johnsoax
Adventurer
Posted this at LandRoversonly forums too.
I've got a head scratcher..
Two years ago, I had an issue with my thermostat housing cracking internally. About 4-5 months after I replaced that, I would get random "Reduced Engine Performance" messages on the screen, usually when going down a big hill on the highway, and it would clear before I got off the highway. Code reader (IIDTool) would see nothing. It would come and go, and eventually, I moved and stopped driving so many highway miles and it didn't really come back.
Fast forward to this January, I was driving home from work when the check engine light came on. Using my tool, I saw that it was a P0171-00 "System too lean (bank 1)". I opened the hood and looked around, but didn't see anything amiss, reset the code and went in and researched (I sometimes get random suspension codes too, so didn't know if this was real or not, as I have been fighting water infiltration on the passenger side for a while).
The next morning, a Friday, as I was dropping my kids off at school, the truck stalled in the drop off line. I turned the key back to start, without turning it to off, and it restarted right away, but idle was rough, and stalled two more times. The last time was as I was dropping the kids off. I put the truck in park, turned the key all the way off, removed it, waited 10 seconds, and then started it back up. Idle was a little rough, but lined out, and I drove to work with no problems (10 miles). Saw I had the same code again, reset it, and went to work. Drove home ok. Disconnected some hoses and found oil coming out of the PCV valve. I had never changed it, so ordered one from RockAuto. Checked all the vacuum connections, checked the air box connections, reseated everything, and let it sit all weekend. Didn't have any issues Monday, or Tuesday besides a slightly rough idle. PCV valve came on Tuesday, replaced that, cleared code. Wednesday morning rough idle was gone, but the code came back on my drive home from work. When I changed the thermostat housing, I had taken apart the throttle body, but didn't change the gaskets. So I ordered a few gaskets from roverparts, thinking one of them was bad, and it had let go. Truck continued to drive ok, with code popping back up on the 2nd drive every time I cleared it. I could also tell I was missing some power in the 1-2000 rpm range.
Few days go by, gaskets came, took the intake apart, everything was full of oil from the throttle body back... Cleaned out the throttle body, and the intake cast piece. Put everything back together. Truck is running really smooth, but is definitely still running lean, as you can smell it after you park in the garage at the end of the day. Still seems to be missing power in the midband.
I've captured some data a few times with the IIDTool, but only exported it as CSV, and couldn't get times to line up in excel, so deleted it.....
Two nights ago, I decided to make sure the exhaust manifolds were tight, as that could cause a lean code too. The heat shields are... fun... to take off. Everything looked good there. The connections between the manifolds and the cats look good too.
Someone on Instagram mentioned that he would change the ERG valve when they got a lean code (he is a LR mechanic, supposely)... The ERG comes off of Bank 2 and goes into the intake, so wouldn't that show Bank 2 lean? So I also took the ERG valve loose from the intake and exhaust lines, but not the coolant lines and flipped it over and moved the plunger around to make sure it wasn't stuck open or closed, or had any large amount of build up that would mess up its travel. It sprung back to the closed position every time, wiped some carbon off. After taking an hour to get the dumb bolt back into the ERG valve (front bolt in the front of the exhaust connection, need to be a contortionist or something), and dropping the exhaust gasket down into the armor on the bottom, I got it all back together, cleared the code, and started the truck up. Seemed to run fine, so shut it down and went to bed.
Yesterday morning, drove like a dream, the truck seemed to have power everywhere again, and I was thinking that I might order a new ERG valve, but held off to see when the code came back. Code came back on the way home from work. Same symptoms are all back, smooth idle, less power between 1000-2000 rpms, very sweet "lean" smell when parking..
When I got to work, I captured some data, and finally figured out how to export the graphs as a PDF. I converted to a JPG to post here, but the truck is at temp, and I was just reving the idle up slowly. Bottom two are short term fuel trim, next up are long term fuel trims, then EGR stepper position (It didn't open at all?) and 2nd down graph is RPMs. The top graph is everything overlaid on top of each other.
Also attached some pictures of when I had the throttle body and intake casting out...
So that's where I am at the moment. Anyone have any ideas? Should I replace the ERG? I hate to just throw money and parts at it, but I am at my end when it comes to diagnosing what is going on...
