Land Cruiser axles, engine etc... Will it blend?

[Ndmker]

My questions are probably very naive, but I am just a beginner

So I've been driving 4x4 vehicles for a decade and currently I own an 80-series land cruiser. Last year I also bought a van and converted it into a camper myself. I bought what's most popular in Europe and was relatively wide: a Fiat Ducato. After just one trip I know that the vehicle is a piece of junk. The engine sucks, the tranny sucks, even the doors need a good slam to close. The van is from 2004 and very well cared of, so the problem is the engineering and not user neglect.

So my plan is to stick with Japanese vehicles as I always do. My plan is to buy a Canter, the small version, which weighs around 2500kg. I will, once again, build a camper from scratch, which is no problem, but the problem is vehicle availability, and thats the main question of my post. In Europe there are only rear wheel drive vehicles and only manual tranny. I will use the truck for mild camping and not hardcore expedition so an auto tranny would be great, a d I would also like to have full time 4x4.

My first option is to look for an auto tranny (probably JDM) and a front axle. I assume that this will be quite expensive.

My second option is to buy a slightly wrecked Land Cruiser FZJ80 for around $2000 and use the following components: engine 4.5L inline six, 373Nm, auto tranny, transfer case, front and rear axles. The weight of an armed (winch bumpers etc.) Land Cruiser is around 2700kg and the weight of a canter camper will be probably around 3300kg so I assume not a big difference in performance. I could sell the rest of the LC parts to friends so probably I will get some of my investment back.

Is it a good idea? Or are the engine and axles too weak?

 

[engineer]

Engine is good, the 4.5 litre six is known to go forever.
Why 80 series axles? The front diff is one of the weakest i know of.....

 

[Ndmker]

My line of reasoning is that I want to keep things simple and almost 'bolt on'. I get an engine which works well together with the tranny, then goes the t-case and axles with matching gear ratio. The weight of both vehicles is similar and I assume that the size of stock Canter wheels might be similar to 31" or 32". I currently have my LC80 on 285/75/16 tires (around 33") and it accelerates like mad, so fitting the Canter with pizza cutters of similar overall diameter will give me similar power with better mileage.

But when I start messing with axles, I will go into the expensive (especially labor) field of cusom ring/pinion sets in order to make things work fine. The stock LC diff ratio is 4.1. If I go with Nissan Patrol axles the truck will be even slower as the ratio is probably higher than 4.1. I won't need that because I am planning to keep the t-case for crawling. So fitting diferent axles will increase costs and also complicate the technical side. I assume that if the camper will have a slightly higher weight and slightly smaller tires, then I will keep the same stress on the components as in the stock LC80. And I simply trust the FZJ80 because I have one, I know the engine almost inside out, have been inside a differential, have replaced all the bearings in the t-case and done other kind of stuff. I really have more trust in petrol engines than diesels. Many things can be out of spec on a petrol engine and it will start and still drive. On a diesel you need and exact fuel pressure, exact and high compression and when it doesn't start there's a lot of guessing.

Mating a LC auto tranny and t-case to an existing Canter engine seems useless. Too many problems with gear ratios, engine power vs torque converter mismatch etc...

But you don't have to agree with me. The more criticism I receive, the more intensely will I think about the problem. I just need a camper with proven Japanese technology, not some European junk.

 

[engineer]

Not criticising, just asking mate?
We have played with things alot different than the cruisers, and I have been out of conversion work for a while.
So my knowledge may not be really relevant for what you are trying to achieve.
I would suggest that if you feel comfortable with the LC gear, stay with it. They are strong engines, we did have alot of issues with the constant 4x4 hire cars on Fraser Island (front diffs) but that was mainly an issue with people who didn't own the car, they are great with discs all round (never liked the internal h/brake drum idea....) and great reliability.
I have borrowed an LC 100 with the 4.5 lt. petrol for the weekend, and boy they can drink. 20L/100klm!!! unladen...
Sounds awesome, and i wish you well!!
Chock

 

[Ndmker]

I meant criticism in a positive way, constructive criticism, which is good.

I am simply thinking of doing as little modding as necessary. My other option was Nissan, which has an opinion of having stronger discs, but then the engines available in Europe are weaker in power. Which would mean fiddling with an engine/trans adapter and hoping the powerbands and ratios will match. There doesn't seem to be a lot of other options when it comes to a good engine/trans/tcase/axle combo.

