Root Moose
Expedition Leader
I don't have a problem with old vehicles. I like modern stuff in general but appreciate some of the older designs/shapes out there.
I do however have a minimum "spec" that a machine has to have in order for me to consider running it... and some of these items can be retrofit into an old rig...
1.) EFI - I will never run a carb'ed vehicle on purpose again (Bt/dt). If you have a clue troubleshooting EFI is straightforward enough. I mean really, the guys in the garages that deal with this stuff daily are not there because NASA is full. If they can deal with EFI so can you. EFI gets you automatic mixture control to compensate for altitude and temperature and as a result means the minimum amount of fuel required is burned. What's not to like?
2.) Prefer automatic but would consider a manual for the correct vehicle. Has to be an overdrive transmission whether manual or automatic.
3.) Lever shifted transfer case. Had a vehicle with solenoid driven transfer case shifting. I'll never tolerate that again.
4.) Air conditioning. I won't have a station wagon / estate vehicle without A/C. I will tolerate no A/C in a soft top vehicle.
5.) Proper three point seat belts for all four passengers. This is non-negotiable. I would retrofit this into an old vehicle if required. That includes putting a roll bar and three point seat belts into something like an old flat fender.
6.) Solid front axle. I've run both SFA and IFS multiple times. I will always insist on SFA going forward.
Things that are "modern" that I like but would not necessarily make one vehicle trump an older vehicle.
i.) Air bags. Pretty obvious, and I'm the type that feels naked without a seat belt. Every little bit helps in a crash.
ii.) Electric window lifts and power locks. Convenience is good.
iii.) OBD-II. Diagnostics are great.
"Modern" things I'm not keen on but will tolerate:
a.) Traction control. Retrofitting larger axles can be a PITA if you want to retain TCS. I don't have any experience with these systems or stuff like "hill descent control" on a truck. I'm guessing they are marginal but could save an unskilled or inattentive driver. On a car in a race scenario I will always turn it off. On a high powered street car I would leave it turned on when driving on public roads (see inattentive above).
b.) ABS. ABS is a great thing, in an on-road or racing situation it absolutely rocks. Problem is that most truck ABS systems completely suck. They are also a PITA to retain when doing an axle swap. My "non-car" friends hate the maintenance issues they generate. A friend has a Dodge Caravan (MY03?) and it seems every 9-12 months it is in the shop because the ABS idiot lights are lit up on the dash. I have a feeling he is being raped by the dealer for trivialities. Replacing a sensor takes what, $50 in parts and five minutes to swap?
c.) Automatic climate control. Some of these systems are a little nuts. Some are simple enough. Depends on the vehicle. I'm content with straightforward HVAC.
I keep waffling about the next vehicle. One part of me says FSJ the other says WJ. I've pretty much purged the desires for other vehicles. It's a good thing I don't have "real money" as I'd likely have a couple dozen vehicles if I could afford it. Amelda Marcos and her shoes would have nothing on me and cars. LOL
The FSJ is old fashioned and I'd likely swap in a 4.0/AW4 combo out of a late model XJ to get EFI, overdrive automatic and OBD-II. I'd likely buy a late 1980s FSJ to get the full window/lock power group and A/C.
If I got a WJ there wouldn't be any drivetrain stuff to do... Integrating the ABS with a rear axle swap (Ford 8.8"?) would be the only real issue. This wouldn't be new ground though - it's been done before and is reasonably well documented on the 'Net.
So, I would run an old vehicle without issues but that doesn't mean it would stay an "old" vehicle per se. The big thing that keeps old vehicles from being more common in this area is that we are in the rust belt. There just aren't that many old vehicles around or the ones that are around are not worth spending the time or money on because they are rust buckets. In my own case, if I go the FSJ route I'll likely be shopping in the S.W. for something to import.
$0.02
EDIT: Just realized this was posted in the Toyota section. While my posts ends being Jeep specific I think one could make the same type of comparisons between say an FJ60 and a LX470. How cool would a FJ60 with the drivetrain from a LX470 be?! Awesome.
