Is my Jeep too heavy?

[luthj]

F250s also have rollover problems, the wrangler is just the poster child for rollover and stability issues when fully loaded (short wheelbase etc).

so basically what i am hearing is that if i want a RTT, make sure and get full steel underskids to offset the weight.

They would help to keep the CG lower, but lots of weight means long braking distances. You could argue that a short braking distance is equally as important as a lower CG.

My basic view. Skip the RTT, or go with a very light one. Pack the gear down low, and keep it rational. Avoid heavy skids and bumpers unless your usage demands it. If your heavy bumpers are scuff and dent free, you likely aren't using them. Rational tire sizes (I know they give you the joygasms) with lighter wheels. Do not remove sway bars. Add a disconnect it you need it. Avoid softer springs (lower rate).

If you can't do all that, consider a properly sized trailer with brakes, or just get a full sized truck, van, SUV, etc.

 

[calicamper]

F250s also have rollover problems, the wrangler is just the poster child for rollover and stability issues when fully loaded (short wheelbase etc).



They would help to keep the CG lower, but lots of weight means long braking distances. You could argue that a short braking distance is equally as important as a lower CG.

My basic view. Skip the RTT, or go with a very light one. Pack the gear down low, and keep it rational. Avoid heavy skids and bumpers unless your usage demands it. If your heavy bumpers are scuff and dent free, you likely aren't using them. Rational tire sizes (I know they give you the joygasms) with lighter wheels. Do not remove sway bars. Add a disconnect it you need it. Avoid softer springs (lower rate).

If you can't do all that, consider a properly sized trailer with brakes, or just get a full sized truck, van, SUV, etc.

Highway distances matter in this topic also. Its one thing if your lucky and your top haunts are short trips. My trips are progressively getting farther out. Eastern Sierras is a 4-5 hour trek that can include 23% grades 100 degree temps. I learned real quick our J80 LC wasn’t cut out for that. So I moved to a 06 Sequoia. Last few yrs has been Yellowstone, Moab, Zion, etc those trips were 2500+ miles with lots of 70-80mph miles. The Sequoia was pretty good for that. But after our last trip we wanted something more modern. So now we have the 2019 Expedition. Its a whole new level of highway travel. LoL

All my short local stuff a JK, J80, heck my Subaru are all just fine options.

 

[sourdoughben]

No RTT issues with my big old heavy Coleman 6 person easyup tent...

 

[MattJ]

If your heavy bumpers are scuff and dent free, you likely aren't using them.

I was actually thinking I need to get impact guards for my fog lights .

 

[MOguy]

I was actually thinking I need to get impact guards for my fog lights .

And you will need some really heavy bumpers to hang them on.

And if you need lights that means you will travel at night and you will need a roof top tent to sleep in. Even though you are heading out just for the night or so you need 40 gallons of water, a pressurized water system and you will want to take a shower, a hot one, so you need a water heater. Dealing with all this will make you hungry and you don't want to waste space in a cooler with ice so you need a refrigerator. You might kill your battery so make sure you have a dual set up and a series of solar panels to keep it charged.

As you sit out enjoying your campfire ( don't forget an axe to cut your fire wood) and looking at all those beautiful stars you will have to have an awning. No awning is complete with out a table and lots of cool lights. You will need to budget in a crap load of money because you can't use regular bags and or totes, you need overlanidng ones. You will need special pots and pans to make your kitchen and no kitchen is complete without cabinets. Remember that frig you have? It needs some sort of roller out shelf thing that comes along with that cabinet system.

 

[calicamper]

?

 

[billiebob]

Like THIS?

And yet here in BC my insurance on a Wrangler is 30% less than insurance on pickup bacause the real life claims/risk is less. The Wrangler is rated safer than most other passenger vehicles because the odds of a driver dying are much less.... based on actual insurance claim data.

The highest risk vehicle for a driver fatality in a single vehicle accident is the Nissan 370ZX.

 

[G0to60]

The highest risk vehicle for a driver fatality in a single vehicle accident is the Nissan 370ZX.

Was that because the one person who actually bought a 370Z crashed it making it a 100%?

 

[billiebob]

Was that because the one person who actually bought a 370Z crashed it making it a 100%?

Well it is based on insurance data from across North America so ..... I think maybe more than one 370Z has been crashed over the 14 years of production. My take is if you are alone in a 370Z... you are likely taking chances, pushing the envelope. Same with pickups which are often company vehicles driven by employees in a rush to get home. But not so much with Wranglers which are seldom seen racing down Mulholland Drive or in a hurry to get to the bar.

The inference that a top heavy vehicle creates an unsafe vehicle is an old qives tale when one looks at the actual fatality or claims rate for any one vehicle. If you drive in a safe controlled defensive manner you can be safe in anything.

 

[luthj]

The lower insurance is probably related to lower miles driven. Its not a simple analysis regardless.

A quick search shows that a 2017 wrangler costs on average 154$ a month to insure. about 500$ higher than average.

The average cost of auto insurance for a Jeep Wrangler is $154 per month, or $1,848 a year. This estimate is roughly $500 higher than the national average.

Jeep Wrangler insurance rates

The average cost of Jeep Wrangler car insurance is $142.94 — or $1,715.28 a year — but if you compare car insurance rates you could pay even less.

www.finder.com

Driving in a defensive manner does not negate safety risks. You can't anticipate an animal on the road, someone crossing the center line etc. Those happen in fractions of a second. I highly doubt you drive at the ridiculously low speeds required to negate those risk.

It doesn't make these types of 4x4s a death trap, but its simple hubris to ignore the safety issues posed by the equipping of a vehicle.

 

[jadmt]

I pay insurance on 3 vehicles 2018 wrangler rubicon recon, 2016 crv touring and 2017 civic LX and the Civic is by far the most expensive to insure. The jeep and crv are about the same but I have a 0 deductible glass coverage on the Jeep which I have used several times as wrangle windshields are rock magnets.

 

[billiebob]

I pay $840 for plates and insurance on a Rubicon and drive 24K miles a year.
A pickup with identical coverage and use would cost $1160.

I almost bought a pickup for work but that difference made me reconsider.

And the insurance girl showed me those other statistics.
I've driven lots of inferior, top heavy rigs. It is the driver who kills, not the vehicle.
The Wrangler is built like a brick. But keep it legal.

Ultimately accident crash testing is a controlled environment.
Insurance statistics are real world data.
I call the Wrangler one of the safest vehicles made, so does the data.

And hypothetical conjecture on an internet forum is hypothetical conjecture.

 

[luthj]

Wrangler fatal accident rates were 3.6 per billion miles in 2017. That's 2x the average rate for sport utility vehicles. It's not much clearer than that.

Take look at the rollover death rates. Very significant.

Driver death rates by make and model

One way to compare the relative safety of vehicles is to look at driver death rates.

www.iihs.org

 

[billiebob]

Wrangler fatal accident rates were 3.6 per billion miles in 2017. That's 2x the average rate for sport utility vehicles. It's not much clearer than that.

Take look at the rollover death rates. Very significant.

Driver death rates by make and model

One way to compare the relative safety of vehicles is to look at driver death rates.

www.iihs.org

man o man, them Chevys are freaking coffins

 

[Thinman]

aren't those numbers pre-side airbags? (for the wranglers)