INEOS Grenadier

[MarcusBrody]

Ha! Yeah my "Overland" accounts (Defender2.net, here, and OverlandBound) all use the same screen name. There's no "GrenadierFans.net" yet that I've found so I sort of sussed out where the best info was, and Defender2.net has some great stuff. For my needs I was comparing the new Defender to the Gren -- they both achieve a very similar outcome (1 ton payload wagon 4x4), but they do it in very different ways -- Defender relies on the latest and greatest, where as the Gren relies on the best version of the tried-and-true. I know which one I can fix the easiest so that has greatly informed my choice. After a year+ of evaluating the Defender, I'd love one as a Daily Driver, but it's firmly in second place compared to the Grenadier for me.

I hope that the Grenadier comes together in terms of being the best version of the tried and true. It seems like it has the potential to, but until we see exactly how well those systems work together I won't be totally unconcerned given it's the first vehicle from the manufacturer. It's not like the old Defender was perfectly reliable. It was just fixable.

It sounds like you are using it in remote areas professionally and that's a different use case than mine. Whatever I end up with with be very much a life style vehicle, so I don't NEED it to do anything specifically. I live outside of Las Vegas though, so there are basically endless places to explore off road/on rough dirt roads. Both something like the Grenadier/Defender/Rivian would be fun for that. On day exploration/local camping trips, I never come close to touching the range limit of electric vehicles (though I'm not sure exactly how much different driving conditions would expect things). I would definitely daily drive the Rivian, as it would be our most efficient vehicle (though now that it's less hot, I bike to work a lot of the time). I don't think the Grenadier would be. We also take longer trips that might be a couple weeks and a couple thousand miles, parts of which are through remote areas. I wouldn't take the Rivian on those right now. But I'm not sure I'd take the Grenadier either. It would really depend on how much capability I thought I'd need vs. how much efficiency I was willing to give up as right now we do them in a Transit Connect of all things, which actually has good payload and is fine just uncomfortable driving on beat up dirt roads, if no kind of an off roader. On our big trip this summer, there were probably three times when I made the route decision I did because of our van's limited capabilities. One time I just would have explored a bit farther down a road. Another I would have chosen a different camp site (but really by only 200 yards), and the third I chose a route that honestly I'm not sure was less rugged than the one I avoided, it just wasn't marketed as something you should have an SUV for. At the end of that one, we came to a snowed in pass that nothing was getting across and would have had to turn around in whatever vehicle.

Part of why I like the Grenadier is that I just like mechanical things. I don't even think they're better necessarily, I just like them. I'm a data science professor. I am very happy doing many things with computers, but somehow I just love simple, more analog vehicles. I drove a TJ Wrangler growing up. I sold a more modern car to keep a 90s BMW when we moved just because I liked it more. The Grenadier has a strong pull for me in that direction.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I hope that the Grenadier comes together in terms of being the best version of the tried and true. It seems like it has the potential to, but until we see exactly how well those systems work together I won't be totally unconcerned given it's the first vehicle from the manufacturer. It's not like the old Defender was perfectly reliable. It was just fixable.

It sounds like you are using it in remote areas professionally and that's a different use case than mine. Whatever I end up with with be very much a life style vehicle, so I don't NEED it to do anything specifically. I live outside of Las Vegas though, so there are basically endless places to explore off road/on rough dirt roads. Both something like the Grenadier/Defender/Rivian would be fun for that. On day exploration/local camping trips, I never come close to touching the range limit of electric vehicles (though I'm not sure exactly how much different driving conditions would expect things). I would definitely daily drive the Rivian, as it would be our most efficient vehicle (though now that it's less hot, I bike to work a lot of the time). I don't think the Grenadier would be. We also take longer trips that might be a couple weeks and a couple thousand miles, parts of which are through remote areas. I wouldn't take the Rivian on those right now. But I'm not sure I'd take the Grenadier either. It would really depend on how much capability I thought I'd need vs. how much efficiency I was willing to give up as right now we do them in a Transit Connect of all things, which actually has good payload and is fine just uncomfortable driving on beat up dirt roads, if no kind of an off roader. On our big trip this summer, there were probably three times when I made the route decision I did because of our van's limited capabilities. One time I just would have explored a bit farther down a road. Another I would have chosen a different camp site (but really by only 200 yards), and the third I chose a route that honestly I'm not sure was less rugged than the one I avoided, it just wasn't marketed as something you should have an SUV for. At the end of that one, we came to a snowed in pass that nothing was getting across and would have had to turn around in whatever vehicle.