I've got a head scratcher..
Two years ago, I had an issue with my thermostat housing cracking internally. About 4-5 months after I replaced that, I would get random "Reduced Engine Performance" messages on the screen, usually when going down a big hill on the highway, and it would clear before I got off the highway. Code reader (IIDTool) would see nothing. It would come and go, and eventually, I moved and stopped driving so many highway miles and it didn't really come back.
Fast forward to this January, I was driving home from work when the check engine light came on. Using my tool, I saw that it was a P0171-00 "System too lean (bank 1)". I opened the hood and looked around, but didn't see anything amiss, reset the code and went in and researched (I sometimes get random suspension codes too, so didn't know if this was real or not, as I have been fighting water infiltration on the passenger side for a while).
The next morning, a Friday, as I was dropping my kids off at school, the truck stalled in the drop off line. I turned the key back to start, without turning it to off, and it restarted right away, but idle was rough, and stalled two more times. The last time was as I was dropping the kids off. I put the truck in park, turned the key all the way off, removed it, waited 10 seconds, and then started it back up. Idle was a little rough, but lined out, and I drove to work with no problems (10 miles). Saw I had the same code again, reset it, and went to work. Drove home ok. Disconnected some hoses and found oil coming out of the PCV valve. I had never changed it, so ordered one from RockAuto. Checked all the vacuum connections, checked the air box connections, reseated everything, and let it sit all weekend. Didn't have any issues Monday, or Tuesday besides a slightly rough idle. PCV valve came on Tuesday, replaced that, cleared code. Wednesday morning rough idle was gone, but the code came back on my drive home from work. When I changed the thermostat housing, I had taken apart the throttle body, but didn't change the gaskets. So I ordered a few gaskets from roverparts, thinking one of them was bad, and it had let go. Truck continued to drive ok, with code popping back up on the 2nd drive every time I cleared it. I could also tell I was missing some power in the 1-2000 rpm range.
Few days go by, gaskets came, took the intake apart, everything was full of oil from the throttle body back... Cleaned out the throttle body, and the intake cast piece. Put everything back together. Truck is running really smooth, but is definitely still running lean, as you can smell it after you park in the garage at the end of the day. Still seems to be missing power in the midband.
I've captured some data a few times with the IIDTool, but only exported it as CSV, and couldn't get times to line up in excel, so deleted it.....
Two nights ago, I decided to make sure the exhaust manifolds were tight, as that could cause a lean code too. The heat shields are... fun... to take off. Everything looked good there. The connections between the manifolds and the cats look good too.
Someone on Instagram mentioned that he would change the ERG valve when they got a lean code (he is a LR mechanic, supposely)... The ERG comes off of Bank 2 and goes into the intake, so wouldn't that show Bank 2 lean? So I also took the ERG valve loose from the intake and exhaust lines, but not the coolant lines and flipped it over and moved the plunger around to make sure it wasn't stuck open or closed, or had any large amount of build up that would mess up its travel. It sprung back to the closed position every time, wiped some carbon off. After taking an hour to get the dumb bolt back into the ERG valve (front bolt in the front of the exhaust connection, need to be a contortionist or something), and dropping the exhaust gasket down into the armor on the bottom, I got it all back together, cleared the code, and started the truck up. Seemed to run fine, so shut it down and went to bed.
Yesterday morning, drove like a dream, the truck seemed to have power everywhere again, and I was thinking that I might order a new ERG valve, but held off to see when the code came back. Code came back on the way home from work. Same symptoms are all back, smooth idle, less power between 1000-2000 rpms, very sweet "lean" smell when parking..
When I got to work, I captured some data, and finally figured out how to export the graphs as a PDF. I converted to a JPG to post here, but the truck is at temp, and I was just reving the idle up slowly. Bottom two are short term fuel trim, next up are long term fuel trims, then EGR stepper position (It didn't open at all?) and 2nd down graph is RPMs. The top graph is everything overlaid on top of each other.
Also attached some pictures of when I had the throttle body and intake casting out...
So that's where I am at the moment. Anyone have any ideas? Should I replace the ERG? I hate to just throw money and parts at it, but I am at my end when it comes to diagnosing what is going on...
