In search of the "perfect" camper frame

[IdaSHO]

Thanks for the post skipperted

Unfortunately under floor heating is not an option. One objective for this camper is simplicity to increase reliability, and limiting the number of systems on-board is my way of doing it.

Thanks for the suggestion though. It is a good one, and one I had actually considered early on. Although, I HAVE considered one of these to run off shore power when parked...

I doubt Ill go that route though. A pad like that under a wood floor just doesnt seem like a good idea
Plus, they are designed to heat soak a ceramic or concrete floor to hold heat.

Do you have any photos of your rig? Id love to see another steel/wood camper! :ylsmoke:

 

[Byrdseye]

I just received my weekly "spam" from JD and thought of this thread...... http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1269&campaign=email021912........
I think your steel/wood frame will work just fine as long as you keep corrosion and rot at bay. I've had very good luck with epoxy steel primers and now prefer it over powder coating as it's easy to grind off and weld for repairs. As long as the steel is very clean before painting it does a remarkable job of preventing rust. As for wood, the cold molded boat builders have great luck with these penetrating epoxies on their builds. Looking forward to watching your rig come together
(I know that many feel that composite foam construction is the only way to build a camper..........and in many ways they are right. However, the build process is a big part of the experience and I for one hate the toxicity of vinyl/polyester/epoxy resins and the acetone or styrene solvents. Then there is the mask wearing and itchiness of the glass fibers when you sand....)

 

[tamangel]

... I shall be building a new truck soon and will still keep to this method. ....

looking forward to your postings on your new rig..

Mike

 

[IdaSHO]

I think Ive been reading too many discussions on boat building forums for the past couple of weeks...

Im itching (pun intended) to glass, epoxy coat, and paint the entire thing now....

Comments? My only concern is strength of critical joints in the plywood skin, and epoxy+ flex. Im not certain it has enough give to do it without cracking.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Now THAT ^^ is ironic.

Personally I do not have any understanding of the process of glass either. One of the concerns I would immediately have is how to make a nice, smooth, flat surface.

Someone mentioned above that you can use some "Great Stuff", flatten it, indent it a touch, and you can patch. That makes perfect sense, but how do you get the thing right when you are building. Do you just frame and foam first, and then come back and put the glass on second? This seems unlikely to me.

Ah well

Personally I like the glass, and the Nida/Rinokore products, but just buying an old freezer box sure sounds a lot easier, and ready to go.

 

[pods8]

Since you're not nearly as critical on the weight it appears I will caution that glassing the exterior is time consuming based on my experience... Might pan out easier to get commercially produced FRP panels and bond those on as the skin. Then if you wanted to glass up the corners to seal them/strengthen things you'd rough up that area of the skin and hand lay up the glass but taper the plys as you go away from the joint. Then with a little fairing/sanding work it should blend in fairly smooth.

Personally I do not have any understanding of the process of glass either. One of the concerns I would immediately have is how to make a nice, smooth, flat surface.

Someone mentioned above that you can use some "Great Stuff", flatten it, indent it a touch, and you can patch. That makes perfect sense, but how do you get the thing right when you are building. Do you just frame and foam first, and then come back and put the glass on second? This seems unlikely to me.

Start with a nice smooth flat surface which means fairing out the core. Then consider using peel ply over the exterior to help fill in the weave. Still will probably need some fairing work though, I'll know more when I get to that stage on mine and hit it with some primer to get some perspective on the surface appearance.


I'm not sure where great stuff comes into play here (other than filling some gaps between the framing/foam?). But yes if you're going to glass the exterior of a wood frame camper with foam w/o any paneling between the glass and foam you need to glue up the wood/foam into one piece and then fair out the surface before glassing it.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Sorry, I did not mean the brand great stuff, just using it as a general term meaning the spray in closed cell foam insulation. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[pods8]

Sorry, I did not mean the brand great stuff, just using it as a general term meaning the spray in closed cell foam insulation. Sorry for the confusion.

I knew what you meant, I'm still confused on how it comes into play in making a smooth surface. Or where you talking for some other application?

 

[Ford Prefect]

Ah,

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that if you gouge a hole in the side of the truck you can just cut away the excess, fill the gap with the foam, level it off, take out a touch more to have a recess, and then fill it in with glass.

