INEOS Grenadier

[mpinco]

The prototype/mule was built a year ago?

Ineos Grenadier: the prototype due in 2018 under the new engineering process
February 14, 2018

German engineering firm MBtech, which is part-owned by Mercedes-Benz, has signed an agreement with Ineos of the Automobile to the engineer of his Land Rover Defender’s inspiration Projekt Grenadier SUV. ........."

Steyr is a manufacturing company, a partner during production.

 

[Pilat]

The prototype/mule was built a year ago?

Ineos Grenadier: the prototype due in 2018 under the new engineering process
February 14, 2018
German engineering firm MBtech, which is part-owned by Mercedes-Benz, has signed an agreement with Ineos of the Automobile to the engineer of his Land Rover Defender’s inspiration Projekt Grenadier SUV. ........."

Steyr is a manufacturing company, a partner during production.

And, yet, no photos - not even camouflaged ones. And how did they actually win the lawsuit when they outright say it's "inspired" by it. But, anyway, signing an agreement doesn't mean there will be an actual product. They say it was "due in 2018", not that they actually had a prototype or mule. That was February. Can you find me photos of this prototype, or even a statement that there is mule running around?

The only thing I have been able to find is that they now have Magna_Steyr do the entire vehicle at some point in the future - not only the suspension, drivetrain, and so on.

 

[mpinco]

Vehicle designs are closely held secrets, running around disguised as other models. You won't see photos till near the release dates. Same as the LR Luxury Defender.

Many designs are 'inspired' by others. Just look at the early days of the D5 and the Ford Explorer similarities.

 

[Pilat]

Yeah, sure. That's why they don't even mention it in their news section that they have a running mule.
You do realise that other car manufacturers also have prototypes and mules running around? And that they're often photographed, right? They don't even have a frigging render of the design or of any of the details/solutions.
All they have are claims of partnerships. Why didn't they say when that prototype was ready when they said it would be due in 2018? Perhaps because it never was going to be ready?

 

[mpinco]

2021 Ford Bronco discussions on Ineos Granedier. For test mule pic scroll down.

 

[Pilat]

2021 Ford Bronco discussions on Ineos Granedier. For test mule pic scroll down.

Looks like some redneck cooked up that thing. With lifts and all.





And certainly not something that makes the following statement true:

"

prototype due in 2018 under the new engineering process

In fact, that makes me think they're not further than trying to setup the suspension on that thing.

 

[mpinco]

Magna Steyr is a contract manufacturer for production.

Steyr-Daimler-Puch grew into an industrial empire that designed and manufactured a dizzying variety of products including weapons, bicycles, mopeds, trucks, tractors, buses, automotive components and, of course, cars. It divested most of these businesses in the late 1980s and early 1990s and it merged with Canada’s Magna in 2001 to become a global leader in contract-manufacturing: making other companies' cars to order.

Its story is rarely told. In 2019, Magna-Steyr is best known as the historic home of the Mercedes-Benz G-Class, and for now building the all-new 2019 Toyota Supra and BMW Z4.

 

[Pilat]

Yes, as I mentioned several times previously.

 

[mpinco]

Would think initial production would be with Magna Steyr or under their management in Britain. As I understand it major component manufacturing would be in Portugal with final assembly in Britain.

Overall design, development, prototyping and testing is further along than in press releases. Very normal.

 

[Pilat]

Again, I read that press release about the signed agreement earlier. It is just a press release about a signed agreement. As was the one about the prototype that was to be due during 2018. That didn't come to fruition either. That photo of a rolling chassis with something on top of it doesn't cut it as a prototype in my book. Proof of concept, maybe. But we do know that solid axle vehicles work.

 

[Victory_Overland]

@Pilat there are videos on their own release of the mule in action and have been out for a looooooooonnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg time. You of all people; the Defender Icon Expert should know by now that JLR was testing components of the new Defender for about 5 years before it made it to a full mule and then again years before they made it to a prototype. You are now doing the EXACT same thing that you ************** for 45 pages on the Defender Love/Hate thread; do your research and understand product development before you can bark at others on how something is going to come to life; modern product development is far more established outside of opinion base theory these days than an yours and anyone else opinion on whether one loves or hates the new Defender.

Tesla Roadster was running around as a low production vehicle that met all safety and import/export rules for ten years; it was actually the mule for the Model S full design prototype. Elon's only purpose of the Roadster was Model S mule'd Model X parts, and then Model 3 is muling Model Y and whatever was left on the shelf came Cyberjunk; I mean CyberTruck. The new Roadster is derived from the P100D technology with new suspension technology coming from other sources.

The new Jeep Wagoneer is running around on a pickup chassis (mule), etc right now. How do you know that there are not five preproduction prototype bodies sitting in Ineos plant (or wherever) waiting for pre-production chassis and drivetrains derived from the mule and Magna-Steyr is getting the low-rate production (1st gen run) going before full-rate production assembly line starts. Since they are a dedicated production company, you have any idea how fast they can design, engineer, tooling and production; many times its as simple as a few computer strokes to drop in programs and boom, donski that thing is stamping out body panels for days on end.

