NMC_EXP
Explorer
Wow.
My '93 Dodge W250, extended cab, long bed with a 6BT Cummins and factory heavy suspension with a 2200 lb payload weighs just over 6,000 lb.
I used to have a '62 Dodge M37-B1 military 3/4 ton and it weighed 5,917 lb.
Is my Jeep too heavy?
- Thread starter MattJ
- Start date
Wow.
My '93 Dodge W250, extended cab, long bed with a 6BT Cummins and factory heavy suspension with a 2200 lb payload weighs just over 6,000 lb.
I used to have a '62 Dodge M37-B1 military 3/4 ton and it weighed 5,917 lb.
MattJ
Adventurer
Yep - it adds up quick. 35" wheels, AEV bumpers, winch, dual batteries, rock sliders, skid plating, roof rack, windshield light bar, recovery gear . . .
Hopefully this thread is a great resource to others who are considering upgrades and armor for their vehicles. Lots to think about!
Hopefully this thread is a great resource to others who are considering upgrades and armor for their vehicles. Lots to think about!
billiebob
Well-known member
Yes, after many years of building Jeeps I've finally started to remove everything after market and get back to a fully stock, unlifted Rubicon with light skinny tires. A few guys laugh at it but I'll take 22mpg, a smoother ride, and more reliability any day. And I keep looking for ways to reduce the weight.
Finally beyond the stupidity of ego and marketing I am going back to my roots of hot rodding, racing and rallying when every change had to reduce weight.
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MattJ
Adventurer
Yes - time for a HEMI swap! 
There’s no better solution for Too Many Upgrades than More Upgrades.
In seriousness though, I am surprised at how well my JKU has handled the weight. I’m sure that will decline rapidly with age and miles. Just got back from a glorious week-long safari through the North Maine Woods and could not have been more impressed with how the Jeep and trailer handled the severe terrain and long distances day after day. Can‘t wait to go back.
There’s no better solution for Too Many Upgrades than More Upgrades.In seriousness though, I am surprised at how well my JKU has handled the weight. I’m sure that will decline rapidly with age and miles. Just got back from a glorious week-long safari through the North Maine Woods and could not have been more impressed with how the Jeep and trailer handled the severe terrain and long distances day after day. Can‘t wait to go back.
wjeeper
Active member
Mods sure do snowball out of control fast don't they? What ratio are you running in the axles? Gearing really helps overcome a lack of power. Which is a problem my rig has with how its outfitted........I am gonna be putting it on a diet this year!
MattJ
Adventurer
4.10 - that’s how the Rubicon comes geared. I think the AEV suspension and hi-steer kit help a LOT too. Weakest link is the brakes, I think. So I definitely maintain safe stopping distances.
I know I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I also have been VERY impressed with the Helwig rear anti-sway bar I installed. Would recommend it to anyone with a RTT installed.
I know I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I also have been VERY impressed with the Helwig rear anti-sway bar I installed. Would recommend it to anyone with a RTT installed.
Cascade Wanderer
Adventurer
A few years back, I changed from a full size Dodge Ram pickup to a 2-door JK. Had to make some adjustments! After a couple of years of always going with just light backpacking gear, I picked up a great used Jackwagon Basecamp trailer. It's simple, just an aluminum box on a steel frame with Timbren suspension & trailer brakes. Honestly, I don't use the trailer for camping trips all that often, a couple of times a year. But when I want to set up a comfortable base camp & keep the Jeep mobile - it works out great!
The trailer has also proven to be a great way of hauling my kayak:
I think there's a lot of ways to make this work, and I enjoy keeping my Jeep pretty light & mobile, while having a good option for carrying more supplies & gear if desired. Oddly, my longest trip, a nearly 5,000 mile journey to Fairbanks and back, didn't include the trailer. I just camped light, with the little tent & stove. No problem.
Kids? They grew up and got their own trucks & Jeeps!
Guy
The trailer has also proven to be a great way of hauling my kayak:
I think there's a lot of ways to make this work, and I enjoy keeping my Jeep pretty light & mobile, while having a good option for carrying more supplies & gear if desired. Oddly, my longest trip, a nearly 5,000 mile journey to Fairbanks and back, didn't include the trailer. I just camped light, with the little tent & stove. No problem.
Kids? They grew up and got their own trucks & Jeeps!
Guy
MattJ
Adventurer
Great pics! Judging by the first one, it would be great to have you join the discussion on this thread too:
Test Results: Five Ways to Heat a Tent
I'm considering removing my Metalcloak steel Undercloak system and replacing it with aluminum skid plating instead. And switching both my Jeep and trailer to 33-inch wheels from 35-inch. I need to do the math, but I'm hoping that reduces my GVW by 200-300 pounds (at some cost to my trail capabilities, which will certainly suffer as a result). The only other solution that I can come up with is to switch to my soft top as soon as the weather permits each year, and remove the doors when I am planning severe rock-crawling. I thought through the list of other items, and decided it's not worth the cost/hassle of removing or replacing them: windshield lights and SPOD, AEV steel bumpers, dual battery system, roof rack and rock sliders.