I do however have a minimum "spec" that a machine has to have in order for me to consider running it... and some of these items can be retrofit into an old rig...
1.) EFI - I will never run a carb'ed vehicle on purpose again (Bt/dt). If you have a clue troubleshooting EFI is straightforward enough. I mean really, the guys in the garages that deal with this stuff daily are not there because NASA is full. If they can deal with EFI so can you. EFI gets you automatic mixture control to compensate for altitude and temperature and as a result means the minimum amount of fuel required is burned. What's not to like?
2.) Prefer automatic but would consider a manual for the correct vehicle. Has to be an overdrive transmission whether manual or automatic.
3.) Lever shifted transfer case. Had a vehicle with solenoid driven transfer case shifting. I'll never tolerate that again.
4.) Air conditioning. I won't have a station wagon / estate vehicle without A/C. I will tolerate no A/C in a soft top vehicle.
5.) Proper three point seat belts for all four passengers. This is non-negotiable. I would retrofit this into an old vehicle if required. That includes putting a roll bar and three point seat belts into something like an old flat fender.
6.) Solid front axle. I've run both SFA and IFS multiple times. I will always insist on SFA going forward.
Things that are "modern" that I like but would not necessarily make one vehicle trump an older vehicle.
i.) Air bags. Pretty obvious, and I'm the type that feels naked without a seat belt. Every little bit helps in a crash.
ii.) Electric window lifts and power locks. Convenience is good.
iii.) OBD-II. Diagnostics are great.
"Modern" things I'm not keen on but will tolerate:
a.) Traction control. Retrofitting larger axles can be a PITA if you want to retain TCS. I don't have any experience with these systems or stuff like "hill descent control" on a truck. I'm guessing they are marginal but could save an unskilled or inattentive driver. On a car in a race scenario I will always turn it off. On a high powered street car I would leave it turned on when driving on public roads (see inattentive above).
b.) ABS. ABS is a great thing, in an on-road or racing situation it absolutely rocks. Problem is that most truck ABS systems completely suck. They are also a PITA to retain when doing an axle swap. My "non-car" friends hate the maintenance issues they generate. A friend has a Dodge Caravan (MY03?) and it seems every 9-12 months it is in the shop because the ABS idiot lights are lit up on the dash. I have a feeling he is being raped by the dealer for trivialities. Replacing a sensor takes what, $50 in parts and five minutes to swap?
c.) Automatic climate control. Some of these systems are a little nuts. Some are simple enough. Depends on the vehicle. I'm content with straightforward HVAC.
I keep waffling about the next vehicle. One part of me says FSJ the other says WJ. I've pretty much purged the desires for other vehicles. It's a good thing I don't have "real money" as I'd likely have a couple dozen vehicles if I could afford it. Amelda Marcos and her shoes would have nothing on me and cars. LOL
The FSJ is old fashioned and I'd likely swap in a 4.0/AW4 combo out of a late model XJ to get EFI, overdrive automatic and OBD-II. I'd likely buy a late 1980s FSJ to get the full window/lock power group and A/C.
If I got a WJ there wouldn't be any drivetrain stuff to do... Integrating the ABS with a rear axle swap (Ford 8.8"?) would be the only real issue. This wouldn't be new ground though - it's been done before and is reasonably well documented on the 'Net.
So, I would run an old vehicle without issues but that doesn't mean it would stay an "old" vehicle per se. The big thing that keeps old vehicles from being more common in this area is that we are in the rust belt. There just aren't that many old vehicles around or the ones that are around are not worth spending the time or money on because they are rust buckets. In my own case, if I go the FSJ route I'll likely be shopping in the S.W. for something to import.
$0.02
EDIT: Just realized this was posted in the Toyota section. While my posts ends being Jeep specific I think one could make the same type of comparisons between say an FJ60 and a LX470. How cool would a FJ60 with the drivetrain from a LX470 be?! Awesome.
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