How much winch for a Disco?

[X-plorenow]

Thanks David, great info.

 

[Antichrist]

Hydro's will also work submerged better than electrics.

But won't work as well as electric when your engine dies because it was submerged.

 

[craig]

Yes. Using a snatch block changes the picture, and is needed in a lot of situations anyway because of angles.

You probably know this, but to clarify for everyone else reading this thread...

Using a pulley to redirect a winchline to improve the angle doesn't double the pulling power (no mechanical advantage). A pulley only offers a mechanical advantage if it doubles the line back to the pulling vehicle.

I like a worm drive winch for Expedition/Overland use because it is so reliable. With the right battery setup, you can winch all day back to back w/o any trouble. Works even if the motor is dead. Super reliable, and super strong. You can use it to lower yourself down a hill w/o fear of overheating. It's the kind of gear you know you can count on when everything else may be going wrong.

 

[David Harris]

But won't work as well as electric when your engine dies because it was submerged.

True. Can go as deep as your engine can go. With a diesel, it's submarine time . . . A winch is at bumper height. There are lots of times that the bumper can be submerged and the engine still runs fine, right?

 

[craig]

Engine's die for other reasons too. It's nice to be able to winch the vehicle to a safe position before working on it.

I slightly favor an electric worm drive winch, but really like the hydraulic winches. Either one is an excellent choice.

For a budget winch, the Superwinch EP9i is a stellar value. Solid planetary gear winch with an external brake to keep things cool when winching out.

 

[David Harris]

Works even if the motor is dead. Super reliable, and super strong. You can use it to lower yourself down a hill w/o fear of overheating. It's the kind of gear you know you can count on when everything else may be going wrong.

This is the advantage of electric. Works without the engine. However, if you have battery problems, like F&J had in the Congo, you're out of luck. Winches pull a lot of amps, so you really have to beef up the electrics if you want to do a lot of pulling.

 

[craig]

This is the advantage of electric. Works without the engine. However, if you have battery problems, like F&J had in the Congo, you're out of luck. Winches pull a lot of amps, so you really have to beef up the electrics if you want to do a lot of pulling.

Yep, which is why I wrote, "With the right battery setup..."

Best to bring two trucks with one of each. Or hydraulic on front and worm drive on the back?

I've heard setting up a hydraulic winch can be a little more challenging. Have you found that to be true?

 

[David Harris]

Yep, which is why I wrote, "With the right battery setup..."

Best to bring two trucks with one of each. Or hydraulic on front and worm drive on the back?

I've heard setting up a hydraulic winch can be a little more challenging. Have you found that to be true?

Hydro's are more complex. The simplest are the Mile Marker type set-ups which use the stock power steering pump. These work well depending on the specs of your pump, but are slow. The ultimate is a hydraulic pump driven off of a PTO from the transmission or transfer case. These require a separate fluid reservoir, etc. I've attached some diagrams of each arrangement. Here is a link to a great site from the UK that explains the options well. They live and breathe winches over there like no where else . . .

http://4x4winches.com/index.php?page=winch_systems.htm

David

 

[craig]

Thanks for the info.

 

[David Harris]

One other thing on electric winches. They can be very unreliable depending on what you get. I'm thinking especially of solenoids here. I've seen many cases where someone went to use their electric winch and it didn't work. High quality winches will have high quality solenoids, etc. So, what you think you are saving in a cheap winch may be nothing once you get out there and find that it's useless right when you really need it. Hydraulics are pretty bomb proof once set-up correctly. A top of the line high-capacity electric winch, like a Superwinch Husky will be only a little less expensive than a full hydro set-up.

David

 

[Paladin]

For a budget winch, the Superwinch EP9i is a stellar value. Solid planetary gear winch with an external brake to keep things cool when winching out.

And it comes with an Albright solenoid. And it's reasonably fast, pulls hard on the last wrap, and costs little more than an 8k winch.

http://www.winchdepot.com/Winches-W...8&t_s=300&t_pt=100702&t_pl=6429&t_pn=SWI09032

http://www.winchdepot.com/Winches-W...8&t_s=300&t_pt=100702&t_pl=6407&t_pn=WAR26502

http://www.winchdepot.com/Winches-W...&t_s=300&t_pt=100702&t_pl=6407&t_pn=WAR900560

$100 more than an M8000, $15 less than a Tabor 9k which is 30% slower.

