INEOS Grenadier

[jgallo1]

I think the cost will be a concern, but as all vehicles have hit the stratosphere recently, this may not be as big an issue as I thought before.

The interior concerns I have read in reviews will be a larger worry; my GX has no space up front though aftermarket solutions exist and I've adding them this weekend, for example.

BMW reliability and service options will be huge, and at this point, it's a major failure for nothing to be geolocated. Searching through Bosch itself sends you to a perpetual circle of non-answers, where no service stations can be searched for in the US. A year out...and no one can say where you'd take this rig in to get factory service?

And yes, I have read that BMW will do the service for the drivetrain.

This article said "200 locations by the end of 2022:

Ineos Readies Dealer Network for Grenadier

Ineos is setting up dealer networks around the world ahead of the start of Grenadier sales later this summer in the UK. Here's when we'll see the 4x4 here.

www.autoweek.com

I agree with you about serviceability.
I was on google maps looking for bosch service centers and it seems to be slim pickins'.
If BMW can service the Ineos, that will be very helpful.
Some remote areas will still struggle. My buddy has a sprinter van in Bozeman, they finally opened a dealer in billings. A few yrs back he had to take the van to spokane.

 

[utherjorge]

My buddy has a sprinter van in Bozeman, they finally opened a dealer in billings. A few yrs back he had to take the van to spokane.

I mean....I'm in Pennsylvania and this week need a Lexus dealer for service. I'm a minimum 2 hours away from the closest...and the better one is three hours away. And this is for a fancy Toyota. So...will be interesting to see.

 

[DoKarider16]

This will be interesting to watch this unfold. Like the rig but the whole service chain seems insurmountable unless they have some trick up their sleeve. We have a Mercedes Sprinter and have to drive 100 miles to the nearest Sprinter qualified dealer. When you get there the van service is down the priority chain from the fancy cars. It would be interesting to see how BMW works this if Grenadier comes in. Maybe it will be fine. Love the potential.

 

[JackW]

I was pretty impressed with the test drive up in Dahlonega as well - here are my pictures of the day.

Ineos Grenadier test drive - solaros1

Introduction to prototype Ineos Grenadiers at Iron Mountain off road park - Dahlonega GA 4/5/2023

solaros1.smugmug.com

I didn't take my camera out on the trail ride because they asked us not to since these prototype vehicles were not final versions and some lights were on in the dash because they were showing false faults.
For instance the airbag warning lights were illuminating because these test vehicles did not have airbags installed. I did like that they had gone to great lengths to keep the electrical system as simple as possible in a modern vehicle.
The underside was pretty impressive - everything looked very beefy and tucked in. They said the twin scroll turbo six was tuned to provide max torque around 1700 rpm with good torque available from 1200 rpm up.

 

[SkiWill]

They said the twin scroll turbo six was tuned to provide max torque around 1700 rpm with good torque available from 1200 rpm up.

Did they mention anything about octane requirements with this tune?

 

[nickw]

I was pretty impressed with the test drive up in Dahlonega as well - here are my pictures of the day.

Ineos Grenadier test drive - solaros1

Introduction to prototype Ineos Grenadiers at Iron Mountain off road park - Dahlonega GA 4/5/2023

solaros1.smugmug.com

I didn't take my camera out on the trail ride because they asked us not to since these prototype vehicles were not final versions and some lights were on in the dash because they were showing false faults.
For instance the airbag warning lights were illuminating because these test vehicles did not have airbags installed. I did like that they had gone to great lengths to keep the electrical system as simple as possible in a modern vehicle.
The underside was pretty impressive - everything looked very beefy and tucked in. They said the twin scroll turbo six was tuned to provide max torque around 1700 rpm with good torque available from 1200 rpm up.

View attachment 772737View attachment 772738

Is that some sort of skid plate mounted directly to the transmission int he background or a plastic oil pan?

 

[JackW]

I think its an alloy transmission pan - I've seen a picture of a big skid pan covering that area on other vehicles - in these pictures you can see the tabs on the front of the cross member where it mounts.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Looks like a Ford plastic pan.

 

[nickw]

I think its an alloy transmission pan - I've seen a picture of a big skid pan covering that area on other vehicles - in these pictures you can see the tabs on the front of the cross member where it mounts.

View attachment 773337
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May just be the perspective of the driveshaft but that rear driveshaft looks to have a compound angle, looks offset side to side and will obviously be up and down as well. May be a stupid question / observation but aren't most OEM rigs just a std. single plane (up and down)?

 

[casioqv]

The Grenadier seems like a cool vehicle, and I don't mean to be overly negative about it, but I don't understand the logic of the Grenadier... the whole point seems to be the ability to do a modern clean slate design, yet it seems to be anachronistic to it's own detriment. A purpose built heavy duty unibody vehicle with independent suspension is going to be a lot lighter weight, better handling, and smoother riding on rough roads. Alternatively, if you don't care for it to be lighter, the extra weight savings fundamental to the design could make it a lot tougher and stronger, because those designs just make more efficient use of the materials. There is a reason no manufacturers are doing this anymore even in offroad vehicles.

