Is the design of the 3.9/4.0/4.2/4.6 inherently bad?

[David Harris]

Well, obviously. Of course.

Unless that ticking just happens to be something more serious like a slipping liner, bearing problem, piston problem, etc. So you just ignore it assuming it's just a typical crappy Rover valve train, and then one day you get stranded.

I do a complete engine tear-down with every oil change, just to be sure. It's just regular preventative maintenance on a Rover. If you aren't willing to do maintenance work like this, I guess Rover ownership just isn't for you.

So why not get rid of the truck rather than whine about it?

 

[proper4wd]

I won't go into a diatribe of what constitutes maintenance. It's pretty simple... take care of it.

On a basic level I think you either get it or you don't. Maybe my perspective is skewed because I have been around Rovers pretty exclusively since before I was old enough to drive. I certainly understand how someone with a different background, coming from Toyotas or Jeeps or GM's, may see things differently. But simply put, those brands can't be compared to a Land Rover in terms of an ownership experience.

I have always equated these things to other British marques (Jaguar, Rolls Royce, MG) or other boutique European brands. It's the charm and draw of the damn things. I don't think anyone would be complaining about having to perform intensive maintenance on their 1994 Corniche or 1987 XJ6 or 2003 Arnage or 1991 Testarossa for that matter. Maintenance and repairs are a responsibility that comes with owning such a vehicle.

 

[David Harris]

I won't go into a diatribe of what constitutes maintenance. It's pretty simple... take care of it.

On a basic level I think you either get it or you don't. Maybe my perspective is skewed because I have been around Rovers pretty exclusively since before I was old enough to drive. I certainly understand how someone with a different background, coming from Toyotas or Jeeps or GM's, may see things differently. But simply put, those brands can't be compared to a Land Rover in terms of an ownership experience.

I have always equated these things to other British marques (Jaguar, Rolls Royce, MG) or other boutique European brands. It's the charm and draw of the damn things. I don't think anyone would be complaining about having to perform intensive maintenance on their 1994 Corniche or 1987 XJ6 or 2003 Arnage or 1991 Testarossa for that matter. Maintenance and repairs are part of the ownership process.

Well said. These are enthusiast vehicles. People love them for their unique character and the experience of driving them, not because they are the most reliable vehicles in the world. With that said, in my opinion and experience as an owner of several, they are reliable enough to go anywhere, anytime when cared for.

 

[proper4wd]

With that said, in my opinion and experience as an owner of several, they are reliable enough to go anywhere, anytime when cared for.

This is my experience as well. I have only twice been left stranded by a Land Rover and one of those times was my own fault.

 

[getlost4x4]

i've taken many 1000+ mile trips in my P38 and its never left me stranded.

And i removed the biggest problem on the vehicle: EAS. get rid of that crap and its damn reliable as long as you don't make a submarine out of it.:snorkel:

 

[proper4wd]

I remember when I was much younger all of the Land Rover bumper stickers and t-shirts you would see...

"All parts falling off this vehicle are of the finest British craftsmanship"
"I'd rather push a Land Rover than drive a Jeep"
"Lucas: The Prince of Darkness"
"Land Rover: If its not leaking oil, its probably empty"

The traits of these vehicles used to be embraced... Something happened... (right around when the Discovery II became popular)

 

[Oilburner]

So I guess what you are saying is that the Rover V8 is a bad design, but real enthusiasts put up with it?

 

[Red90]

It is not a bad design. It is a 1960s design and a good one for the time. Obviously in 50 years some better designs have been made. All the people here comparing a modern engine to one of these has lost the plot.

 

[Oilburner]

... And someone who sees the original 3.5L 2 bolt main carburetted rover V8 with a distributor as the same design as 4.6 Bosch cross-bolted distributorless EFI engine hasn't? For the record, I agree that the original 3.5 was a solid engine for its time but this thread is for the design of 3.9/42/4.0/4.6 engines, all of which are from the late 80s and up.

 

[Red90]

There were improvements, but the same basic main parts of the engine design remained unchanged.

 

[Frontier Phreak]

So why not get rid of the truck rather than whine about it?

Because I love everything else about it. Only the engine lets it down. Hopefully it won't be in there forever. I actually hope it lets go so I have an excuse to replace it, I just hope it's not too far of a tow when it does.

Maybe I missed something, but this thread IS specifically questioning the reliability of the engine right? This isn't the "I love doing maintenance on my Rover V8 thread", right? No? Ok, so I've come to the right place to whine about this crappy engine.

