IFS, Sway Bars, and the new Tacoma

[slosurfer]

I have bumpstops on my '05.

I know there is a lower bumpstop that is for compression, where is the upper bumpstops that stop the droop?

 

[slooowr6]

1 Leaf.

I was trying to keep the stock height but ended up with 2" of lift (that's with my fiberglass shell, wooden platform and 200+ lbs of camping gear). No more bottoming out when loaded for a trip. For $77.50 it's the best money I've spent on my Taco.

Thanks! Any idea how thick is the 3 leafs?

 

[taco chaser]

Yea but removing the sway bar doesn't really increase your droop, at least not on my 03. The droop is limited by the upper arm, and internal bump stops in the shocks, it will only go down so far. I have seen this first hand on my truck with four different set ups all with the sway bar removed. I had the stock coils with Billy HD's which flexed like mad but it was unsafe at highway speeds. Next I went over to the Tundra coils and the HD's. That set up gave little rebound as the coils were constantly pushing against the internal bump stops, and the spring rate was too heavy and wouldn't compress much at all. Then I went back to the stock coils and added a set of preload adjusting HD's. That set up flexed like stink, rode a little better on the highway compared to the first one but the droop was still limited as they were the exact same shock on the inside. Now I am on DR's and I get a decent amount of flex on the upstroke and about the same on the rebound as the other set ups. DR's have some dampening on the internal bumo stop that may allow it to droop a little more than the HD's. One thing is certain, when you take the weight off the front end rapidly like off a small jump, it is not harsh like the others. Removing my sway bar did smooth things out considerably as it alowed the front end to work independantly. I would imagine there is no difference in the 05's and up. Are you going to gain a ton of flex by yanking it? Not really but you will increase the drivability factor over washboards and the like. The front end only has so much to give.

How come none of you guy's run the Total Chaos set up that replaces your upper arms and halfshafts with better one's that are designed for offroad instead of the hwy. All I was trying to explain was the reasons for running with or without and I did suggest a torsion bar set up, which is more flexable than a solid sway bar and would not require any kind of disconnect.

 

[DaveInDenver]

It's just how CV's function, they have maybe 30 t0 35 degrees of travel built into them and anything after that is binding and can cause failure. That's all I'm saying, not trying to discourage, just trying to give info, pro's and con's.

The sway bars probably do limit CV travel to some extent, but the bump stops are the travel limiters. The CV joint should be able to handle the movement that the stock suspension has between those. I took my sway bar off my truck about 8 years ago and haven't looked back. I also run low profile bump stops on both the top and bottom (which are about half as thick as stock). Granted my torsion bar IFS is different, but I hit both upper and lower sides and I'm not exploding CVs (which are now 17 years old with a locked front diff on 33" tires). I would think a stock truck might sway more without the sway bars attached, but with a properly sprung and valved front end I think my truck rides better without the sway bar attached personally. But do keep in mind that my top speed is practically 70~75MPH and I rarely drive past 65MPH...

 

[slosurfer]

The sway bars probably do limit CV travel to some extent, but the bump stops are the travel limiters. .

This is what I was thinking (as it is true for our older IFS rigs), but I looked with a flashlight real quick last night at our '07 Taco and I don't see any upper bumpstops that stop the downtravel. I haven't been able to learn very much about our new trucks suspension, so I'm confused at to what exactly limits the down travel on it. Or did I just not see the upper bumpstops last night in the dark?

 

[7wt]

How come none of you guy's run the Total Chaos set up that replaces your upper arms and halfshafts with better one's that are designed for offroad instead of the hwy. All I was trying to explain was the reasons for running with or without and I did suggest a torsion bar set up, which is more flexable than a solid sway bar and would not require any kind of disconnect.

For me it is a matter of not needing it or possibly buying trouble down the road. I try to keep my truck as reliable as possible. If something goes wrong with my DR's, I could either replace them or go back to stock. I simply don't need that type of set up and complexity with the fiberglass fenders and such. I have seen a Total Chaos set up in person and it made me drool for sure but my guess is that my truck will still be on the road long after his has seen the end if for no other reasons than the type of use he put his through vs what I do. I dabbled with the idea of the DR uppers but decided to keep what I have due to the limits of the design. I shouldn't ever have to worry about over stressing my front end. If I ever come into more money than I know what to do with, I will probably order a set of those super cool uppers. I just wished they weren't so flashy.

 

[Bergger]

I may be wrong, and please let me know if I am, but I've always thought sway bar disconnects were useless on IFS vehicles. You might get a small amount of downward articulation but what good is that if you have no traction with that tire. The only tire that will have traction on an IFS vehicle is the compressed one so it really does not matter if the other tire is airborn or slightly on the ground. It'll just spin. I'd just keep the sway bar connected for better highway control. Now if you had a front locker then that might change everything.

 

[7wt]

I may be wrong, and please let me know if I am, but I've always thought sway bar disconnects were useless on IFS vehicles. You might get a small amount of downward articulation but what good is that if you have no traction with that tire. The only tire that will have traction on an IFS vehicle is the compressed one so it really does not matter if the other tire is airborn or slightly on the ground. It'll just spin. I'd just keep the sway bar connected for better highway control. Now if you had a front locker then that might change everything.