 

[nickw]

The Grenadier seems like a cool vehicle, and I don't mean to be overly negative about it, but I don't understand the logic of the Grenadier... the whole point seems to be the ability to do a modern clean slate design, yet it seems to be anachronistic to it's own detriment. A purpose built heavy duty unibody vehicle with independent suspension is going to be a lot lighter weight, better handling, and smoother riding on rough roads. Alternatively, if you don't care for it to be lighter, the extra weight savings fundamental to the design could make it a lot tougher and stronger, because those designs just make more efficient use of the materials. There is a reason no manufacturers are doing this anymore even in offroad vehicles.

Solid axles sell in the expo world (don't ask me why) and make design / engineering a WHOLE lot more simple when you can source an axle complete and just need to weld on spring perches / steering. I don't think a small manuf. could effectively produce an IFS/R rig, a lot more needs to be built in house.

I like the Defender and something like the Cayenne personally, IFS/IRS done correctly is a great solution, but nothing wrong with the IFS rigs out there. I wouldn't want to drive one 200k in Africa or through the Sahara once it was 20 years old, but those niche cases are not what 99.9% of people do with their rigs. But that sexy nostalgia sells, which brings us back to why the IG makes sense, IMO.

 

[Idaho Savage]

With respect, I think you guys are missing the intention. Lord Higgenbottoms or whatever his name is, basically wanted to recreate the Defender but make it as reliable as possible. Period. If you look at this thing that way, it makes sense.

In this vane, weight is not a priority as Defenders are heavy. Neither is modern design--they're shoe boxes that afford fantastic driver visibility, predictable angles and have almost nothing extruding laterally.

While I agree with the no-brainer aspect of modern IFS, in terms of reliability, it's no contest. Solid axles almost never fail, have far less parts and can be Jerry rigged in a jam most of the time. If you're in BFE, Africa and your IFS somehow fails, you'd better have the parts, tools and experience. A solid axle truck obviously benefits from lubricant and service but can go tens of thousands of miles without care. I once owned a Ford F250 with 300k on it that hadn't seen a front diff service since at least 110k.

Now, personally I'm holding on to my LC200 but I do appreciate both the design and execution that I've seen so far here.



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[JackW]

There are CV joints in the driveshaft - maybe they are more durable at weird angles than standard U-joints and easier to replace in the field (provided you carry a spare of course).
The guy who was telling us about the car said they made it a point to minimize some of the electrical stuff that tends to give you trouble out in the field - less stuff to go wrong but you also give up a few modern conveniences.

He said that Toyota had revised some of the electrical connections for the engine wiring harness since they buy that motor from BMW for the Supra. Toyota re-engineered some things to increase reliability and Ineos uses the Toyota design.
The body structure incorporates structural beams that act as roll bars and side intrusion protection which allowed them to make the vehicle narrower, reduce the weight of the doors and drop the window line lower for better visibility.
Old Defenders are NOT something you want to be T-boned or roll over in. The Grenadier is a lot more structurally sound. They have made some very smart decisions on the design that are pretty cool.

Its heavy but looks like it would be pretty durable in remote areas like the Australian Outback, African Bush or the American West. Its a little cramped inside and our test ride was short and not too difficult but we deliberately took the "stupid" line up whatever obstacles we encountered and it walked up them with ease. The guide said that in low range it typically starts off in third gear (of eight) and the two lower gears are real crawler ratios. They think the rear end has around a 3.73 ratio but weren't sure about that.

My problem is that I've been driving my 2020 Defender 110 for 2-1/2 years and its sort of spoiled me - its an outstanding daily driver/road trip transport with all of the modern comfort features. Its also VERY capable off road and with the proper tires and the rock sliders its gone everywhere I really wanted to take it. It's an ideal vehicle for the BDR's the TAT and many of the popular adventure touring routes. I'm not sure I'd take it on some of the legs of the KAT because its a bit wide for some of the spots I've seen on trip reports of that trail but its a great truck for exploring most of the Forest Service Roads that I like to ride on. The Grenadier appeals as a modern adventure vehicle in the mold of the old Defender - but I have one of those too along with two even older Series IIA Land Rovers. Sometimes its a little nice to be coddled with heated and cooled seats with a touch of luxury.

They did say the Grenadier plans a longer version (maybe wheelbase?) and short wheelbase version and even a pickup style model - but I'm speculating that probably wouldn't fly over here due to our regulations. I like the double rear doors - reminds me of the old Isuzu Trooper and its sort of a handy feature.



You can see the structural beams at the B and C pillars in this shot.





The 110 at the top of Daniel in the Uwharrie National Forest before I replaced the Goodyears with BFG AT's.

 

[mk216v]

It's a robust ZF 8HP trans. No Ford plastic tranny pans here...

 

[nickw]

It's a robust ZF 8HP trans. No Ford plastic tranny pans here...

The fact that it's a "8HP" is meaningless. That's like saying I have a "TH" trans in my truck and leaving out if it's a TH200, TH250, TH350, TH400 or TH475....ones is designed for lightweight cars the other for a dump truck.

It's the same trans, based on what I've seen, they put in the Supra and other lightweight BMW passenger cars (3 series, 2 series), model 8HP51. I'm sure they've done their homework but the math doesn't pencil out to me when the trans was designed for cars the weigh ~4k and below.

Not in anyway suggesting it's not up to the task - but it's dubious (to me).