Part of why I like the Grenadier is that I just like mechanical things. I don't even think they're better necessarily, I just like them. I'm a data science professor. I am very happy doing many things with computers, but somehow I just love simple, more analog vehicles. I drove a TJ Wrangler growing up. I sold a more modern car to keep a 90s BMW when we moved just because I liked it more. The Grenadier has a strong pull for me in that direction.

Totally hear you on the love of mechanical things. The Gren certainly appeals to that for me too. There’s something honest about the design so far that I quite like.

I also get where you are coming from on the efficiency side vs how much capability you’d need. In my case I’m planning a global tour with my family. We can do it in our current Canyon, and that was the plan when we bought it (still might be depending on what the future holds) but as much as I love my little truck, we are hoping for something just a bit more suited for our needs. We travel with two dogs and a small child so the payload gets eaten up fast, which is why I want 1 ton payload. I also really like a vehicle that CAN do what I want so that’s it’s not the limiting factor on my trips - like you said with your transit this almost never happens, but for me it’s as much about getting to those places that are hard to access as it is getting out of places that are easy today, but hard tomorrow.

I see lockers and such more as a “get out of trouble” feature than a feature that lets me get places (though of course I use them for both).

I also like things that are just a bit different — there’s plenty of folks with built land cruisers and Jeeps. I love those rigs too (esp. Jeeps) but part of the fun is making an unusual thing work well. My motorbike is a triumph tiger in a world of BMW GS’s; my truck is a Canyon in a sea of Tacos and Colorados. The creation of the rig is a big part of the fun and I think the Grens features will make this a pretty cool platform to build on.

 

[MarcusBrody]

Totally hear you on the love of mechanical things. The Gren certainly appeals to that for me too. There’s something honest about the design so far that I quite like.

I also get where you are coming from on the efficiency side vs how much capability you’d need. In my case I’m planning a global tour with my family. We can do it in our current Canyon, and that was the plan when we bought it (still might be depending on what the future holds) but as much as I love my little truck, we are hoping for something just a bit more suited for our needs. We travel with two dogs and a small child so the payload gets eaten up fast, which is why I want 1 ton payload. I also really like a vehicle that CAN do what I want so that’s it’s not the limiting factor on my trips - like you said with your transit this almost never happens, but for me it’s as much about getting to those places that are hard to access as it is getting out of places that are easy today, but hard tomorrow.

I see lockers and such more as a “get out of trouble” feature than a feature that lets me get places (though of course I use them for both).

I also like things that are just a bit different — there’s plenty of folks with built land cruisers and Jeeps. I love those rigs too (esp. Jeeps) but part of the fun is making an unusual thing work well. My motorbike is a triumph tiger in a world of BMW GS’s; my truck is a Canyon in a sea of Tacos and Colorados. The creation of the rig is a big part of the fun and I think the Grens features will make this a pretty cool platform to build on.

I totally understand where you're coming from. I also - whether I admit it or not - tend to like the non-obvious option. It's probably one reason I ended up with one of the least cool vehicles in existence as my adventure-mobile. Though when I got it, I lived in the Northeast and was mostly using it as transport for skiing/mountain biking/hiking adventures, so capability wasn't a bit issue. If I could get one with Bronco Sport level capability though, I swear I'd buy another one rather than be looking at SUVs. I love the form factor.

That does remind me of another thing I love about the Grenadier in theory: The big, mostly squarish rear cargo area. I don't like how many SUVs have sculpted shapes that make the rear doors smaller than the cargo area and the roof sloping at different points. We pack most of our gear in plastic gasket boxes and they just stack right into the back of the Transit Connect, two large and one short per stack. Even in most big SUVs with more room, it wouldn't be that easy. The Grenadier looks to be the exception, though given the bigger wheels/wheelwells, you might need to build something to ensure that the space on the sides is used efficiently.