So my question was meaning do you frame the truck, foam the truck, and then glass it, or how would one go about doing the glass? I guess I also question what one could put it on to be able to remove it later. OR does one just frame it, side it with wood, and then glass the wood? I have seen that done in the past, but I thought that the argument was to remove all the wood from the construction of the rig.

At some point (I am sure in the too distant future) I would like to build my own truck, so I am just learning what I can when I can.


By the way IDASHO,

Did yo uever consider BusKote? That stuff is an insulative paint that goes down about 1 cm thick, and is supposed to be incredibly resilient. Just a thought for you on the paint. That one has been on my list for some time as the possible choice for me.

Regards,
Brian

 

[pods8]

Oh okay if you're filling a big gouge you could either shoot some spray foam in or just rough out a piece of block foam and use an epoxy slurry to glue it in. Small gap just use some heavily thickened epoxy slurry. Once dried, for either, you'd trim/sand the excess and then feather in a depression over that plus into the surrounding area so when you laid the overlapping fiberglass on the skins it doesn't really stand proud of the surface. With multiple plys of different amounts of overlap you can feather in the transition. Afterwards you'd need to do some fairing/feathering work on the exterior before repainting, depending on the paint used and how forgiving it visually is this would probably be the difficult part. However anything you were patching would have the same challenges if you couldn't just replace a section of it.

If you're using a wood frame with fiberglass skins I'd think frame it. Bond foamboard in between the framing and fill any gaps. Then fair the surface smooth and then lay down the glass. Basically what I'm doing with mine except I'm using some wood strips to help shape things and they're not really intended as a structural frame.

 

[IdaSHO]

Im still toying with epoxy/fiberglass as an exterior shell.

I see two ways of doing it.

1. complete skeleton skinned with plywood as originally planned. But epoxy coating the entire thing. This would include glassing all plywood joints on the exterior, and a completely encapsulating the framework and inside of the skins. Then the entire shell would be painted.
This would be VERY strong, but would add a significant amount of money (lots of epoxy) and a good deal of labor.

2. skinning the skeleton with FRP ( no plywood), glassing the joints, and painted. Much easier and faster, but also not nearly as strong, nor as resilient to damage as a good marine plywood.


Either way is considerable more work and more $$ than my plan to simply coat the exteriorr (and interior) of the plywood shell and skeleton.



Brian, thats the first Ive every heard of "bus cote". I had to google it. It looks to be very similar to Gaco. It is an acrylic elastomeric. It would probably work (and is much cheaper) but I can not find it available in anything but bright white. Gaco comes in a variety of tans and browns, exactly what I need.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Yes, I have only seen it in bright white as well, but it seems like one of the web pages implied that one could color tint it much in the same way any typical paint is tinted. Might be worth calling them up and asking. Then again I was good with white, so...

 

[MickWanaBe]

Hi to all,

Have read thru the posts, am in Oz and intended to hit the outback, have been outback on some rough corrugated tracks and understand the options discussed.
How about a minimal gusseted steel frame encased in "bondor" 50mm steel clad insulated panels, ala refrigeration panels at 10kg/mtr.

MIckWanaBe

 

[IdaSHO]

Seeing as this may as well be my "build" thread, Ill bump this one up with some vehicle updates...

I have begun the rehab and modification of the flatbed. It will be getting a 3-point pivot mount, and looking at it close, I think I might be able to lower it 3-4 inches. This will dramatically lower the COG, but will also play into my camper plans. Once the flatbed is finalized, I can push on with the camper plans.

Starting with some flex tests to see just how much the bed flexes with the chassis...

Then the tear down begun

All the deck boards were removed.

Notice all the the catch-all spots in this bed. Im still working on an idea to fix this. Right now Im thinking expanding spray foam to fill the cavities of the steel once all welding and painting is done.

Then it was a visit to the cash wash for a cleaning. $15 worth of pressure washing later, the bed was clean (enough for modification), removed, and ready.

 

[IdaSHO]

The truck was cleaned well too. The chassis and underbody will also get fresh paint.

Notice the mounts it was using. Welded right to the chassis. Damn miracle it didnt cause problems. Ive had more than 4,000 lbs in the back of this truck more than a couple times....

More to come... :ylsmoke: