INEOS Grenadier

[nickw]

Do we have any mechanical specs on diff sizes, trans ratios, etc? I'm guessing they are using D44's or equiv.

I find it hard to believe that it's going to be priced reasonably in line with say Landcruiser? Looks like base price is low $70's, but once optioned competatively with a LC, should we expect low 80's?

 

[Grassland]

What's a land cruiser worth? We don't have those up North.

 

[Stormhammer]

Where did you see this at?

https://grenadierprototypetour.com/

 

[Stormhammer]

What's a land cruiser worth? We don't have those up North.

MSRP is $85k, and... you sure?

 

[Stormhammer]

Do we have any mechanical specs on diff sizes, trans ratios, etc? I'm guessing they are using D44's or equiv.

I find it hard to believe that it's going to be priced reasonably in line with say Landcruiser? Looks like base price is low $70's, but once optioned competatively with a LC, should we expect low 80's?

Below the Land Cruiser -they were stating their target market in the USA is the Wrangler Rubicon, 4Runner TRD Pro, and Bronco Outer Banks. That puts it around $55k.

There aren't many options. Lockers, leather seats, carpeting, safari windows ( the ones above the driver and passenger seat ), and the rear side window ( can me a panel, or a stroage box. ) and thats really is so far - total build configuration is released at the end of the month.

 

[Mako1114]

Where did you see this at?

I put a deposit down early on for the wife. So far looking at ordering white with the black steel rims, lockers, sliders, leather interior and winch.

Cheers

 

[Grassland]

MSRP is $85k, and... you sure?

In canukistan, no, certainly can't buy the new version, and I don't think we had older models either. Only Lexus and Toyota.

 

[nickw]

Below the Land Cruiser -they were stating their target market in the USA is the Wrangler Rubicon, 4Runner TRD Pro, and Bronco Outer Banks. That puts it around $55k.

There aren't many options. Lockers, leather seats, carpeting, safari windows ( the ones above the driver and passenger seat ), and the rear side window ( can me a panel, or a stroage box. ) and thats really is so far - total build configuration is released at the end of the month.

I don't see any way these can be sold for $55k, made in France, built to high standard (in theory), somewhat niche, low volume, BMW engine and based on the reviews solidly built (above poster suggested it felt like Gwagen)....not sure how they could swing this financially for less than mid $70's relative to what else is out there, hope I am wrong, but cant fathom pricing in line with the ones you mention.

**Edit, just found this, which certainly makes sense:

Ineos signing US dealers for rugged Grenadier SUV

British firm Ineos' Grenadier off-roader could reach the U.S. as early as 2023.

www.motorauthority.com

 

[Stormhammer]

I don't see any way these can be sold for $55k, made in France, built to high standard (in theory), somewhat niche, low volume, BMW engine and based on the reviews solidly built (above poster suggested it felt like Gwagen)....not sure how they could swing this financially for less than mid $70's relative to what else is out there, hope I am wrong, but cant fathom pricing in line with the ones you mention.

**Edit, just found this, which certainly makes sense:

Ineos signing US dealers for rugged Grenadier SUV

British firm Ineos' Grenadier off-roader could reach the U.S. as early as 2023.

www.motorauthority.com

View attachment 718485

Yeah, that's from last summer. Speaking with them in person they stated they wanted it less than a Landcruiser since globally the 70 series is their target market. Figure the commercial one ( 2 seater ) is being priced at $49k EU.

We will see in the end.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I don't see any way these can be sold for $55k, made in France, built to high standard (in theory), somewhat niche, low volume, BMW engine and based on the reviews solidly built (above poster suggested it felt like Gwagen)....not sure how they could swing this financially for less than mid $70's relative to what else is out there, hope I am wrong, but cant fathom pricing in line with the ones you mention.

I'm also struggling to see how this thing will come in at those prices when a new Gladiator is still north of $80k around here, but hopeful. I think it depends on what the "actual" margins are on "what else is out there" though - I've posted elsewhere that Canada was eyeing up a bunch of G-Wagens for military use and was quoted $45k each. By the time they added the land mine protection and such they were north of $100k, but I read it was possible to buy the bare-bones G-wagen at $45k CAD. Mercedes isn't a charity so while I don't know their business model, I doubt they were losing money on them at $45k per unit (but they may have been if there is a service agreement attached, which may well be the case for large-volume fleet orders like this; kind of a "give away razor handles to sell blades" approach). So, long story short, maybe there is a way to sell a bare-bones ruggedized 4x4 for the prices Ineos is hoping to hit, but I share your raised-eyebrow-of-scepticism until I see actual prices in black-and-white, fees and such included.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