And I didn't mean to say i wouldn't want as much capability as I could get. I absolutely do. And I would use all of it exploring places locally (at least until I max out my ability, which I suspect would come before the trucks). I'm just willing to pay more for/preferentially consider a vehicle that I use for more purposes and that's where the capability/efficiency tradeoff starts as while our big trips often have probably hundreds of miles of dirt roads, they also have thousands of paved ones, so I take that into consideration. My family lives in the East and we're often going to visit them so while we may go to PA from Vegas via Western NV, Eastern CA, Eastern OR, WA, Idaho, MT, we eventually pass the Dakota badlands and then still have half a country to cover on the highway. So if I could do it in the more efficient of our vehicle, I'd feel like I should. Except for the first time, when I'd definitely take the cooler one. My parents have yet to be convinced to move to Alaska, alas.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I think we have similar perspectives! Sounds like Ineos will sell at least two of these things

I totally hear you on the cargo area. I already have been thinking of how to build that out -- the wheel wells aren't flat on the inside, but a shelf across the top of them with vertical supports alongside the wheel wells would leave a triangular space that would be perfect for stuffing things that are bulky and soft, like jackets and blankets. Then in the middle part, there should be plenty of space for a fridge on one side, and twin sliding drawers on the other. The shelf then serves as supplemental storage, and packed to the ceiling there should be a ton of room in there. The shape of the area looks fantastic -- there's no challenges like in the earlier JKs where, if you went with the premium audio system, there was a subwoofer that took up about 33% of the cargo floor (We had to move our subwoofer to the roll bar).

I'm better at building stuff than I am at drawing it but the blue parts are where I was thinking would be good stuff areas.

And I didn't mean to say i wouldn't want as much capability as I could get. I absolutely do. And I would use all of it exploring places locally (at least until I max out my ability, which I suspect would come before the trucks). I'm just willing to pay more for/preferentially consider a vehicle that I use for more purposes and that's where the capability/efficiency tradeoff starts as while our big trips often have probably hundreds of miles of dirt roads, they also have thousands of paved ones, so I take that into consideration. My family lives in the East and we're often going to visit them so while we may go to PA from Vegas via Western NV, Eastern CA, Eastern OR, WA, Idaho, MT, we eventually pass the Dakota badlands and then still have half a country to cover on the highway. So if I could do it in the more efficient of our vehicle, I'd feel like I should. Except for the first time, when I'd definitely take the cooler one. My parents have yet to be convinced to move to Alaska, alas.

Totally hear you on this one too. Andrew St-Pierre White uses this approach too, but rather than focusing on a vehicle, I always say "What is the thing I'm least flexible on?" and "What is the things I'm most flexible on?". And then I make my list, from least flexible to most flexible. For me, thats things like "must have 4x4 low range", "must be able to fit 3 passengers and my dogs", etc. whereas the stuff I'm most flexible on are things like "what the rig looks like" and "who makes it". To some degree, even my budget is flexible - if I feel I'm getting good value I can move a bit there too.

The nice thing about this approach is that it's as unique as the individual. The trouble is it often takes a bit of experience to know what is truly a "I'm flexible on this" thing and what isn't. 10 years ago, I would have been very flexible on heated seats, for instance. But these days, that's a lot higher on my list of things I won't flex on. Of Course, to learn that I first had to move to a vehicle with heated seats, use it for a while, and then move back to one without, where I noticed the absence of that feature. That's an expensive way to learn stuff, but it's part of the fun!

 

[Marine_Diesel]

The Grenadier Forum

The INEOS Grenadier Forum

www.theineosforum.com

For those that are interested in being part of a community for the Ineos Grenadier, here we go.

 

[Highlander]

We travel with two dogs and a small child so the payload gets eaten up fast, which is why I want 1 ton payload.

This is exactly why I have zero interest in small trucks such as Tacoma or Ranger.
I only just started paying attention to this.
I have a dog, hunting gear, living gear and want to get bikes and kayaks and a small boat for duck hunting. Two adults + food and water and you are way past of the payload.
there is no way Tacoma can take this much load and even 1/2 ton is a stretch.
Other option for me is an HD 3/4 ton truck and I don’t find it attractive how big they have become. Maybe the Ram 2500 is an exception.
The Grenadier is indeed very interesting in this regard.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

This is exactly why I have zero interest in small trucks such as Tacoma or Ranger.
I only just started paying attention to this.
I have a dog, hunting gear, living gear and want to get bikes and kayaks and a small boat for duck hunting. Two adults + food and water and you are way past of the payload.
there is no way Tacoma can take this much load and even 1/2 ton is a stretch.
Other option for me is an HD 3/4 ton truck and I don’t find it attractive how big they have become. Maybe the Ram 2500 is an exception.
The Grenadier is indeed very interesting in this regard.

