Insanity inside - you have been warned.
- Thread starter BKCowGod
- Start date
\whowey said:
My guess would be, tentatively, no, simply because the engine swap proposed would use a drive system from a different brand, class, and year of vehicle, which system was not available as an option during the year of manufacture of the FSJ, and for which no standards exist against which to readily test the result other than generic clean air standards for the year of manufacture of the vehicle, not the engine.
However, California and a few other places allow an alternative emissions test procedure using a clean room to establish actual output at various engine speeds, intended to allow such engine swaps -- all part of the clean air act nonsense. I have not personally done this, but lots of folks have, sometimes putting the strangest engines into their vehicles, i.e., Viper V-10's in Wranglers and so on. These swaps are usually extremely expensive because of the documentation and test process, and the fact that it is nearly impossible for the ordinary citizen to negotiate the bureaucratic obstacles involved. A licensed, experienced swap shop may be able to do what you propose. I would at least talk to one first before spending any cash on the project. In addition to the drive line parts discussed, you will likely also need to install any and all emission related parts from the donor vehicle, and the burden will be on you to demonstrate that each part is present, functional, and appropriate, including any evaporative devices, engine controls, exhaust components and so on. Diesels are simpler in this regard than gas engines these days, but they are not naked either.
Remember, it has very, very little to do with clean air, and all to do with the misconceptions of a power hungry but brainless bureaucracy. I would investigate the process before even staring to dream about which power plant to install. In the end, it will be worlds cheaper to buy a new Dodge than to transplant one under an old Jeep.
Unless you live in a precinct that does not require emissions tests, and you don't commute into one that does.
Haggis
Appalachian Ridgerunner
BKCowGod said:
*Part Time; will be easier on the front alxe especially if you use manual hubs
*ABS if it isn't to big of a pain to make it work on the J2000. That diesel gonna add some weight.
*I'd say at least 33's, no more than 35s, both 12.5 ". Since it is going to be an expo rig 37s and bigger aren't really necessary in my opinion.
MoGas
Central Scrutinizer
I had a Grand Wagoneer before my Land Cruiser. I miss it sometimes, but not the mileage. I am happy with my 12mpg I get in the Cruiser. Do you know about the International Full Size Jeep Association?There is lots of good stuff over there.
Here is my old rig:
Here is my old rig:
MoGas
Central Scrutinizer
I had put a part time NP208J case in mine. Total bolt in except I needed to lengthen the rear shaft due to the case being shorter than the NP229 (No viscous coupler in the 208) I may have another 208J case that would need gone through. If you are interested, let me know.
I also had:
"Tadsal" roof rack. (search ifsja)
Rough Country 3 inch lift (all springs, no blocks)
31s
Warn hubs
Factory sunroof
cargo barrier
factory brush guard
4.10s with a lock right in the back and a limited slip in front
SS brake hoses
It was fun and like I said, I do miss it sometimes.
:safari-rig:
Dave
I also had:
"Tadsal" roof rack. (search ifsja)
Rough Country 3 inch lift (all springs, no blocks)
31s
Warn hubs
Factory sunroof
cargo barrier
factory brush guard
4.10s with a lock right in the back and a limited slip in front
SS brake hoses
It was fun and like I said, I do miss it sometimes.
:safari-rig:
Dave
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
Did not know that about the mil 6.5 pump, though it seems obvious now that I know of it. Wonder how hard it would be to render in-op?
CA's rules on engine swaps requires equal or newer engine than the vehicle's vintage when a gasser. Diesel is still considered to be an alternate fuel source. Not sure how that changes things.
I'm not up to date on the exact in's and out's of a diesel swap, but I wouldn't expect it to require more than a trip the BAR referee station to be certified that it has any emissions equip that may have come on the engine and to be labeled as a diesel. With a pre OBD II engine and vehicle (pre '96) the equipment requirements are more lax. Only engine mounted parts need be on the engine, and only the vehicle's chassis mounted parts need be on the chassis. With ODB II engines you need to bring ALL of the emissions parts, regardless of where mounted, to the project vehicle.
How does the 208J differ from a 208C? I have one of those (TH400 version) sitting on my driveway that I wouldn't mind being gone.
CA's rules on engine swaps requires equal or newer engine than the vehicle's vintage when a gasser. Diesel is still considered to be an alternate fuel source. Not sure how that changes things.
I'm not up to date on the exact in's and out's of a diesel swap, but I wouldn't expect it to require more than a trip the BAR referee station to be certified that it has any emissions equip that may have come on the engine and to be labeled as a diesel. With a pre OBD II engine and vehicle (pre '96) the equipment requirements are more lax. Only engine mounted parts need be on the engine, and only the vehicle's chassis mounted parts need be on the chassis. With ODB II engines you need to bring ALL of the emissions parts, regardless of where mounted, to the project vehicle.
How does the 208J differ from a 208C? I have one of those (TH400 version) sitting on my driveway that I wouldn't mind being gone.