You think the new Bronco is going to share any of the same components/technology from other Ford vehicles? Did the new Corvette start from zero on paper within 18 months made full production numbers to delivery; I think not (I know not).

Do a little research and smarten yourself up on some real educational sources outside of FaceSpace and Twittergram; oh and Wikipedia is not a viable academic resource!

 

[Pilat]

@Pilat there are videos on their own release of the mule in action and have been out for a looooooooonnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg time. You of all people; the Defender Icon Expert should know by now that JLR was testing components of the new Defender for about 5 years before it made it to a full mule and then again years before they made it to a prototype. You are now doing the EXACT same thing that you ************** for 45 pages on the Defender Love/Hate thread; do your research and understand product development before you can bark at others on how something is going to come to life; modern product development is far more established outside of opinion base theory these days than an yours and anyone else opinion on whether one loves or hates the new Defender.

Tesla Roadster was running around as a low production vehicle that met all safety and import/export rules for ten years; it was actually the mule for the Model S full design prototype. Elon's only purpose of the Roadster was Model S mule'd Model X parts, and then Model 3 is muling Model Y and whatever was left on the shelf came Cyberjunk; I mean CyberTruck. The new Roadster is derived from the P100D technology with new suspension technology coming from other sources.

The new Jeep Wagoneer is running around on a pickup chassis (mule), etc right now. How do you know that there are not five preproduction prototype bodies sitting in Ineos plant (or wherever) waiting for pre-production chassis and drivetrains derived from the mule and Magna-Steyr is getting the low-rate production (1st gen run) going before full-rate production assembly line starts. Since they are a dedicated production company, you have any idea how fast they can design, engineer, tooling and production; many times its as simple as a few computer strokes to drop in programs and boom, donski that thing is stamping out body panels for days on end.

You think the new Bronco is going to share any of the same components/technology from other Ford vehicles? Did the new Corvette start from zero on paper within 18 months made full production numbers to delivery; I think not (I know not).

Do a little research and smarten yourself up on some real educational sources outside of FaceSpace and Twittergram; oh and Wikipedia is not a viable academic resource!

And, yet, that was the photo @mpinco linked to as evidence. And their prototype that was due in later in 2018 didn't come to fruition. In fact, it was never mentioned again in their press releases again. In other words; It looks like they had the "idea" to beef up the drivetrain of a 1950s Defender and has tried to do that ever since, running their "mules". I don't see any difference between this "signed agreement" with Magna Steyr and the one in February 2018 that didn't actually come to anything.

 

[Victory_Overland]

And, yet, that was the photo @mpinco linked to as evidence. And their prototype that was due in later in 2018 didn't come to fruition. In fact, it was never mentioned again in their press releases again. In other words; It looks like they had the "idea" to beef up the drivetrain of a 1950s Defender and has tried to do that ever since, running their "mules". I don't see any difference between this "signed agreement" with Magna Steyr and the one in February 2018 that didn't actually come to anything.

Okay man, we either agree with you or have to hear you rant for another 45 pages. Please don't ruin this thread too!

Happy Holidays!

 

[Pilat]

Okay man, we either agree with you or have to hear you rant for another 45 pages. Please don't ruin this thread too!

Happy Holidays!

You were the one posting a long irrelevant rant after the thing I bolded in your post.

And also this:

Do a little research and smarten yourself up on some real educational sources outside of FaceSpace and Twittergram; oh and Wikipedia is not a viable academic resource!

You sound more and more like the other two or three people who have no insight whatsoever into anything that has to do with engineering or even problem solving.

But, whatever.

 

[mpinco]

Reality Check for some.

The Defender was EOL'd in roughly 2013/4 with production ending 2016. Jim Ratcliffe knew of that impending market exit early on and began exploring the viability of offering a product around that timeframe. Land Rover was already saying the next gen Defender was going to become a luxury soft roader, upmarket. There were years of 'networking' prior to the formation of Ineos Automotive in 2017. You don't stand up a company without significant due dilegence and prior work. Magna Steyr was part of that 'networking' as was MB. They were involved with the project before Ineos Automotive was formally organized as an ongoing concern. To see a mule on the road by 2018 is not unexpected given the 3 to 4 years of work already in place. The latest Magna-Steyr press release is for PRODUCTION which says they have transitioned to low volume manufacturing, which is Steyr's expertise. That production knowledge will then be transferred to Portugal and Bridgend for higher volumes. Seems pretty much on schedule, +- a year or so.

As already reported Land Rover is OK with the Granedier as they have moved upmarket to Luxury, a SportUV product above the Ineos product. Given Gerry McGovern's preference for Sport and Luxury I wouldn't be surprised to see the Defender/Discovery move further upmarket, just below Range Rover. That leaves significant room for Ineos Automotive. Long term Ineos is Europe's largest hydrogen supplier and there is already work to offer fuel cells with the Granedier. BEV's don't make sense for utility vehicles. Don't be surprised when Ineos fuel cell technology makes its way into the Range Rover product line. JLR has already said the RR becomes too heavy and slow as a BEV with any decent range. Long term I don't see Ineos and JLR being competitors.