Jackknifing on the trail

[matt s]

Curious I never hear anyone talk about this. But these short trailers will jackknife in a heart beat when backing up.

It's on my mind as I have been involved in two such situations in the last month or so. The first was a large car hauler trailer behind an F-350 where we didn't make it up a steep icy hill. The only option was to try and back down. Too heavy to drop the trailer and nothing to control the trailers decent if we did. So as you guessed the truck lost traction and quickly sent the trailer off the side of the road and luckily no damage was done.

The second I was driving and had a full dump load in my little cargo trailer and the blazer full up too. I couldn't see out the back and was backing with the mirrors. I lost the trailer out of the driver side mirror and before I could even check the other it had come all the way around on the passenger side and hit! Wasn't going fast at all but short trailer on short wheelbase means you have little time to react.

To the point: This got me wondering about getting offroad with a trailer (have considered taking my little cargo trailer along now and then) and losing traction on a muddy climb or simply having to back out of an obstacle. What are you guys doing to prevent this, or to prevent damage when it does happen?

 

[dirty Bakers]

My father and I both have m416 trailers. This last fall we were on a road that require almost jackknifing to get around a few obstacles. Also at one point we both had to drop our trailers to turn around. The factory parking brake proved indispensable.

 

[mtnbike28]

Drop it...

So far I have only been on one trail that required backing out of it (thankfully!!!) There is no way I could back out of a tight trail, so I pulled over as far as I could, chocked the wheels, did the 80 point K turn, and pushed the trailer around. The Conqueror is light enough (or is it balance) that even in most dirt, I can man handle it around.

The experience was enough that I do not plan to tow it west on my CD trip...

 

[Martyn]

There are obviously huge advantages of having at trailer that turns quickly when reversed. It's all about controlling the turn and a matter of practice. Of course it's best to get the practice done before you head out on the trail, in a controlled environment like an empty parking lot.

Once you get the control down the nimbleness of the trailer is an advantage, until you get to that point it's a hazard.

If you do have to drop the trailer it's wise to chock the trailer wheels first, and then maneuver it into a better position. A few things help when maneuvering by hand, the tongue weight isn't excessive, you have a wheel on the tongue jack, and the ground it not too soft.

On occasion where I haven't had any luck moving the trailer by hand I've attached it to the tow vehicle by the safety chains, or used the safety chains as the anchor point on the trailer, repositioned the tow vehicle and then dragged the trailer to a new position.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

My Trail-Trailer is setup to rest against the bumper of the Land Cruiser at full jack, so I can and have 'pushed' it short distances if needed. Its neither ideal nor advised but it beats having to unhitch and hand haul the trailer particularly if your on a hill or on uneven terrain.

 

[Redline]

I've owned (still own) a few trailers. The orig. post and Martyn make valid points as to the pros/cons of a short wheelbase trailer. Though I'm skilled at backing trailers, the short ones can be a challenge and I do prefer a slightly longer, more forgiving length.

When I owned my AT Chaser I had a removable tongue extension made which allowed me to open my long tire swing-away. I also liked the way the short Chaser towed and reversed with the 2-ft+ extension. In at least one situation/tight switchback on the Laurel Lakes trail, the longer tongue was a big help.

Toward the end of the trail there is a fairly tight switchback. When arriving I choose to pull forward and reverse down the next section of road. The longer wheelbase surely made the long reverse easier. When leaving two days later, I was able to purposely 'jack knife' the trailer more than I could have without the extension, and make it around the tight switchback with limited maneuvering. I only reversed once if I remember correctly. My friend behind me in his Land Cruiser pulling his Chaser without a tongue extension needed to back and pull forward a few times.

 

[matt s]

There are obviously huge advantages of having at trailer that turns quickly when reversed. It's all about controlling the turn and a matter of practice. Of course it's best to get the practice done before you head out on the trail, in a controlled environment like an empty parking lot.

Once you get the control down the nimbleness of the trailer is an advantage, until you get to that point it's a hazard.

If you do have to drop the trailer it's wise to chock the trailer wheels first, and then maneuver it into ....

Agreed, and my moment of stupidity aside, I actually have considerable time jockeying trailers of all sizes.

While being able to drop it is obviously best (and the tow chain trick is a good one too) I was really thinking about those times where momentum is lost and then you start heading back the way you came, the slippery way.

Then again if that is a real possibility perhaps better judgement would have found another route or turned around ;-)

My Trail-Trailer is setup to rest against the bumper of the Land Cruiser at full jack, so I can and have 'pushed' it short distances if needed. Its neither ideal nor advised but it beats having to unhitch and hand haul the trailer particularly if your on a hill or on uneven terrain.

This is along the lines of what I was getting at. I thought my trailer would have hit my steel bumper, but I discovered the hard way it makes it around the corner by one inch. Doh!

I would have been thrilled to bang up the trailer a bit or push it instead of putting a dent in my rear quarter. I am not likely to do it, but have considered welding on some sort of stops that would hit the bumper and stop the jackknife at 90 degrees.

 

[Martyn]

Electric brakes are an enormous advantage when backing down a hill off road. The electric brakes work in reverse as well as forward. They can be adjusted up to work with more force, they can work in conjunction with the vehicle brakes, or operated separately with hand controls.

Having a trailer pulling you backwards down a hill is never an easy moment, but having brakes on all six wheels works wonderfully. On the other hand being pulled down the hill by the trailer with only brakes on the vehicle is not so wonderful.

