Land Rover Buying Advice Wanted

mmbirtcher

Observer
I'll be buying a "new to me" vehicle in the upcoming months and I need some advice regarding which one to buy. I'm considering either a 2003-2004 D2, or one of the LR3 models. I used to own a 2004 D2 that I loved, but sold after it overheated (electric fan failed) and I rebuilt the top end of the engine. Besides that no real issues (bought at 30k sold at 100).

Things I have learned so far (feel free to beat me down if wrong)- stay away from 2005 and 2009, and the later years worked out some of the bugs. Don't get a V6. Look for the HD model (but maybe an ARB locker install would be better?). Don't take any without full documented maintenance.

How much of the work can I do myself on them? My skill level is up to about to where I can swap out CV axles and have a lift available.

Thanks!
 

LR Max

Local Oaf
I have no idea who told you to stay away from 2005-2009. The 2005-2009 trucks are straight up baller. An LR3 is much better than a D2 in all ways (assuming you aren't going above a 33" tire).

A 07-09 are more desirable LR3s and yes the HD is awesome. Rare but awesome. V8 seems to be better. V6 seems to be ok but I see people towing their trail trucks (built D2s) with a V8. Obviously this is baller.

Yes. Get a vehicle with a history...but that applies to just about any vehicle.

So far, doesn't seem like too difficult to work on from what I've heard. Not an erector set but reasonable if you have the correct tools.

The LR4 has a better interior and more engine. That is really the only difference. If you can swing a LR4, do it.
 

mmbirtcher

Observer
Thanks for the advice, great to hear high praise for the LR3, since I read about a few problems they've had. I should also mention that it will be a DD and while my off-road trips are not frequent they include places like Mosquito Pass, and some rugged off road spots in Arkansas too. And hoping for some further North American overlanding in the future... I think I'd do the 2" lift rod system.

I did just read that replacing the control arms that the body has to be lifted from the subframe(???). No way, right? (JE Robison Service)

I saw threads that suggested the 2008 may be the best of the LR3 models.
 

DiscoDavis

Explorer
Yeah the full range of 05-09 Disco 3's are great. Wonderful trucks. They LOVE preventative maintenance but the most common NAS engine (the 4.4) is a workhorse, IMO its a world apart from the (to me at least) ticking time bomb 4.0V8 and 4.6's the D2's have. The 4.0 (V6) was from Ford AFAIK, and by all accounts is pretty good. Of course the later trucks in the D3 line worked more bugs out, but most of the earlier years got sorted out under warranty anyway. EDIT: If I had to pick the best model year to look for, I'd now say 07-08.

Full history is KING, anything but... and you should either walk right there or lowball like crazy.
Halogens were available but the Xenons are excellent for headlights.
Right about HD packages. Nice but now we have airlockers... :sombrero:


With your wrenching skills you should be able to do pretty much anything with these. Easy to fix once you get the hang of things and a few choice tools. Guys in the UK are even servicing their own differentials these days...

D2's are really cool for the body style, bit more overhang than a D1, but nice. Great interiors. IF you go for one, get it cheap. Otherwise go for a D3. Filters, fluids would be good to change whatever you get.
 

A.J.M

Explorer
I have an 05, I don't get what the fuss is about them being flakey etc.
Mine is disappointingly reliable to the point of being boring. Haha.

For the Disco3 ( I'm giving it the correct name :p ) records and history are everything.
Get a car that's been looked after and it will serve you well.

They are big and heavy at 2.7 tons, so the bushes take a pounding from that weight.
Knocks from the front can be front lowers, arbs, drop links or a lower steering column.
From the rear, rear upper arms, arbs or drop links.

Maintaining it can be done in 2 ways, pick at issues as they come up. Or change everything and start with a blank slate and knowing what parts are on it. I went with option B and I managed a decent discount by buying the parts from my local dealer, I get 20%+ discount from them because of getting lots of bits there.
Remember, there are plenty of makers for parts, some are good, some are terrible.
Experience has taught me that it's worth spending a few bucks more to get the OEM part over a pattern one.

The Range Rover sport front lower arms and rear upper arms are a good upgrade, the bushes are better designed and the ball joint is larger 37>35mm.

Wheel bearings on the front can go about 100k, not a given but a known issue. Again due to weight.

Battery and alternator should be changed every 5-6 years. The 3 LOVES a good electrical supply and a failing batt or alternator can throw up all sorts of faults. When my battery needed changed, the car on start up would claim it was dying with various faults and programs unavailable. New battery stopped that.

Disco3.co.uk is a wonderful tool, it has a wiki for guides on maintainence so pretty much every job is covered there.
V8 engine knowledge may be lacking due to the fact it's mainly got uk members and we only got the v8 from 04-06 before it was dropped due to poor sales. Our sky high fuel prices killed off the sales of it.

You don't have to lift the body for changing arms. Whoever told you that needs a damn good shoeing, if it was a LR person who said that. Find someone who actually knows their ******** from their elbow on these cars.

I service mine every 10k, fresh correct spec oil and filters. The car is on 145k and runs happily so it's what I will keep doing.
The auto box needed oil changes every 50-75k, the words of ZF the box maker, not my own.