We make it work - but it’s take a lot of time and money and trial and error. Everything has to be the lightest version of what’s available - surprisingly, that’s what shifted my DIY approach away from “Can I do it cheaper?” To “Who cares if it’s cheaper, can I do it lighter?”. In our case, we’re not using our rig for hunting trips but if we were, we couldn’t do it (I deer hunt and have an idea of how much “extra” comes along on a hunting trip as opposed to one of our typical adventures).

Where the little trucks really shine is in their ability to get places. Tiny, light, and nimble, they’ll go all over. The Ineos is a bit more of a compromise in that regard but that’s one that I can live with. My goal was 80% max payload on my current truck and I blew past that really fast, but there was good reason for the 80% figure so I’d like my adventure vehicle to hit that, so I think I can do it with the Ineos.

 

[Paddler Ed]

Australia pricing and servicing model released today:

2022 Ineos Grenadier due next year with fixed pricing, from $84,500

Reservations for the rugged 4X4 open on the 30th September, 2021.

www.drive.com.au

Looks interesting in terms of using the Bosch Service Centre network, and not a surprise on the fixed price model (looking at Ford's Bronco pricing headaches)

 

[Paddler Ed]

And a bit more from Pistonheads:

Ineos plots up to 23 retail outlets for Grenadier

Making a car is the easy bit; now Ineos has to sell it...

www.pistonheads.com

and Autocar:

New 2022 Ineos Grenadier officially opens for order | Autocar

Go-anywhere 4x4 priced from £49,000 in entry-level Utility Wagon form

www.autocar.co.uk

UK focused, but I think the pattern is becoming clearer

 

[Todd780]

Would BMW be able to service these? Or would you have to locate an Ineos dealer?

 

[paachi]

I am guessing Bosch might be the go to in the US as well. After I read the Australian announcement I checked how many Bosch service centers are available near me and found 4 in a 50 mile radius!! Not bad..

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Hi folks,

I listened in on my lunch break and tried to "live type" the stuff that jumped out to me; I kept a running narrative on www.theineosforum.com (for Gren specific stuff, I recommend signing up). Here's a cut and paste, but be warned I may have misheard things or mis-typed as it was a lot of info coming fast:

I'll keep a running narrative on what I'm seeing so far:

1) USA is 2023 availability. Most other places are 2022.
2) The YouTube comments are full of people who mostly do not know what they are talking about and likely should be ignored.
3) They have moved from sales to service. Service plan looks excellent. They've confirmed the online manual and parts diagrams, and their commitment to being able to fix it. They've also hand-picked Bosch sites to repair.
4) I can't believe what I just heard - they are committing to having a service center within 45 minutes of...Everywhere in Africa.


Read #4 again. That's nuts. And incredible.


5) What configurations?
- 2 and 5 seat wagons.
- Pickup is coming.
- Otherwise tight lipped -- potential to do more (Service bodies are almost a certainty, I think)
- EVs/Hydrogen question: Alternative Fuels are on the radar. Ineos "is quite good with Hydrogen".

6) UK Pricing?
- 2 Seat Commercial is the base model with 48k including VAT in the UK.
- WON'T be a vehicle that has a "start price" of 48k and then doubles as you add stuff. It's $48k for a very capable, well equipped vehicle. 
- Focus is on value (i.e. it's not the cheapest thing out there but there's a lot of vehicle for the model).

7) Crew Cab Pickup timeline:
- More than on the drawing board, coming along well.
- Focus is on getting started and they are being careful not to bite more than they can chew. 

8) BMW Dealers and Service question
- Engines and Powertrain are the most complicated bit.
- BMW is absolutely not exclusive. They are helping in South Africa, but they are also working closely with Bosch Car Service.

9) USA Information
- Yes, 2023.
- This includes Canada according to Mark (Hooray!) but the panel keeps talking about USA. I really just want one of them to say "...and Canada" for 100% confirmation!


10) Production Volume?
- 2026 they want peak production of about 30k vehicles, but have 70k people already interested.
- 2.5 k per year to start in the UK, build to 6k.
- Target of 4k in the USA (Interesting)
- They believe they will hit peak year before 2026.

Sorry for the multiple posts, just want to make sure I don't hit any Forum Timeouts and lose the "live thread" aspect.

11) Difference between Commercial variant and the 5-seater:
- Commercial classification is based on European standard, and the key difference is the position of the rear seats and the angle of the seat back. The reason is the load space has to have a certain relationship to the wheels and back door, so this is the main difference. Also this means the commercial version is fold flat seats (the floor will be flat! Hooray! - but this is for commercial only).


12) When will we see paint jobs?
- Very, very soon.
- CONFIGURATOR IS GOING LIVE TONIGHT!

