Learning a lot here. Never really went overboard with the soldering, but I used to do a lot of electronic work, so Im very quick with the solder gun and don't over do it. Many people I see trying to use solder as a mechanical bond. Its for electrical continuity, not to hold up your wires. Correct bundling of looms and zip ties go a long way for mechanical support.
How to Modify Vehicle Wiring - Starting with the DO NOTs
- Thread starter Big_Geek
- Start date
4Rocker
Observer
Sold!
Big_Geek
Drop Bear
About five minutes when I'm not taking pictures for a forum post.
I will absolutely agree with the crimp-only method on large guage wiring with copper terminal lugs. Since copper is a noble metal, it actually welds into a solid piece under pressure and your lug is electrically and mechanically secured to the wire.
UK4X4
Expedition Leader
"No doubt manufactures do what is productive, but there is merit in how a hand built wiring loom in a 750k T.T truck uses crimp not solder"
the main reason they are crimped and have connectors so that parts of looms can be easily replaced during pit time - or on a breakdown
they also don't buy $2 for 40 crimps from harbor freight !
Ref the method shown on the previous page
Hell thats way better than some crimp onlys i've seen !
But be serious now electrically its fine- certainly won't fall off- its insulated and supported at the joint
If we are worried about suport a second layer of heat shrink can be used- like most things some heat shrink is better than others,
if he had solder leakage up the cable which is probable as you can see from the melted insulation, at least he's been generous with the heat shrink length and its supported.
the ears were bent- yep but now they are soldered- so their not going anywhere its a homogenous joint
I doubt it would fail any time soon.
Could he have used a high quality military spec crimp as used in the space shuttle and a pair of 200 dollar crimps - yes
Do both connections conduct electricity - yes
Would it fail in 10 years doing a 2 day trail ride per month - probably not
Mission crital and aircraft electrics come under deep scrutiny- of course they do - the high frequency vibrations caused by get engines are way harder on work hardening and connection failures.
They don't use soldered joints for that reason - a fully flexible joint is prefered- same as using mutistrand wire rather rather than solid core
Its like a long time ago thinking it would improve bare stranded wire and screw terminals people soldered wires before putting into a screw terminal- experience over the years showed failures due its ridgity and non elastic properties
these days a crimp ferrule is used, to keep the wires together- and secured the crimp has multiple pressure points and stays elastic under the screw thread tension.
In each case wether soldered or crimped its the quality of the job that counts and prevents failures down the road
the main reason they are crimped and have connectors so that parts of looms can be easily replaced during pit time - or on a breakdown
they also don't buy $2 for 40 crimps from harbor freight !
Ref the method shown on the previous page
Hell thats way better than some crimp onlys i've seen !
But be serious now electrically its fine- certainly won't fall off- its insulated and supported at the joint
If we are worried about suport a second layer of heat shrink can be used- like most things some heat shrink is better than others,
if he had solder leakage up the cable which is probable as you can see from the melted insulation, at least he's been generous with the heat shrink length and its supported.
the ears were bent- yep but now they are soldered- so their not going anywhere its a homogenous joint
I doubt it would fail any time soon.
Could he have used a high quality military spec crimp as used in the space shuttle and a pair of 200 dollar crimps - yes
Do both connections conduct electricity - yes
Would it fail in 10 years doing a 2 day trail ride per month - probably not
Mission crital and aircraft electrics come under deep scrutiny- of course they do - the high frequency vibrations caused by get engines are way harder on work hardening and connection failures.
They don't use soldered joints for that reason - a fully flexible joint is prefered- same as using mutistrand wire rather rather than solid core
Its like a long time ago thinking it would improve bare stranded wire and screw terminals people soldered wires before putting into a screw terminal- experience over the years showed failures due its ridgity and non elastic properties
these days a crimp ferrule is used, to keep the wires together- and secured the crimp has multiple pressure points and stays elastic under the screw thread tension.
In each case wether soldered or crimped its the quality of the job that counts and prevents failures down the road
SoCalMonty
Explorer
Oh yeah, I wouldn't suggest building an entire wire loom using their stuff...but for small segments, splices, or anything you might need to remove/reinstall, there's nothing better IMHO.
The standard Posi-Locks are about $1 each, shipped (20 pack, $13 + $7 shipping). But given the fact they are reusable (I re-purpose mine often), they are worth the money for my intents and purposes (vehicle lighting, elec fan installs, aftermarket vehicle electronics, etc).
verdesardog
Explorer
That looks pretty good except since you are soldering the connection you need an anti wicking tool to prevent wicking solder up under the insulation.....http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/awg-18-anti-wicking-tool-18-ga/p/113-275.