 

[davekb3ejw]

when buying a winch,you definitely get what you pay for.when i got my front bumper,i ordered a smittybilt XRC10.was an inexpensive 10k winch.
Until it got swamped a few times where we play in NJ.then it failed.when i got home and pulled it apart,the motor was toast.yes they warrantied the parts but not the labor.they are an el cheapo entree level winch and u get what u pay for.
If i had known then what i know now.i would have gone with the Warn 9.5XP.
but,i know winches r like cars.everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

Good luck with your choice in winches

Dave

 

[Antichrist]

True. Can go as deep as your engine can go. With a diesel, it's submarine time . . . A winch is at bumper height. There are lots of times that the bumper can be submerged and the engine still runs fine, right?

Of course. I was just pointing out that each type has their particular weak point. Personally I have both PTO and electric winches. :sombrero:

For occasional use hooking up to the PS pump is ok, but if I was running a hydraulic winch on an expedition vehicle I'd definitely want a dedicated pump, or mechanical PTO like my Koenig.

 

[Nonimouse]

Mild correction/more info time

Superwinch EP9/EPi9
Superb kit. Made in China, designed in China (by a woman). Sold under about 20 brand names round the world including Superwinch Name. The Superwinch 8.5K is a T-max by the way

Anyone who slates off the top end Chinese and Taiwanese stuff either lives in cloud cuckoo land or has never used the stuff in anger. Even the cheap stuff is pretty good when tweaked.

Winching with no alternator supply to a battery mostly urban legend. Take an 8274/50 first year of manufacture with the X50 motor (the only warn motor to actually do what it says on the tin). At just below stall it will be drawing well over 400amps - even on no load it's pulling up to 70amps. When you run winches on dieing batteries you kill the motor.

Superwinch EP9's use Albright copies not the Big Kahoona. The best Solenoid pack is the Warn HD three piston unit

The best electric winch on the market is the KingOne TDS http://www.kingonewinch.com/Product.aspx?ProductsCateID=1631&CateID=1631
Designed by the same woman who designed the EP9/EP9i and EP9.5; she got rid of all the problems with the EP to build this baby.
Light, fast, massively powerful and so strong. It's also waterproof. Sold under the brand names of Goldfish and Maco
Check out what David Bowyer does to them...

I run a TDS 9.5, with a set of polished 173:1 gears, custom sun gear, 6.8hp/5000rpm motor (using Gigglepin motor mounts), 70mm2 feed, Warn HD solenoid and 'special' tie bars.

Oh an yes we do live and breath winches over here

 

[Mike_rupp]

Hydro's are more complex. The simplest are the Mile Marker type set-ups which use the stock power steering pump. These work well depending on the specs of your pump, but are slow. The ultimate is a hydraulic pump driven off of a PTO from the transmission or transfer case. These require a separate fluid reservoir, etc. I've attached some diagrams of each arrangement. Here is a link to a great site from the UK that explains the options well. They live and breathe winches over there like no where else . . .

http://4x4winches.com/index.php?page=winch_systems.htm

David

The MMs are pretty simple on a D2, but not quite so on a D1. The D1 power steering pump only puts out 1100 psi, so that 9k winch would only be a ~6k winch on a D1.

In order to make a MM work as it is designed, the power steering pump needs to put out 1500 psi. The problem then is that the steering box would be in trouble with the additional psi, so a relief valve needs to be plumbed in after the winch and before the steering box. I found a guy in the UK who reworks the ZF pump to make about 1800psi. He also sold me a relief valve that was dialed in to blow off pressure over 1100psi.

The whole install wasn't a nightmare, but it isn't as simple as an electrical winch: http://discoweb.org/hydraulicpump/index.htm

I've been very pleased with my setup. It is slow but steady. I think the speed in probably a little slower than a RE12000, which gives you an idea of the line speed. I don't compete, so I never have cared about line speed.

It is fun to see the reaction of people that hear the hydraulic winch. People are so used to hearing the electrical motors moaning and groaning. The hydraulic winch is barely audible.