As far as fuel consumption is concerned the 4.5L does drink 20 liters in city driving but while on an open road, the consumption goes down to 13-15 depending on speed (80-100kmh). This is still good for a 2.5T vehicle with aerodynamics of a brick.

 

[syche]

Hi All

I have also been around the same ideas as a European, but in the end you will face a lot of problems. Where are you in Europe?

There are a few alternative solution you can look into that will cost much less and would be much simpler to get on the road in the end.

A ford E350, there are a few available in EU right now, convert it 4wd with a kit from UJoin..... which is on this forum and you are set with something that fits very well together for a very reasonable budget.

You can also keep the 80 or a 100 and get it a pop up roof, or even go for custom cab in the rear with the Germans in aluminum, or French with Fiber. There is also an other company making very nice poly cabs and can fit them on any base. Geocab: http://www.geocar.com/_lccms_/_00021/HOME.htm?VER=110823120314&LANG=ger&MID=20 They have very beautiful cabs and i would love a low profile pop up one on a hilux or toyota grj79.

In europe there is a company in spain converting light trucks into 4wd just look for renault mascott 4x4 or something in google you will find them. I am not very impressed by the front axle they are using thought, some light carraro (maybe upgradale as carraro also got some very nice axles in their books..

Else there is Iveco with their very nice but pricy dailly 4x4, the late version are really nice base trucks but more offroad oriented.

VW transporter is not to be left on the side if you don't plan extreme offroad, this van even 2wd is very capable and strong, 4wd with a few mods can be a great base too. Seikel is the expert, not cheap but you get the top end products. I used drive a T5 for work and i wasn't sparing it on construction site, never left me down:Wow1:.
Some company offer sets to reconfigure the haldex diff to have a 50/50 split ratio, that is a good go for who is planning offroad with it.

It is all a matter of budget and how hard you are planning to wheel or how big you want but we also have many options available in europe.

Thas said i do like very much isuzu and mitsu mini trucks, but they are just not that interesting for europe when you consider all the work to be done when starting on a 2wd one.:ylsmoke:

Consider that in Eu the limit is 3.5T for the normal car registration, over that you will be truck or camper depending on countries and issuing date of your driving license. So starting with a light truck that is 2.5T 2wd and chassis cab, you will be very very quickly over that limit and will have issues with the blue on the road.
Front axle with all supports and everything would be close to 350KG+ transfer case and everything....

 

[Ndmker]

Many thanks for your reply. I've already considered similar options to the ones you mentioned. I'm afraid I haven't described my needs in a precise way, so here it goes:

For serious off-road and traveling alone the FZJ80 is more than enough: dependable and spacious enough. I already have it. But I need to travel to distant places with my family. No serious off-road, maybe apart from highways I will need the vehicle for some gravel roads, climbing a few mountains, crossing some very small creeks etc. No mudding, no winching, no flooding the vehicle up to the door handles. I need a vehicle which will give enough room for me, my wife, two kids and two dogs. This year I bought an empty van like this:



And converted it all by myself into a full-time camper, like this:


The camper has toilet, kitchen, fridge, seitz windows and other camper stuff. Sorry for the mess in the photo but my son was learning to walk and he would pull out all he could reach. Almost 90% of camper vehicles are based on the Ducato platform but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. I don't like the common-rail engine as it seems too funky and complicated. It also seems underpowered at 2.8l. The gearbox needs a Hulk hand to operate and in general I don't trust the vehicle. It seems to be mechanically primitive.

Next I would like to reply to your suggestions...

The Ford E350 is out of the question. It's just a powerful van, but still a van.
The other vehicles you mentioned are good for a solo adventure or maybe two-people trip but not for a family. My plan is to buy a 'naked' Canter, just the cabin on a frame and build the rest from scratch: with my preferred dimensions, with straight walls, with doors and windows where I want them. I also need an engine which can withstand any quality of fuel and be simple. All the vehicles you mentioned have the engine mounted sideways which is a horror when one needs to repair something.

I am a bit worried about fuel consumption but I need an engine which won't suffer under 3 tons of load, be simple cheap and dependable. I still haven't found anything apart from the 1FZ-FE (4.5l I6). This is why I am here sourcing for ideas, inspiration or maybe suggestions to choose another path.

 

[SkiFreak]

I don't like the common-rail engine as it seems too funky and complicated.