I'm also struggling to see how this thing will come in at those prices when a new Gladiator is still north of $80k around here, but hopeful. I think it depends on what the "actual" margins are on "what else is out there" though - I've posted elsewhere that Canada was eyeing up a bunch of G-Wagens for military use and was quoted $45k each. By the time they added the land mine protection and such they were north of $100k, but I read it was possible to buy the bare-bones G-wagen at $45k CAD. Mercedes isn't a charity so while I don't know their business model, I doubt they were losing money on them at $45k per unit (but they may have been if there is a service agreement attached, which may well be the case for large-volume fleet orders like this; kind of a "give away razor handles to sell blades" approach). So, long story short, maybe there is a way to sell a bare-bones ruggedized 4x4 for the prices Ineos is hoping to hit, but I share your raised-eyebrow-of-scepticism until I see actual prices in black-and-white, fees and such included.

Are you referring to these Canadian military G-wagens? I See them driving around every so often....

Department of National Defence Adds More Mercedes G Wagons to Canadian Armed Forces | Car News | Auto123

Read this car news article from 2004-07-16. Department of National Defence Adds More Mercedes G Wagons to Canadian Armed Forces

www.auto123.com

More than just a truck | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

 

[nickw]

Yeah, that's from last summer. Speaking with them in person they stated they wanted it less than a Landcruiser since globally the 70 series is their target market. Figure the commercial one ( 2 seater ) is being priced at $49k EU.

We will see in the end.

I've said it before, if Toyota offered the LC70 here stateside they'd be very expensive, a lot more than many would think, I bet mid to upper $50's best case. This things is a helluva lot nicer than a std. 70 series.

Cost to manuf a rig is a piece of the pie, supply chain channels, parts availability, dealer overhead, business overhead, tarriffs, taxes, etc. all add up.......

The US has the 'chicken tax' which is why Toyota has manuf domestically.

 

[nickw]

I'm also struggling to see how this thing will come in at those prices when a new Gladiator is still north of $80k around here, but hopeful. I think it depends on what the "actual" margins are on "what else is out there" though - I've posted elsewhere that Canada was eyeing up a bunch of G-Wagens for military use and was quoted $45k each. By the time they added the land mine protection and such they were north of $100k, but I read it was possible to buy the bare-bones G-wagen at $45k CAD. Mercedes isn't a charity so while I don't know their business model, I doubt they were losing money on them at $45k per unit (but they may have been if there is a service agreement attached, which may well be the case for large-volume fleet orders like this; kind of a "give away razor handles to sell blades" approach). So, long story short, maybe there is a way to sell a bare-bones ruggedized 4x4 for the prices Ineos is hoping to hit, but I share your raised-eyebrow-of-scepticism until I see actual prices in black-and-white, fees and such included.

Even if they *could* offer at mid 50's, with domestic competition like the Jeeps and Defender and Bronco all priced (comparably) in the 60-70k+ range, why would they undercut themselves?

I think you are right about the service agreements, but with military contracts there is a lot of politics involved, espcially with huge economies of scale with massive orders. Not to mention, with Germany being a NATO ally, there may be some reciprocity with other military equipment sell-backs from CAN -> GER....I am sure it's complicated.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

@Todd n Natalie - exactly the ones I mean. I don't actually know how different they are from the fancy G-Wagens on the Mercedes' dealer lots but they look quite similar in terms of construction. And @nickw I think you are spot on - they wouldn't undercut themselves and they will charge what the market will bear; I just rely on that $45k price tag of Mercs to illustrate that it seems possible to produce 4x4s at that price point for a profit these days (give a take a few grand; shipping and supply chain have jacked prices over the last few months). There have been a wide variety of expected prices -- from the $50k range, to the "Similar to a JL or Bronco" range (which could be anywhere between $50k and $90k+!), to some folks claiming these will be in New Defender territory ($90k+, more likely $100k+). My thinking/theory is if a G-Wagen can be profitable at $45k (That's a big "if" due to the unknown complexities you mentioned), then surely a Grenadier which is spiritually quite similar should be able to be profitable at the lower/more reasonable end of these estimates too, and I'm hopeful that is where Ineos positions them.

 

[AbleGuy]

Here’s an older but good informative write up about their plans for their NC hq

Ineos Automotive Setting Up North American HQ in North Carolina

Ineos Automotive Setting Up North American HQ in North Carolina - The Detroit Bureau

The evolution of British-based Ineos Automotive and its coming rough-and-tumble SUV, the Grenadier, took another step forward with the company’s announcement its North American headquarters will be located in Raleigh, North Carolina. Greg Clark, the man who heads up its North American...

www.thedetroitbureau.com