Most of the rules pertaining to engine swaps stop with vehicles manufactures prior to 1968, not 1972 (they do in Arizona). Check California regulations.
i.e., California Amendments...
Date, 1965
Motor Vehicle Air Pollution Control Act (amendments of the Clean Air Act) set the first federal emission standards beginning with the 1968 models (which were the same standards California had set for their 1966 models. These standards were reductions from the 1963 emissions: 72% reduction for hydrocarbons (HC), 56% reduction for carbon monoxide (CO), and 100% reduction for crankcase hydrocarbons.
i.e., California Amendments...
Date, 1965
Motor Vehicle Air Pollution Control Act (amendments of the Clean Air Act) set the first federal emission standards beginning with the 1968 models (which were the same standards California had set for their 1966 models. These standards were reductions from the 1963 emissions: 72% reduction for hydrocarbons (HC), 56% reduction for carbon monoxide (CO), and 100% reduction for crankcase hydrocarbons.
Last edited:
BKCowGod
Automotive ADHD is fun!
I guess I should have specified - there are no INSPECTIONS or REQUIREMENTS for inspections.
Technically I should still have a charcoal canister and that big 'ol carb may be illegal too. But nobody will ever look, even if I am pulled over and open the hood and tell a cop "look, there is an illegal engine in there. I rock."
I know because I have done it before with my 1970 BMW 2002 that had zero stock parts, a fully race prepared engine, and no mufflers or interior.
Technically I should still have a charcoal canister and that big 'ol carb may be illegal too. But nobody will ever look, even if I am pulled over and open the hood and tell a cop "look, there is an illegal engine in there. I rock."
I know because I have done it before with my 1970 BMW 2002 that had zero stock parts, a fully race prepared engine, and no mufflers or interior.
Nice to see someone else building a fsj on here.
You might look into the isuzu diesel. It's pretty peppy and the adapter to a th400 isn't too bad. You would have to use a chevy th400, but there are all sorts of transfer case options to go behind it. A 205 would be my suggestion behind a diesel unless you want to pop for an expensive case.
You might look into the isuzu diesel. It's pretty peppy and the adapter to a th400 isn't too bad. You would have to use a chevy th400, but there are all sorts of transfer case options to go behind it. A 205 would be my suggestion behind a diesel unless you want to pop for an expensive case.
BKCowGod
Automotive ADHD is fun!
update - finally unstuck the valve (I LOVE SeaFoam!!!!!) and took it for a nice drive from Ben Lomond (santa cruz) to my house in San Jose.
In (rough) order:
Rhino lining of bed
Refinishing of magnesium wheels
Refinishing of steel wheels for A/T 31's
Neutralization of the TWO rust spots anywhere on the truck
Gut interior and repaint
Refoam and reupholster seat, new carpet, headliner. And lots of dynamat.
Electrical system. Whenever a wire melted, the PO just left the bare copper and put new wire around it...
Custom GPS/Radio/gauge cluster hidden behind the glovebox
then on to the actual swap
In (rough) order:
Rhino lining of bed
Refinishing of magnesium wheels
Refinishing of steel wheels for A/T 31's
Neutralization of the TWO rust spots anywhere on the truck
Gut interior and repaint
Refoam and reupholster seat, new carpet, headliner. And lots of dynamat.
Electrical system. Whenever a wire melted, the PO just left the bare copper and put new wire around it...
Custom GPS/Radio/gauge cluster hidden behind the glovebox
then on to the actual swap
Funrover
Expedition Leader
That is a beautiful truck, I have a weakspot for those classics!! I think you are going the right way. I would look into doing a few swaps. First go for the 5.9 cummins, this IMO, is the best diesel out there. Next is running set up. A full time 4wd will hurt your MPG's more that a selectable case. That depends on what you prefer, the full time 4 in my rover has been very nice, but I also like the ability to be in 2WD like my cherokee. Another idea would be to get the axles and suspension from a 94 - 02 ram diesel. The coils on the front would be very nice to have for the comfort level alone, leafs can be a PITA! I am sure you are doing pleanty of reasearch on it.
I have a 65 Dodge truck that I am going to do something similar with one day, and from what I find the 5.9 cummins, 6 speed manual, Dana 80 rear/60 front axles ( not to mention that gives you 4 wheel disc.. no drums) and coil suspension (front) just seems to be the best set up!
I have a 65 Dodge truck that I am going to do something similar with one day, and from what I find the 5.9 cummins, 6 speed manual, Dana 80 rear/60 front axles ( not to mention that gives you 4 wheel disc.. no drums) and coil suspension (front) just seems to be the best set up!
Haggis
Appalachian Ridgerunner
BKCowGod said:
The Rhino lining will be worth every penny. After the amount of stuff thats been loaded and dumped into my trucks bed my Rhino lining has held up great other than it's getting a little faded. Deer blood darkens it right back up though. Have you thought about having the rockers lined also. I had that done to my truck (color matched) and I've been real happy with it. You don't even hear the rocks flinging off the rockers.
Oh, you got to keep those mags, the cool factor would drop significially if you put newer style rims on.
Last edited: