JK/JL Jeep Camper Concept

[Mules]

A little update on things:

We just got back from a nice camping test trip in the jeep camper. The habitat interior is only partially installed, and I still have a lot of habitat systems work to do, but we took a few days for a desert camping trip to meet up with family. It was a good time. Overall, the vehicle ran great and we averaged 19 mpg even with a lot of hills, so I’m pretty happy with that.

It was nice to test out all of my recent additions to the habitat, and the internal layout is getting pretty comfortable. Now that there is better internal habitat storage to keep things organized, it felt a lot less like car camping, so that was a big improvement. I look forward to getting the heater and refrigerator installed soon, but I think the next phase will probably be fabricating and installing the pop-top mechanism and installing the solar panels.

The new insulated carbon fiber roof was a nice upgrade, and with two windows open a little at night, there wasn’t any condensation, but the windows had to be open a little more than I would ideally like for cold weather, so I have a forced ventilation/heater idea that I want to try out.

Overall, things are much improved from our last trip, but I feel like some things still need work/iteration; like the new Hest Dually folding mattress wasn’t as comfortable as we were hoping. We liked the Mattress Insider Gel Foam Mattress + Froli Stars combination that we used in our Unimog habitat, but that combination doesn’t really work with this convertible bed/dinette. We might just need a totally different mattress, but first, I think I’ll try an under-mattress cushion under Hest mattress.

View attachment 817758

I don't know if these cushions will fit your layout, but they are exceptionally comfortable to sit on and sleep on. Even though I have a memory foam mattress upstairs, these are more comfortable to lay on and relatively inexpensive. Half the time I sleep downstairs on them instead. I think bench cushions are better quality and denser than mattresses, so you don't bottom out when sleeping on them.

RecPro Charles RV Dinette Booth Cushions with Memory Foam

Upgrade your RV dinette with RecPro's easy-to-clean dinette booth cushions. Available in five color options, these memory foam cushions are the perfect addition to your on-the-go lifestyle.

www.recpro.com

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Cool, thanks. I'll check them out.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

I meant to post this update a week or two ago, but I've been super busy lately, and I somehow forgot to post it.......

Anyway, since our latest test trip, I’ve been looking forward to finishing our pop-top roof. Yvonne and I considered both wedge and vertical tops, and we decided that a simple front-hinge wedge roof would be practical and lightweight for us.

When looking at available hinges, I didn’t find any hinge options that were quite what I wanted, so I decided to make my own custom hinges that integrated well with our forward wall. I’ve used CAD for 30 years, but I decided that it would be fun to design the hinges with pencil and paper. Although a bit less efficient, drafting by hand just feels more creative to me compared to computer work.

I designed the hinges like clevis/tang aircraft pivot joints. I turned the stainless pins and bronze bushings on my lathe, and I machined the hinges from 1” thick aluminum plate. It took me some time to machine all of the hinge parts, but they turned out well and they only weigh 0.44 lb each.

I decided to use gas struts for the roof lift, and I made a spreadsheet to calculate the optimal strut size, strut force rating, and mount positions using trigonometry. In addition to roof weight, I also considered wind aerodynamic loading, and the ergonomics of opening and closing the roof. I know the spreadsheet probably seems like overkill, but it really helped me dial in the strut mounting locations, if the struts were slanted forward or back, and pick the right gas struts. The roof has 32.5 inches of lift at the back, and that gives 7'3" of ceiling height. The load to pull the roof closed feels appropriate.

It’s now time for the pop top cloth. What cloth is on your camper and do you like it? Should our cloth be translucent or block light? What do you think about zipper vs Velcro windows?

P.s. As you can see, Dan Grec's jeep is here visiting while Dan is getting ready for his next round of upgrades.

 

[86scotty]

Nice, looks like Dan is going this route too.

 

[Mules]

Engineering principle #1, Keep It Simple (KIS).

Love your drafting and machining skills! You should frame your drawing of the hinge. It's beautiful and so are the hinges.