You do realise that just about every late model diesel engine, including the Canter's, uses common rail technology.
I do agree however that these newer engines are nowhere near as easy to fault find, should something go wrong. As I see it, you can choose between these newer engines that generally have better power and fuel economy or go with an older engine that is simpler to understand. Unfortunately it's a one or the other deal; you cannot have it both ways.

 

[Ndmker]

Yes, I am well aware of this and that's why I prefer to make an engine swap. I even prefer petrol engines. They have poorer fuel economy but are more forgiving.

 

[SkiFreak]

Are looking at getting a 4x4 or a 4x2 Canter?
If you do get a Canter, do you still plan on changing out the OEM engine for a non common rail one?

The Canter's engine is known to be very reliable, so I don't know if that would be really worth the effort. And then there's the cost and the associated hassles associated with any engine swap...

 

[Amesz00]

I even prefer petrol engines. They have poorer fuel economy but are more forgiving.

cant quite agree with you here bro.. if your comparing apples to apples, ie equivelant era and technology. how about a 1HZ or 1HD-T (in keeping with the toyota preferred theme), these are equivelant motors to a 1FZ-FE, and to me i cant see how any less reliable (from my exp with the 1fz hasnt been great), you can feed them low quality fuel as arent commonrail (esp with extra aftermarket fuel filters), very torquey and use next to no fuel.
but of course its your truck
Andrew

 

[whatcharterboat]

I even prefer petrol engines. They have poorer fuel economy but are more forgiving.

Can't see it either. As long as an old diesel has clean air and clean fuel, in other words filters are changed regularly or even at increased regularity depending on the conditions, and change your oil then nothing will normally go wrong........ever. If you somehow could get a petrol engine to run without an electrical / ignition system then it would be as "forgiving" as a diesel but that's not going to happen is it? IMO.

 

[PKDreamers]

The 1HZ is a great engine ours had 400000km on it when we sold it and is still going strong. Just like John said service it well and it will last for years and years.
Very easy to work on , parts a easy to get, they don't have too many problems only front pulley bolt can come loose.
Even the older 2H was a old good engine.
My 2c

 

[Ndmker]

Are looking at getting a 4x4 or a 4x2 Canter?
If you do get a Canter, do you still plan on changing out the OEM engine for a non common rail one?

The Canter's engine is known to be very reliable, so I don't know if that would be really worth the effort. And then there's the cost and the associated hassles associated with any engine swap...

In Europe I can only find 4x2 Canters with 2.8 or 3.3 engines (around 100-120hp), with manual transmission. This is exactly the opposite of what I want. Reliability of engine is not a problem, lack of power is. I am not stubborn about the Canter as a model but it is so popular that I will be able to repair it in Bosnia, Albania or Romania. There are other similar vehicles like Hyundai H100, KIa 2500/2700, Nissan Cabstar/Atlas or Toyota Dyna. They are either too expensive or not enough popular to give me peace of mind. I will look, however, carefully at the Korean vehicles to find out how many Canter parts they have as they are built on a Mitsubushi license and are over 30% cheaper.

cant quite agree with you here bro.. if your comparing apples to apples, ie equivelant era and technology. how about a 1HZ or 1HD-T (in keeping with the toyota preferred theme), these are equivelant motors to a 1FZ-FE, and to me i cant see how any less reliable (from my exp with the 1fz hasnt been great), you can feed them low quality fuel as arent commonrail (esp with extra aftermarket fuel filters), very torquey and use next to no fuel.
but of course its your truck
Andrew

I really like those engines but they are generally in poor condition when sold. I can easily find an 1FZ-FE for $500 but a 1HD-FT will cost me $2000 and will probably have years of abuse and over half a million kilometers on the clock. My local Land cruiser experience is that the diesel engines are problematic due previous owner abuse. I have three or 4 friends with petrol engines (1FZ-FE) and we have no problems, whereas the diesel crowd constantly struggles with some weird engine behavior. So, out of the factory, both engines are terrific, but in real life, after sixteen years, the diesels are pretty much beaten up and overpriced. Diesel fuel is getting even more expensive than petrol so I'm leaning more towards the 1FZ-FE.

 

[SkiFreak]

In Europe I can only find 4x2 Canters with 2.8 or 3.3 engines (around 100-120hp), with manual transmission. This is exactly the opposite of what I want. Reliability of engine is not a problem, lack of power is.

If you do decide to go down the Canter route, and are willing to spend a bit more on improving the engine, then an aftermarket turbo may be the solution to your power concerns.
I am told that a good exhaust system and a turbo on these engines makes a noticeable improvement with driveability.