Overland Hadley
on a journey
Wow, the H1 has IFS/IRS! I would have thought the H2 or the H3, but it is interesting that the H1 has IFS/IRS.
IFS, Sway Bars, and the new Tacoma
- Thread starter Schattenjager
- Start date
Schattenjager
Expedition Leader
Test failed
I went on a bit of an experimental trip today - lots of ruts and rocks. With the sway bars in place the articulation was minimal. The wheels did "dip" pretty well. Upward articulation - what I am after here - was pretty much non-existent. The low parts of the trail were absorbed OK - the high spots (rocks, burms etc.) were where the rig got tossed around like a kernel of corn in a hot deep frier. :Mechanic:
So, I made my way back to the beginning, removed the sway-bars (the anti-fun thing to do at a trail head, BTW) and did the exact trail again. Results? SEE ABOVE. Total waste of time. The ride home was a bit strange sans bars, but I have now replaced them. The highway ride did not suffer, so to speak, it was just different. Barely - but noticeable.
Conclusion - the rear end is the saving grace of these new gen Tacomas. It flexes quite well, and with a locking diff, can push the truck around at will. I think that the reason the truck rides so harshly "in the rough" is that the rear end is compliant and the front end is an ice-breaker's bow - making the chassis work over time to keep things together. As someone else pointed out - the driver makes all the difference. While I am in no way an expert trail driver, I do know what I like and what I don't. i love my truck. I hate its limited abilities. Everything is a compromise, no?
This is just my experience. This boards responses prompted the test. Granted I am comparing my Land Rover Experiences in Colorado and Alaska to this Tacoma. I picked the Tacoma because of it's legendary ability (oops) and it's undeniable reliability and toughness. I am now going to search for a Range Rover Classic and transplant a Toyota V8 and tranny. Maybe...
:rappel:
Thanks for the input! It prompted me into a test I would have otherwise theorized.
I went on a bit of an experimental trip today - lots of ruts and rocks. With the sway bars in place the articulation was minimal. The wheels did "dip" pretty well. Upward articulation - what I am after here - was pretty much non-existent. The low parts of the trail were absorbed OK - the high spots (rocks, burms etc.) were where the rig got tossed around like a kernel of corn in a hot deep frier. :Mechanic:
So, I made my way back to the beginning, removed the sway-bars (the anti-fun thing to do at a trail head, BTW) and did the exact trail again. Results? SEE ABOVE. Total waste of time. The ride home was a bit strange sans bars, but I have now replaced them. The highway ride did not suffer, so to speak, it was just different. Barely - but noticeable.
Conclusion - the rear end is the saving grace of these new gen Tacomas. It flexes quite well, and with a locking diff, can push the truck around at will. I think that the reason the truck rides so harshly "in the rough" is that the rear end is compliant and the front end is an ice-breaker's bow - making the chassis work over time to keep things together. As someone else pointed out - the driver makes all the difference. While I am in no way an expert trail driver, I do know what I like and what I don't. i love my truck. I hate its limited abilities. Everything is a compromise, no?
This is just my experience. This boards responses prompted the test. Granted I am comparing my Land Rover Experiences in Colorado and Alaska to this Tacoma. I picked the Tacoma because of it's legendary ability (oops) and it's undeniable reliability and toughness. I am now going to search for a Range Rover Classic and transplant a Toyota V8 and tranny.
Maybe...:rappel:
Thanks for the input! It prompted me into a test I would have otherwise theorized.
Dave Bennett
Adventurist
... did I forget to mention I also lost about 50 lbs up front by losing the swaybar? :shakin:
The only way to gain any up travel with this IFS is probably via new UCA's or... SAS!
The only way to gain any up travel with this IFS is probably via new UCA's or... SAS!
Overland Hadley
on a journey
Schattenjager said:
Did you take pictures at the same spot on the trail with the sway-bars on, and then with the sway-bars off? I would be interested in seeing the difference, even if it is only a small difference.
Schattenjager
Expedition Leader
No camera today. Suffice it to say that I would need a micrometer to measure the difference. Perhaps if I take a trail with a new gen Tacoma sans sway-bars I can get some comparison photos. I won't go through the hassle again on my rig, however.
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ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
They've always been that way. AMC model 20 diffs (in aluminum cases) too!Overland Hadley said:
In reading this thread I'm unclear on if you're hitting the up-travel limiting bumps or are just feeling the results of a high rate coil spring?
A longer, lower rate coil spring would yield the same ride height and be more supple over the high points, IF there is the up-travel available to configure this way.
teotwaki
Excelsior!
Bergger said:
Toyota IFS vehicles such as 4Runner, FJC, Sequoia and Tacoma (IIRC) have a computer setup to stop the wheelspin called Automatic Traction (ATRAC). If a tire is in the air the ABS system is used to engage/pulse the brakes on the spinning wheel causing the power to go to the wheel on the ground. It works extremely well.
Dave Bennett
Adventurist
teotwaki said:
ATRAC is a neat system and works well in most cases.
Note: Not standard on all models - my 05 Tacoma does not have ATRAC.
Schattenjager
Expedition Leader
ditto
Photog
Explorer
ntsqd said:
I don't think they read the part where you said "H1". A real HUMMV.
I think you have naild this. When we lift our IFS rigs, we use the springs offered by the aftermarket. These tend to be higher rate springs, and a little longer too. This provides lift and extra load carrying ability. Without the extra weight, it will be very stiff. The solution is a longer spring, with the factory spring rate. The extra length will provide increaded ride height, and the stock spring rate, will take less force to move the wheel through the range of articulation. If it was set up this way, you would notice a large difference without the swaybar.
If you have stiffer springs, and don't have any negative effects without the swaybar, leave it off; it is adding no value. The swaybar forces the body to move, when one wheel is put in compression. There is no reason to engage the body or the opposite-side springs, in the articulation of one wheel. The idea of IFS not acting any better without a swaybar is total BS.
The droop limits on the new Tacomas/4Runners are the upper control arm balljoints. The balljoint runs out or rotation, before the CVs have problems. The balljoints also run out or rotation, before the shocks bottom out. If you would like to verify this,
1) jack up the frame, until the front tires come off the ground,
2) remove tires,
3) unbolt the swaybar,
4) put a jack under the lower control arm for support,
5) unbolt the lower ball joint (2 bolts),
6) now lower the supporting jack.
You will notice the shock and lower control arm continue down much further, before the shock is at full extension. The upper balljoint was holding the entire suspension at the original stopping point. Note: This process is also the easiest way to swap springs & shocks.
The UniBall UCAs allow more articulation of the UCA. Now the internal bumstops of the shocks, will limit the down travel. If you go past this point, the CVs will start to give you problems. One drawback to the UniBall UCAs is they tend to squeek, and are a high maintenance item.
Sorry for the length of this post. There were a lot of comments to respond to.
Cheers!
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tacollie
Glamper
Mine is an 02 so I realize it is a little different. With my sway bar off I can stuff one tire while the other droops. I could never do that before. It helps a lot offroad, but is will never be a solid axle. Also, I ran OME before my SAWS and it was unstable on the trail with the sway bar disconnected because of the weight of my bumper and winch. The spring rate was to light. With the SAWS it is a completely different truck. I love it. My .02 on the issue.