I got a bit excited on that configurator news, sorry.

13) What's the deal with reservations?

Opens tonight at midnight. Opens on the 14th of October for everyone else. Asking for a $450 pound/euro/dollar deposit. This gives you a reservation slot when they start taking orders.

14) best feature on a Grenadier for a dog? (Love this question ?)
- Immense amount of space and no one is going to be upset if you're muddy. Brilliant answer.



Social Media team is going through all the questions in the next few days for those they didn't get to live.

Looks like things are wrapping up, but this was the play by play I heard over my lunch break! There's a slight feeling of being left wanting, but overall I'm pretty happy - more to be excited for than sad about.

 

[nickw]

I hope that the Grenadier comes together in terms of being the best version of the tried and true. It seems like it has the potential to, but until we see exactly how well those systems work together I won't be totally unconcerned given it's the first vehicle from the manufacturer. It's not like the old Defender was perfectly reliable. It was just fixable.

It sounds like you are using it in remote areas professionally and that's a different use case than mine. Whatever I end up with with be very much a life style vehicle, so I don't NEED it to do anything specifically. I live outside of Las Vegas though, so there are basically endless places to explore off road/on rough dirt roads. Both something like the Grenadier/Defender/Rivian would be fun for that. On day exploration/local camping trips, I never come close to touching the range limit of electric vehicles (though I'm not sure exactly how much different driving conditions would expect things). I would definitely daily drive the Rivian, as it would be our most efficient vehicle (though now that it's less hot, I bike to work a lot of the time). I don't think the Grenadier would be. We also take longer trips that might be a couple weeks and a couple thousand miles, parts of which are through remote areas. I wouldn't take the Rivian on those right now. But I'm not sure I'd take the Grenadier either. It would really depend on how much capability I thought I'd need vs. how much efficiency I was willing to give up as right now we do them in a Transit Connect of all things, which actually has good payload and is fine just uncomfortable driving on beat up dirt roads, if no kind of an off roader. On our big trip this summer, there were probably three times when I made the route decision I did because of our van's limited capabilities. One time I just would have explored a bit farther down a road. Another I would have chosen a different camp site (but really by only 200 yards), and the third I chose a route that honestly I'm not sure was less rugged than the one I avoided, it just wasn't marketed as something you should have an SUV for. At the end of that one, we came to a snowed in pass that nothing was getting across and would have had to turn around in whatever vehicle.

Part of why I like the Grenadier is that I just like mechanical things. I don't even think they're better necessarily, I just like them. I'm a data science professor. I am very happy doing many things with computers, but somehow I just love simple, more analog vehicles. I drove a TJ Wrangler growing up. I sold a more modern car to keep a 90s BMW when we moved just because I liked it more. The Grenadier has a strong pull for me in that direction.

I keep hearing people say 'analog' and 'mechanical' related to the Grenadier but I don't see how the Grenadier is any more mechanical / analog other options out there. For instance several modern vehicles still have manual tcases and having a "lever" doesn't mean fully mechanical....some still use solenoids for actual engagement along with front axle disconnects, I don't see where this is described in any of the Ineos literature to know for certain.

It does have a hand brake....so do several modern vehicles.

It does have a keyed ignition....so do several vehicles, funny thing about that, my 2019 Ranger had a keyed ignition but like the Tcase example above, once I turned it....it effectively triggered the same auto start up procedure as a button did vs old school true keyed / manual start up, Ineos may be sim.

It has the drivetrain from any modern BMW along with a infotainment screen and a bunch of electronic buttons - none of which is simple or analog like an OG cruiser or rover.

I think the new Bronco and modern Jeeps are the most 'mechanical' vehicles out there since they have manual Tcases but more importantly manual Trans....

Cool rig for sure - hopefully none of that came across disparaging.

 

[Mattlodi]

Australia pricing and servicing model released today:

2022 Ineos Grenadier due next year with fixed pricing, from $84,500

Reservations for the rugged 4X4 open on the 30th September, 2021.

www.drive.com.au

Looks interesting in terms of using the Bosch Service Centre network, and not a surprise on the fixed price model (looking at Ford's Bronco pricing headaches)

Same in Italy regarding the Bosch network, here starting price will be 60500€


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

 

[Christian P.]

Ineos Grenadier Updates - Expedition Portal

We get critical news on the Grenadier pricing, availability, service, dealership network, and purchasing experience.

expeditionportal.com