I have always equated these things to other British marques (Jaguar, Rolls Royce, MG) or other boutique European brands. It's the charm and draw of the damn things. I don't think anyone would be complaining about having to perform intensive maintenance on their 1994 Corniche or 1987 XJ6 or 2003 Arnage or 1991 Testarossa for that matter. Maintenance and repairs are a responsibility that comes with owning such a vehicle.

Because typically people don't drive those cars very far. So I guess that's one potential differentiator between those who complain about the engine, and those who think it's fine. Are you actually going to far away places with the truck? Or just driving it on Sundays to the local British car meet? Maintaining a British car is a hobby unto itself. 90% maintenance time, 10% driving. I want that reversed, 10/90, or better. I use my truck to take my places. I didn't buy it so I could join a club.

People love them for their unique character and the experience of driving them, not because they are the most reliable vehicles in the world.

No, I love it because it's got more storage space and passenger room than any other off-road capable truck I've seen. It is not a full-size truck so it actually fits on trails where I life. It has extremely good seats, and good ergonomics. It's got a great greenhouse, and visibility. It does not have a GM interior. Nor is it based on a Ford Ranger chassis. It has full-time AWD, and 4WD. And a great Traction Control system actually meant for off-road use (ie: does not kill engine power at the first hint of wheelspin). The brakes and steering are excellent, for a truck. I could go on and on about reasons I love it.

But it deserves a better engine.

It is not a bad design. It is a 1960s design and a good one for the time. Obviously in 50 years some better designs have been made. All the people here comparing a modern engine to one of these has lost the plot.

Yes, it was so great, GM cancelled the design after just 3 years of production. You're right though. What was I thinking expecting a modern engine in a 2004 model year vehicle? That was obviously my mistake.

 

[proper4wd]

The design of the 3.9/4.2/4.0/4.6 is just fine.

The problem is that in the 40 years the engine was produced, the design didnt evolve as much as owners' expectations evolved.

Just because it leaks a little oil, makes some ticking noises, doesnt have as much power, and doesnt get great fuel economy... Doesn't mean theres something wrong with it.

Look at it on the plus side: what other engine, in a 2004 vehicle, could you field strip down to the block and rotating assembly while still mounted in the chassis, using a pretty limited selection of basic hand tools? And then re-assemble? Maybe a Jeep 4.0 inline 6, not anything else I can think of.

 

[Frontier Phreak]

Look at it on the plus side: what other engine, in a 2004 vehicle, could you field strip down to the block and rotating assembly while still mounted in the chassis, using a pretty limited selection of basic hand tools? And then re-assemble? Maybe a Jeep 4.0 inline 6, not anything else I can think of.

Conversely, what other engine would you have to?

Ever seen a forum post from the Toyota guys "Help, I need to field strip my engine, but I can't get this bolt out!" Go to any Rover forum and it's littered with posts about blown engines.

Besides which, pretty much any inline engine would be easy to disassemble in the field, don't even need to take the intake and exhaust manifolds off usually.

And you ain't gonna be installing top hat liners in the field.

 

[long dong silver]

Conversely, what other engine would you have to?

Ever seen a forum post from the Toyota guys "Help, I need to field strip my engine, but I can't get this bolt out!" Go to any Rover forum and it's littered with posts about blown engines.

Besides which, pretty much any inline engine would be easy to disassemble in the field, don't even need to take the intake and exhaust manifolds off usually.

And you ain't gonna be installing top hat liners in the field.

Bosch v8s have problems, I'll never own a rover with that setup. The GEMS and earlier stuff is great as long as you maintain the cooling system, and sometimes that means paying 3X as much for a replacement radiator as any other brand. I think 2nd and 3rd generation owners who paid 1/20 the sticker price of the vehicle find it hard to spend almost 1/4 the purchase price on a radiator and the overheating begins.

Other than the cooling system these are very durable vehicles in stock form.

Every engine has a weakness, the rover weakness just happens to be suicidal if not addressed.

the last of the GM small blocks had coolant sealing issues on the intake that would trash the block if not addressed
the current crop has awful piston slap on just about every other truck over 70k

I've helped multiple friends do headgasket or replacement block on 22re, they do NOT last forever

I've replaced 2 AMC I6's with rod knock to the point where it would throw if driven much more, and the crank sensor on the EFI versions will eventually leave you stranded.

 

[proper4wd]

I think 2nd and 3rd generation owners who paid 1/20 the sticker price of the vehicle find it hard to spend almost 1/4 the purchase price on a radiator and the overheating begins.

Truth.