Test Results: Five Ways to Heat a Tent
I'm considering removing my Metalcloak steel Undercloak system and replacing it with aluminum skid plating instead. And switching both my Jeep and trailer to 33-inch wheels from 35-inch. I need to do the math, but I'm hoping that reduces my GVW by 200-300 pounds (at some cost to my trail capabilities, which will certainly suffer as a result). The only other solution that I can come up with is to switch to my soft top as soon as the weather permits each year, and remove the doors when I am planning severe rock-crawling. I thought through the list of other items, and decided it's not worth the cost/hassle of removing or replacing them: windshield lights and SPOD, AEV steel bumpers, dual battery system, roof rack and rock sliders.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Most people don’t think about it until you find your self dodging a wreck in progress at highway speeds. Even empty many of the midsized 4x4 rigs can test every ounce of driving skill one has while trying to avoid a highway wreck.
That was the final hell no moment in my 4runner ownership. Getting up on two wheels at 65mph while trying to avoid getting hit by a gravel truck was sobering. 2 days later same damn freeway again up on two wheels avoiding a high speed chase suspect that nearly took me and 4 others out. The following week I was in a brand new Subaru Legacy GT. My trucks after that have all been full size, land cruiser, sequoia and now Expedition. I wouldn’t go back to mid sized unless we were towing our stuff 99% of the time or rarely doing long highway trips.
I’d tow my Jeep behind the Expedition lol
That was the final hell no moment in my 4runner ownership. Getting up on two wheels at 65mph while trying to avoid getting hit by a gravel truck was sobering. 2 days later same damn freeway again up on two wheels avoiding a high speed chase suspect that nearly took me and 4 others out. The following week I was in a brand new Subaru Legacy GT. My trucks after that have all been full size, land cruiser, sequoia and now Expedition. I wouldn’t go back to mid sized unless we were towing our stuff 99% of the time or rarely doing long highway trips.
I’d tow my Jeep behind the Expedition lol
shade
Well-known member
What's the weight difference between your current skid system and whatever aluminum replacement you're considering? Even on a diet, that's a heavy vehicle. I have 1/4" aluminum skids on my truck, and they can take a hit, but I don't take my truck through stuff that's likely to put much weight on the skids. If you like to rock crawl at all, you'll probably be happier with your current skids.
Reducing wheel/tyre size will probably result in more weight loss, increased stability, and generally better performance than whatever you gain with aluminum skids, too.
shade
Well-known member
Agreed. A lot of weight and performance is tied up in wheel & tyres.
Unless the width is really needed for the terrain, wide tyres don't offer anything past appearance points, IMO.
luthj
Engineer In Residence
Increasing the track width reduces weight transfer when cornering. Solid axle dynamics are bit different, so body roll angle will remain unchanged.
Widening the track with spacers or wheels puts more stress on the axles and especially the steering. Once you change the relationship between the kingpin axis and the wheel center, you are affecting steering dynamics, effort, and transient response.
Jeep wranglers have one of the worst rollover risks of any vehicle. Its something like 28%, which most trucks are lower at sub 22%. Thats in stock form. Before they are lifted, plastered with heavy gear, roof top tents, lifts, tall soft tires, and had the sway bars removed.
Both track width and COG factor linearly into the max cornering speed. Raise the CG by 20%, and the rollover cornering speed (theoretical) drops 20%. The inverse applies to track width. This does not take into account weight transfer, tire effects, and road variances, its just a snapshot of the cornering speed where the vehicle will tip over. Its a useful reference for how changes to a vehicle will impact the safe maneuvering speed.
Rasing the COG by 25% (not unusual with RTTS, roof racks, lifts etc), then removing sway bars, and using lower tire pressures, can result in the high speed maneuver performance dropping by 40% or more. It may not seem like a big deal until you need to avoid an animal at speed, and find yourself on two wheels...
Related, here is the euro safety assessment for the wrangler. Note the offset barrier test. Possible life altering injuries even at modest speeds. Not typical for modern vehicles, and easily avoidable with good design. I imagine the results would be much worse with another 2,500 of payload.
www.euroncap.com
Widening the track with spacers or wheels puts more stress on the axles and especially the steering. Once you change the relationship between the kingpin axis and the wheel center, you are affecting steering dynamics, effort, and transient response.
Jeep wranglers have one of the worst rollover risks of any vehicle. Its something like 28%, which most trucks are lower at sub 22%. Thats in stock form. Before they are lifted, plastered with heavy gear, roof top tents, lifts, tall soft tires, and had the sway bars removed.
Both track width and COG factor linearly into the max cornering speed. Raise the CG by 20%, and the rollover cornering speed (theoretical) drops 20%. The inverse applies to track width. This does not take into account weight transfer, tire effects, and road variances, its just a snapshot of the cornering speed where the vehicle will tip over. Its a useful reference for how changes to a vehicle will impact the safe maneuvering speed.
Rasing the COG by 25% (not unusual with RTTS, roof racks, lifts etc), then removing sway bars, and using lower tire pressures, can result in the high speed maneuver performance dropping by 40% or more. It may not seem like a big deal until you need to avoid an animal at speed, and find yourself on two wheels...
Related, here is the euro safety assessment for the wrangler. Note the offset barrier test. Possible life altering injuries even at modest speeds. Not typical for modern vehicles, and easily avoidable with good design. I imagine the results would be much worse with another 2,500 of payload.
Official Jeep Wrangler safety rating
Euro NCAP safety rating of the Jeep Wrangler: detailed results, crash test pictures, videos and comments from experts
www.euroncap.com
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MattJ
Adventurer
Thanks! Some good photos (and plenty of discussion and debate) here:
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/modified-jk-tech-2/255-80-17-km2s-2dr-jk-wrangler-233667/