For tent material, I went with Marine Grade Canvas from Sailrite.com. They have everything you need including clear window material. They also have a ton of videos on how to sew zippers, velcro, windows, etc. I would make the outer material Marine Canvas with sewn in screens, and make roll up window, and window covering on the inside. If you're planning hard core winter camping, add a velcro insulated liner for the inside.

I would definitely sew in windows on the sides and back. I'm looking out my windows when I'm sitting, standing, and when I sleep up top. I wish I had a third window on back, just remember you'll need to cover them unless you want your neighbors watching you sleep at night.

Tip: My home sewing machine barely could handle sewing multiple layers for the windows. If you do Screen, window, and covering, you will need an industrial sewing machine. My tent sewing is detailed in my build forum.

Marine & Boat Upholstery Canvas

Shop the largest collection of marine upholstery fabric for your boat’s interior & exterior. Durable canvas for sailboats, pontoons, power boats, and more.

www.sailrite.com

 

[zimm]

I may have missed it, but since you removed the jeep integral cage, did you do anything to stiffen the chassis for torsional flex or was that unnecessary?

 

[Mules]

Here's a picture of the window I would make, if I had an industrial sewing machine.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Engineering principle #1, Keep It Simple (KIS).

Love your drafting and machining skills! You should frame your drawing of the hinge. It's beautiful and so are the hinges.

For tent material, I went with Marine Grade Canvas from Sailrite.com. They have everything you need including clear window material. They also have a ton of videos on how to sew zippers, velcro, windows, etc. I would make the outer material Marine Canvas with sewn in screens, and make roll up window, and window covering on the inside. If you're planning hard core winter camping, add a velcro insulated liner for the inside.

I would definitely sew in windows on the sides and back. I'm looking out my windows when I'm sitting, standing, and when I sleep up top. I wish I had a third window on back, just remember you'll need to cover them unless you want your neighbors watching you sleep at night.

Tip: My home sewing machine barely could handle sewing multiple layers for the windows. If you do Screen, window, and covering, you will need an industrial sewing machine. My tent sewing is detailed in my build forum.

Marine & Boat Upholstery Canvas

Shop the largest collection of marine upholstery fabric for your boat’s interior & exterior. Durable canvas for sailboats, pontoons, power boats, and more.

www.sailrite.com

View attachment 823743


View attachment 823744


View attachment 823745


View attachment 823746

@Mules, You are spot on about Sailrite; they have some great products for these tops. About a year and a half ago I picked up one of their Ultrafeed LSZ-1 heavy-duty zig-zag machines for a great deal. I’ve tested it out a few times, and I’m pretty blown away by how thick of material it can sew. It just chomps through everything my wife and I have run through it. I think it will be great for sewing Velcro to thick layered cloth for the pop-top.

Mind if I ask what specific type of marine grade canvas that you got from Sailrite? I got a little sample “book” of cloth swatches from Sailrite, and I’ve been comparing their marine grade Sunbrella options and another cloth called Top Notch 9 (there is also a Top Notch 11.5 and 5 that are alternate thicknesses). Honestly, I kind of like the feel and specs of the Top Notch 9 over the Sunbrella, and the Top Notch 9 is a bit less expensive.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

Here's a picture of the window I would make, if I had an industrial sewing machine.

View attachment 823819

@Mules, I really like that window setup. It looks really simple and functional, and that’s what I’m looking for. I could make a rectangular window just like that in the back, and a similar (but triangular) window on each side.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

I may have missed it, but since you removed the jeep integral cage, did you do anything to stiffen the chassis for torsional flex or was that unnecessary?

Good question @zimm.. I did not modify the frame at all, but to help emulate the stiffness of the cut rear body, I made a TIG welded steel skeleton frame integrated into both camper boxes that connect into the roll bar behind the B-pillar and connect into the frame mounts under the back floor of the habitats. The habitat boxes are actually pretty stiff with the composite panels having a lot of carbon fiber running at a 45-degree angle in the walls, so they act as reasonably good shear webs. After I cut the first body (but before I mounted the first habitat), I shot a laser diagonally across the frame, and then jacked up one rear wheel/tire about a foot off the ground; I was surprised how little twist there was in the overall jeep with the back body cut away. I’ll probably never know how the habitat stiffness compares to the stock rear body, and now the two campers are quite different weights, weight distributions, and internal configurations, so they have different structural conditions. The jeeps together have about 6,500 miles on them with the campers installed, and they seem to be doing well so far. We will all just have to see how it works out long term. Keep your fingers crossed!