You are right in a sense but it isn't useless. It allows the front to track better cruising down a dirt road as each wheel can do what it needs to without being tied to the other. You do gain a slight increase in flex but it isn't much. These front ends just aren't made for silly flex. They are fantastic at what they do well however. Also, you have to take in to account what the rear is doing. On my truck for instance, it is almost impossible to hang a rear tire, the springs just flex that much. So I pretty much always have three wheels on the ground, most times it is four because the rears flex enough to allow the front to tip over to the point that both of the front tires are touching something.

 

[slosurfer]

I may be wrong, and please let me know if I am, but I've always thought sway bar disconnects were useless on IFS vehicles. You might get a small amount of downward articulation but what good is that if you have no traction with that tire. The only tire that will have traction on an IFS vehicle is the compressed one so it really does not matter if the other tire is airborn or slightly on the ground. It'll just spin. I'd just keep the sway bar connected for better highway control. Now if you had a front locker then that might change everything.

There is some truth to that as far as the traction on the compressed side. On the other hand, your vehicle stays more level longer. For example, with the swaybar connected (this is on my '93), as soon as a put a front tire on any kind of rock, it immediately lifts the whole front end up including the other tire, therefore you only have traction on the one tire anyways.

Same rock with the swaybar disconnected, when I put the tire on the rock, the vehicle stays level longer, because that side is allowed to move upwards independently till the lower control arm gets to the bumpstop, then it lifts the whole front of the vehicle upward.

So, it isn't necessarily about the added downtravel, I have found that I am able to take almost full advantage of my uptravel with IFS disconnected on my '93. I haven't messed with the 07 taco yet, but I know for sure it helped my '93, as I have run many trails with it both connected and disconnected.

 

[Dave Bennett]

:lurk:

 

[Jacket]

I've had my sway bar removed since last spring, and I think it has made a difference in keeping both front tires in contact with the ground. As far as on road performance, if there is a difference without it, I haven't noticed since the first day I removed it. I told myself last spring that I'd reinstall it this winter, but I can't see myself doing it now. The truck drives fine without it.

There are a ton of posts in here already, but I guess I'll just add some thoughts as well.

- The comparison pictures on the first page aren't a reasonable comparison. You need to have two trucks running the EXACT same line to properly compare suspension characteristics
- The fundamental design of the 05+ front suspension is the same as the 04- Tacomas, so I doubt you will see a significant difference in performance.
- I find that the length and long wheelbase of my truck are far more limiting factors for off-road performance than the performance of my front suspension.
- As far as damaging the front suspension components, everything we do to modify these suspensions is going to have some negative affect on wear and tear, especially lifting and changing the CV angles. Removing the sway bar will probably also have an affect, but I'd consider it minor compared to some of the other modifications.

This is probably the best picture I have of my front susp. flex:

but I think that doc's picture is a better demonstration of the "reach" that our IFS can produce.

Another option to improve front suspension performance is a new set of UCA's. The Total Chaos brand seems to be the most popular and best fit/price point for our trucks, and you'll get some improved performance from that product. But as others have stated, ultimately the bump stops have the final say.

 

[Overland Hadley]

:lurk:

This is all very interesting.

 

[slosurfer]

But as others have stated, ultimately the bump stops have the final say.

Where is the bumpstop that stops the downtravel? I just crawled under mine and there are only bumpstops that stop uptravel. Is it the shock extending all the way that acts as the bumpstop?

 

[7wt]

Where is the bumpstop that stops the downtravel? I just crawled under mine and there are only bumpstops that stop uptravel. Is it the shock extending all the way that acts as the bumpstop?

The upper arms will limit the down travel as well as the shock it's self. Jack up the front, take the shock and coil assembly out and see how hard it is to extend the front end. Matter of fact, you generally have to use a bottle jack to extend the downtravel enough to get the coil assembly back in. The after market UCA's don't have this but they still only allow about an extra inch of down but you have to have a shock like an extended travel DR to take advantage of it.

 

[Ron B]

I don't drive a toyota, but I just added air suspension to my hummer (ifs/irs) and lost the front sway bar. The a-arm bushings limited the travel to some extent, but In my truck the shocks were the primary limiting factor for the droop/extension. I had to install limit straps as well as relocate the shocks. I don't notice a difference in handling (excepting the obvious improvement of the bags) but it's a heavy truck and I don't drive it like the race car it's not. What is nice is the several extra inches of extension I can now get. My first boo-boo was allowing too much droop...it was too much angle for the boots and they were pulled off the inner cv housings (the cv's were fine). With the adjustable clevis/straps I can make sure it doesn't droop too far and suck it in as the straps stretch from use.

sorry if you think this is unrelated, I just found this thread interesting to read as I'm playing with a similar suspension set-up. It's a learning experience (or is it expense?) so I enjoy hearing what others find.

now...I just have to figure out bumpstops!

ron