection was getting warm enough to oxidize the connection and increasing the resistance enough to get even hotter resulting in partially melting the plastic refrigerator plug.
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I looked around for a better power port and plug. Not much information was available on the rating of them but I finally decided on some that at least looked to be of better quality. Once installed everything worked better. I even installed a three port extension and am able to plug my refrigerator and other accessories into it without over loading now. I keep an eye on the port to make sure they are not getting warm and so far so good. I expect with age, oxidation may show its ugly head but at around 10 years it is still working well.
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What I am trying to point out is; even if it appears to work well at a certain amperage, longer term usage at the higher amperage may degrade the port to the point of failure. I am thinking charging a battery would draw enough continuous amps to do to do this.
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I looked around for a better power port and plug. Not much information was available on the rating of them but I finally decided on some that at least looked to be of better quality. Once installed everything worked better. I even installed a three port extension and am able to plug my refrigerator and other accessories into it without over loading now. I keep an eye on the port to make sure they are not getting warm and so far so good. I expect with age, oxidation may show its ugly head but at around 10 years it is still working well.
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What I am trying to point out is; even if it appears to work well at a certain amperage, longer term usage at the higher amperage may degrade the port to the point of failure. I am thinking charging a battery would draw enough continuous amps to do to do this.
astropuppy
New member
Its a 12v charger, I plug it directly into a (switched) power plug. Only bad thing is you have to start the charge every time you start the car. Generally I charge my deep cycle at a 8 amp hr rate.
rayra
Expedition Leader
Yes, wire all the 12v-17v inputs to the charge controller.
But I am suggesting you add the APP as a connector type, to add that as an optional input connection. You are after all talking about a portable system, so why deliberately exclude the option?
I'm about to relocate the charge controller from my portable panel kit to my built-in power module, as part of creating a roof-deck flat mount for the panel(s). I'll hard wire thru the roof rack to the built in box, as well as convert or add another coupling on the rear face of the module for connecting the solarpanel kit when it is deployed on the ground. And if I need to use the panel kit somewhere else or on another vehicle, I'll just pull the controller out and put it back on the panel kit. I'll be using APP connectors and some velcro to facilitate those options.
eta all that stuff in the module is connected via a 1/0 cable 'bus' to my under-hood Aux battery. I chose to add options so I could power just about anything I encounter.
I'm also planning front and rear bumper mounted APP SB175 couplings, both branching from that Aux battery 1/0 cabling arrangement so I can run a hitch-mounted winch front or rear.
On top of that, I'm planning to retrofit my heavy duty jumper cables wwith an SB175 coupling near on end, so they can be connected to those bumper couplings a la a military vehicle 'slave' cable.
Point being that as long as you are making a portable power box based on such a large battery, you could also add such connections to add 'portable jump box' to the roster of capabilities.
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I'm after the same thing @Martinjmpr, so I read this thread with some interest. While I feel I could build my own, I"m not sure it's worth the time.. and whether I could do it cleanly (for a really nice example check this one out http://forum.expeditionportal.com/t...erator-Build-in-Progress-Few-questions-though or this one http://forum.expeditionportal.com/t...erator-Build-in-Progress-Few-questions-though) but I recently found a Paxcess Solar generator: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M3S00H0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1URT32HDKZE0B&psc=1
Some highlights:
- usb outlets
- cigarette outlet (via an adapter)
- 100w inverter
- battery indicator
- solar ready
- 12Ah @ 12 v
basically it's an all in one unit. It's not a huge capacity, but with decent solar it meets all of the needs (including in car charging) that you outlined. Combined with a smallish panel this would be a great "accessory charging station". Thoughts?
Some highlights:
- usb outlets
- cigarette outlet (via an adapter)
- 100w inverter
- battery indicator
- solar ready
- 12Ah @ 12 v
basically it's an all in one unit. It's not a huge capacity, but with decent solar it meets all of the needs (including in car charging) that you outlined. Combined with a smallish panel this would be a great "accessory charging station". Thoughts?
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
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Eh, I think those "all in one" "power packs" are more for people who want to be able to charge their phones or tablets. And 12ah isn't much - Hell I can go down to HF and get a "portable jump starter" with a 17ah battery for less than $60:
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https://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-portable-power-pack-with-jump-starter-62306.html
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Those little "power packs" have deceptively high "mAH" ratings but you have to dig into the details to see that the "40000 mAH battery" is measured at 3.8v. As you pointed out at 12v the battery is more in the 12ah range.
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In fact, when I was at HF a couple weeks ago I came across their solar stuff. Here's a 35ah battery that is small enough to fit into an ammo can:
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https://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-35-amp-hour-universal-battery-68680.html
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Combine it with a simple PWM controller and the appropriate input/outputs and it would probably do everything I need as well.