 

[Mules]

@Mules, You are spot on about Sailrite; they have some great products for these tops. About a year and a half ago I picked up one of their Ultrafeed LSZ-1 heavy-duty zig-zag machines for a great deal. I’ve tested it out a few times, and I’m pretty blown away by how thick of material it can sew. It just chomps through everything my wife and I have run through it. I think it will be great for sewing Velcro to thick layered cloth for the pop-top.

Mind if I ask what specific type of marine grade canvas that you got from Sailrite? I got a little sample “book” of cloth swatches from Sailrite, and I’ve been comparing their marine grade Sunbrella options and another cloth called Top Notch 9.0 (there is also a Top Notch 11.5 and 5.0 that are alternate thicknesses). Honestly, I kind of like the feel and specs of the Top Notch 9.0 over the Sunbrella, and the Top Notch 9.0 is a bit less expensive.

View attachment 824026
View attachment 824027

Here you go. Looks like great minds think alike (Top Notch #9) Below is my order for Canvas, windows and supplies. Let us know what material, if any you add for insulation. The insulation will be nice in the cold, but might make it more difficult to store away when the top is folded. My window material is pretty thick. You could lighten us a gage if you wanted.

Awesome sewing machine @LostInTheWorld!


binding, basting, string, and velcro.

 

[Mules]

Here is a link to my 100 page Gladiator Forum. On page 32, I have a lot of pictures on sewing the tent.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/gladiator-expedition-rigs.44600/page-32

 

[LostInTheWorld]

That is super helpful info! Thank you very much @Mules. It looks like I’m heading in the same direction that you went. I was also leaning toward getting Tex 70 thread (instead of Tex 90), so it’s good to see that you used that thread gauge.

I’m in the process of making a bed/dinette setup for Yvonne and I, so we will always sleep “downstairs” in our camper (Dan is building a totally different setup in his habitat and he plans sleep up top all the time). One of the main reasons that Yvonne and I like our bed/dinette layout is that it allows us to sleep with the top down if it is cold, if the weather is bad, or if we just feel more secure in a sketchy camp situation for whatever reason. Yvonne and I have spent 11 nights in our camper so far with the top down (because I didn't have the pop-top finished yet), and it has felt very secure, comfortable, and cozy sleeping with the top down. So, I think I will just go with normal cloth and not insulate the cloth. Not insulating the top also just simplifies everything, and, like you noted, not insulating makes the cloth store away better when the top is folded down. We have a 2kW diesel heater and a small 350W electric heater, so with the top up during the day, we should be comfortable, and we can put the top down at night if we want/need. I also made the camper wall height such that we can sit comfortably inside with the top down, so I think there are a lot of options to stay warm and cozy even without insulating the cloth. And, I can always add insulation to the cloth later if we decide that we want it.

I built in aluminum angles for the cloth to attach to the lower surface of my roof and the top of the habitat walls, so I think I have several options of how to mount the cloth to those angles. I was thinking that I might try mounting the cloth with Velcro by putting self-adhesive “hook” on the angle and “loop” sewn onto the cloth. The Velcro would be on the outward facing surface of the lower aluminum angle, so the cloth would “shingle” and help keep water on the outside. If that attachment combination doesn’t end up strong enough, I could add fasteners as a backup and leave the Velcro as a weather seal of sorts. The Velcro that I have is rated from -20°F to 200°F, but I still wonder if it is up to the task. Thoughts?

@Mules, I went back through your build post (and the new link that you just posted), and I somehow missed before how your cloth attaches to your roof and walls. It looks like you used just Velcro to mount your cloth? If so, it looks like you did something similar to what I’m considering with Velcro. Any lessons learned from the way that you attached your cloth?