Or a pair of needle nose pliers can be used if you are carefull.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
I've found that a lot depends on just *correctly* using what you've got. Even the El Cheapo connectors, matching El Cheapo crimper and a few wraps of El Cheapo vinyl tape CAN get the job done and last a good long while...if done properly.
I'd say the majority of the problems with El Cheapo wiring that I've seen resulted simply from someone sticking the connector in the crimper the wrong way:
OR from being limp-wristed and just not crimping the bloody thing hard enough. One nice thing about ratcheting crimpers is that they usually have lever action force multipliers so that even your 12 y.o. daughter can sqeeze out a crimp like a Real Man (tm).
More than once over the last 30 years I've had to grab an El Cheapo wiring kit off the shelf at the nearest auto parts store (or use whatever the guy broken down on the side of road had laying in the bottom of his tool box) and just do what had to be done to get a vehicle moving on the down the road.
I can't recall the last time one of my connections failed - even the quickie jobs I had to do with locally acquired El Cheapo stuff I'd occasionally see still going strong years later.
But that's prolly cause I eats me spinach:
I'd say the majority of the problems with El Cheapo wiring that I've seen resulted simply from someone sticking the connector in the crimper the wrong way:
OR from being limp-wristed and just not crimping the bloody thing hard enough. One nice thing about ratcheting crimpers is that they usually have lever action force multipliers so that even your 12 y.o. daughter can sqeeze out a crimp like a Real Man (tm).
More than once over the last 30 years I've had to grab an El Cheapo wiring kit off the shelf at the nearest auto parts store (or use whatever the guy broken down on the side of road had laying in the bottom of his tool box) and just do what had to be done to get a vehicle moving on the down the road.
I can't recall the last time one of my connections failed - even the quickie jobs I had to do with locally acquired El Cheapo stuff I'd occasionally see still going strong years later.
But that's prolly cause I eats me spinach:
southpier
Expedition Leader
that's a good tip.
picture ... well, let's just say it makes me a little uncomfortable on a few levels . . . not the least being in a little Deliverance porch banjo pickin' way.
but back to crimpers. I did a search for ratcheting double crimpers and the costs went from 11.95 to 256.00 knipex units.
Q: what's a good quality pair for the occasional weekend crimper gonna cost? 65? brand?
thanks
picture ... well, let's just say it makes me a little uncomfortable on a few levels . . . not the least being in a little Deliverance porch banjo pickin' way.
but back to crimpers. I did a search for ratcheting double crimpers and the costs went from 11.95 to 256.00 knipex units.
Q: what's a good quality pair for the occasional weekend crimper gonna cost? 65? brand?
thanks
Fireman78
Expedition Leader
You know what I would absolutely LOVE is a class on this subject at Overland Expo. A series class for beginners to vehicle electric stuff. A hands on class where we actually use soldering guns and connectors and heat tubing etc. Its the only part of working on my truck that intimidates the heck out of me.
Sent from highest tree in the woods trying to get a signal
Sent from highest tree in the woods trying to get a signal
Ozrockrat
Expedition Leader
Honestly any of the ratchet ones that do not release until they have fully crimped and do both crimps at once will be better than the simple single ones. These ones off Amazon would probably be OK S&G Tool Aid 18900 Professional Ratcheting Terminal Crimper or even up to these JT&T Products (5011F) - Ratchet Terminal Crimpe
The other bit of gear you should consider is a set of wire strippers. This is where most people make their first mistakes (cutting or marking strands) Something like these Irwin Industrial Tools 2078300 8-Inch Self-Adjusting Wire Stripper Just do not use the crimper on them unless you really have to.
Ozrockrat
Expedition Leader
Oh and by the way I am a hypocrite. While I always have ratchet crimpers in the toolbox of the ambo I do carry a gas powered soldering iron and the trimmings with me on motorcycle trips. It is smaller, lighter and most of the problems I have had with motorcycle electrics have come down to issues in the wiring harness. Would I use it in preference to using pliers to crimp lugs. In a heart beat.
Weller PSI100K Super-Pro Self-Igniting Cordless Butane Soldering Iron Kit
Weller PSI100K Super-Pro Self-Igniting Cordless Butane Soldering Iron Kit