 

[Borrego60]

I drive big rigs and the secret is to practice alot.The shorter the trailer the faster it will respond while backing up. Long or short it makes no difference to me been driving 18yrs. When backing up go slow,if the trailer drifts towards the driver side turn the top of the steering wheel to the side the trailer drifts to and vise a versa. it just takes practice and make small adjustments. If the trailer turns to far stop because trying to correct after a certain point is usless.Do a pull up and start again. Just my two cents worth. Doubles ya I can back em but will not go there.

 

[Curtis in Texas]

If I may, I'd like to show a teaser picture of my off road trailer build I have going now that will address that issue!
I think my next trailer will address that jack knifing problem.
In fact, it will address the issue of having to make wide turns to keep the trailer from hitting obstacles on the way up.
Here's a teaser shot of the base frame.
I apologize for not painting the frame before I posted up pictures.
It will get soda blasted clean and painted when the weather warms up.

I have the base frame made and am trying to figure out what box I'm going to put on it. I want to carry my dirt bike and sleep in it too!
Thinking of building a box like Stomper XJ's for it, only larger, with a large hatch back that will allow me to load my bike in the back and have a drop down bed off the side wall.
Before you guys ask I'll throw out a few facts so you'll know I'm serious about this build.

The suspension is independent and steerable!
Steering will be by a 400 lb. electric actuator powered by a battery in the trailer.
Steering control will be with a wireless remote control.
The battery will be charged by the tow rig through a 7 pin trailer connector.
The floor is 4' W X 8' L feet long.
I built the 360 degree lunette on the tongue!
The tongue is a 2" receiver so I can use a 2" trailer ball if I want for a quick hookup to other vehicles other than my Expedition Rodeo.
Adding electric brakes will be the biggest obstacle as it has disc on it now.
(I'm addressing that problem now.)
It has a 22 gallon fuel tank and will transfer either to the tow rig or bike with an electric fuel pump.
It will have a 15 gallon water tank between the forward frame rails.
Plans are to build a Patrol Box Kitchen that will hang off the side of the trailer when parked with a sink and stove top built in.
The patrol box will slide into the rear on the floor once the bike is loaded.
All lighting will be LED. And it will eventually have a solar panel on the roof.

My Trail Trailer is longer than most of the ones here, but I feel I can get away with it because I will be able to maneuver around trees and such. It will have a wireless remote control steering, so no fancy complicated in cab wiring to make it turn. Any tow rig will be able to tow and maneuver my trailer as long as they have the remote.
The air shocks the suspension will be tunable for the load.

I've alluded to this build in some of my other post.
Forgive the hijack, but I think some of you might want to consider this as an option to jack knifing while backing up.

I'll do a build write up once I get a little further along with the box.
It will be well documented!

Thanks for reading!

CJ

 

[Dr. Jones]

I've also thought about having steering on a trailer, but haven't actually gone through with it. I'll be way interested in seeing how yours turns out. :bowdown:

 

[Newtac11]

If using a wireless "remote" control unit for steering, ensure you are able to manually lock the wheels straight, and turn of power to steering. I say this because there are a lot of faulty transmitters out there. This could cause your steering system to receive a signal from an outside source and make a hard turn at highway speeds...I wouldn't want to read about that in the paper.

 

[Curtis in Texas]

If using a wireless "remote" control unit for steering, ensure you are able to manually lock the wheels straight, and turn of power to steering. I say this because there are a lot of faulty transmitters out there. This could cause your steering system to receive a signal from an outside source and make a hard turn at highway speeds...I wouldn't want to read about that in the paper.

Sorry, I'm really not an idiot, but I did stay at the Holiday Inn last night!

I have considered the what if's! And since your point is a valid one, I'll explain in case others might be thinking of following my lead.
After all this is the Internet and I've seen some scary stuff made because some young "wanna be" kid thought they could copy a good idea, only they don't have a clue.

It will have a manual highway electric lock out switch that will kill power to the steering system for highway use. It will also have a cam lock device much like an emergency brake handle that will lock the steering control arm in straight position until trail time. Kinda like having Vice Grip Pliers on the control rod. Not to mention there will be a cable linkage to a pointer indicator mounted on the front of the trailer to show the position of the steering linkage. The trailer steering position indicater will be easily visible to the driver. This feature will be a trail only or parking option.
The last thing I would want is to cause an accident because I didn't plan for a failure of the system.

Your point of transmitter failer is not a foiegn subject to me. I'm a retired Power Company Technician and remote computer controlled power systems were my bread an butter for 36 years.
You really don't believe I hadn't thought of that did you? :coffeedrink:

Not to worry.
I'll disclose all of the build details, including safety features, on my Build Thread later.
Just wanted to throw out a teaser for those who think outside the box like me!
And address the OP's concerns about Jack Knifing Trailers.
It's all good Charles, and thanks for bringing that concern up and letting me keep the record straight.

CJ

 

[TacoDell]

^ that'd be worthy of my consideration...
if one could put some drive to those trailer wheels as well.

aka CAT 57's

 

[Curtis in Texas]

^ that'd be worthy of my consideration...
if one could put some drive to those trailer wheels as well.

aka CAT 57's

It's been done, but only on large Military type vehicles AFAIK!
I've put some thought to that too!
Even have parts for a prototype.
It is possible, but the biggest obstacle to a workable solution is power differentiation.

Think IFS front wheel drive system turned around backwards.
That's all I'm going to disclose on that idea right now.

But I will throw this out. If the power train involved hydraulic fluid drive to all wheels, vehicle and trailer, it would be a snap.