Here is the cloth mounting angle that I have bonded all the way around the top of my walls:

 

[Mules]

That is super helpful info! Thank you very much @Mules. It looks like I’m heading in the same direction that you went. I was also leaning toward getting Tex 70 thread (instead of Tex 90), so it’s good to see that you used that thread gauge.

I’m in the process of making a bed/dinette setup for Yvonne and I, so we will always sleep “downstairs” in our camper (Dan is building a totally different setup in his habitat and he plans sleep up top all the time). One of the main reasons that Yvonne and I like our bed/dinette layout is that it allows us to sleep with the top down if it is cold, if the weather is bad, or if we just feel more secure in a sketchy camp situation for whatever reason. Yvonne and I have spent 11 nights in our camper so far with the top down (because I didn't have the pop-top finished yet), and it has felt very secure, comfortable, and cozy sleeping with the top down. So, I think I will just go with normal cloth and not insulate the cloth. Not insulating the top also just simplifies everything, and, like you noted, not insulating makes the cloth store away better when the top is folded down. We have a 2kW diesel heater and a small 350W electric heater, so with the top up during the day, we should be comfortable, and we can put the top down at night if we want/need. I also made the camper wall height such that we can sit comfortably inside with the top down, so I think there are a lot of options to stay warm and cozy even without insulating the cloth. And, I can always add insulation to the cloth later if we decide that we want it.

I built in aluminum angles for the cloth to attach to the lower surface of my roof and the top of the habitat walls, so I think I have several options of how to mount the cloth to those angles. I was thinking that I might try mounting the cloth with Velcro by putting self-adhesive “hook” on the angle and “loop” sewn onto the cloth. The Velcro would be on the outward facing surface of the lower aluminum angle, so the cloth would “shingle” and help keep water on the outside. If that attachment combination doesn’t end up strong enough, I could add fasteners as a backup and leave the Velcro as a weather seal of sorts. The Velcro that I have is rated from -20°F to 200°F, but I still wonder if it is up to the task. Thoughts?

@Mules, I went back through your build post (and the new link that you just posted), and I somehow missed before how your cloth attaches to your roof and walls. It looks like you used just Velcro to mount your cloth? If so, it looks like you did something similar to what I’m considering with Velcro. Any lessons learned from the way that you attached your cloth?

Here is the cloth mounting angle that I have bonded all the way around the top of my walls:

View attachment 824130

I think both Dan and your rigs will be great. I mostly sleep upstairs, but can also sleep below, when I pull in to camp late and don't want to pop it up. I haven't stealth camped at Walmart or Lowes yet, but not having to pop up the camper does come in handy occasionally.

Here's how I attached to the camper:
I sewed velcro to the tent material top and bottom. Then I put stick on velcro on my camper wood rails with wood staples every 6 inches. Your aluminum might be smooth enough just to use the stick on velcro. I would just add aluminum rivets every 6 inches for added strength. It will work great, and easy to remove when needed.

 

[Accrete]

A little update on things:

We just got back from a nice camping test trip in the jeep camper...We liked the Mattress Insider Gel Foam Mattress + Froli Stars combination that we used in our Unimog habitat, but that combination doesn’t really work with this convertible bed/dinette. We might just need a totally different mattress, but first, I think I’ll try an under-mattress cushion under Hest mattress.

My wife & I have followed your project for Dan, beautiful workmanship and creativity >> KUDOS!!

We have used the Froli in both our van conversions and topped it with a custom size/cut natural latex mattress from https://sleeponlatex.com/ (no affiliation, just happy repeat customers; both vans and also our primary bed in our sticks/bricks home. They will make a mattress in any size/thickness you wish).

Our favorite combo with the Froli is the 3" thick mattress. In fact after arriving back home waaaay back in 2011 after the maiden voyage in our Chevy van my wife asked me the morning after sleeping in our home's Sealy Posture Pedic if i could order a Froli & Latex to swap out

OH, and IF you ever decide to offer your designs to the general public, my wife and i would like to be on that short list!! >> and as an FYI, your idea of "sleeping downstairs" is how we would go also. Versatile in our preferred, often windy, southwest desert (we live in Nevada just east of Death Valley)

Happy Trails,
Thom