Sadly, this knowledge wasn't spoken until a few years ago, which is why lots of people are having torque converter and gearbox issues due to old oil. My own box needs an overhaul which will be getting done by the Scottish ZF agent so I know it wil be done properly.

I have an early 05 HSE model, ( mine was made in November 2004 ) it does everything I need of it. Luxury car, 7 seater, 5 seater and huge boot, boot is big enough for my Labrador, it's a superb tow car, it's great for my work and it's a comfy car to drive long distance.

I would recommend one, get a good one and you will have a fine car.
 

LR Max

Local Oaf
There are a few known issues. But that is with any vehicle. All of which you can do at your leisure or have done for a piece of mind.

To build on what was said earlier, apparently the diffs like to have their oil changed more often than recommended. Especially the rear diff.
 

Oblio

Observer
im going to look at a 06 LR3 6cyl with the Johnson rod 2in lift and a set of 33's. 167k miles for $7500 tomorrow.

anyone have any experience with the Johnson Rods? any advice?

00l0l_4oP8VhyslvV_600x450.jpg
 

m3 bavaria

Adventurer
My LR3 was the best vehicle All-around vehicle I've ever owned. During the 20k I drove her, we had zero issues though I did go through front pads at an alarming rate.

One thing I've learned though: pay a premium for more miles. You're not saving anything by buying a cheap, high mileage truck. You're just deferring more substantial costs.

I learned this the hard way with RRC's, Discos, and old Bimmers.
 

pathfinderheli

New member
I own 2 Disco 2's right now... They are great trucks. Fairly easy to work on and there is a ton of support out there on them. Most of the known issues can be fairly easily dealt with.
 

jymmiejamz

Adventurer
How much of the work can I do myself on them? My skill level is up to about to where I can swap out CV axles and have a lift available.

If you have access to a lift you can do the vast majority or repairs on an LR3. The most difficult thing about an LR3 would be diagnosing issues, but fortunately for you most problems are well documented. AFAIK, you get a 'day pass' for Topix to get any needed information from the workshop manual.

The year you buy doesn't matter. In my opinion maintenance doesn't matter as much as repair history. I would much rather have an LR3 owned by someone that only did oil changes and fixed anything that was broken, rather than owning one that just had every scheduled service done, but no repairs.
 

nwoods

Expedition Leader
I agree, the vast majority of maintenance items on an LR3 are basic mechanical stuff, without any special tools required. However, the computers and sensors are abit of an exception. Sensors are cheap and easy to replace, but you need a good OBDII reader to pull codes and find out what is actually going on. I HIGHLY recommend the Gap IIDT tool which gives you fairly deep access to the computer, with not just the ability to read and clear codes, but the option to change the settings in the car configuration files, including things like ride height.
 

Oblio

Observer
im going to look at a 06 LR3 6cyl with the Johnson rod 2in lift and a set of 33's. 167k miles for $7500 tomorrow.

anyone have any experience with the Johnson Rods? any advice?

00l0l_4oP8VhyslvV_600x450.jpg

Well I went to the bank got the funds then the guy just stopped responding to my texts and calls...then today I see he deleted the ad. Its a bummer he sold it but at least he could have the nads to answer my calls and let me know he sold it. I guess I will just keep looking.
 

GiorgioUSA

New member
I pulled this off a Facebook discovery 3 & 4 owners group. This group is mostly international so it is geared toward the diesel turbo lr3 motor. You can ignore anything to do with the turbo, FBH, MOT, intercooler, map sensor, etc etc

What to look for when buying a D3, and what are the common faults / things to consider. Here are the most common:

1) HSE is the 'top' model with most options fitted as standard.

2) Buy on condition rather than age or mileage.

3) Evidence of service history / money being spent is vital - these vehicles require preventative maintenance. A good 'tell tale' for a vehicle run on a shoestring budget is to look at the tyres. Are they a reputable make and good tread left? Good sign. Big stack of invoices? Good sign.

4) These are heavy vehicles - suspension components, bushes, and wheel bearings wear out, as do differentials and prop-shaft centre bearings.

5) Brakes take a hammering too. Check the disks and pads for excessive wear.

6) The EGR valves generally fail in time. They can be replaced, and there are other cheaper solutions available that cannot be officially sanctioned.

7) The suspension compressor is a weak point. Make sure the suspension raises and lowers efficiently, with no noises, and no error messages on the dashboard. Ideally, it will have been replaced by the uprated AMK version.

8) Battery and alternator usually need replacing at about 8 years old. A common sign that the battery is getting weak is the message "special programs not available" appearing temporarily after starting up.

9) Cambelt and fuel pump belt need changing at 7 years / 105K miles. The body does *not* need to come off to replace the belts.

10) Changing the oil pump at the same time as the belts is advisable. There have been instances of the lug that holds the tensioner snapping off and wrecking engines, and the redesigned pump appears to be much strengthened.

11) Getting the gearbox oil changed / flushed is advisable at around 80K miles.

12) Check the MOT history (online) on any vehicle you are thinking of buying - it will tell you a lot.

13) The electronic parking brake can fail, and it's expensive when it does. There is an emergency release accessible from inside the cabin.

14) A warranty is a good idea if you can stretch to it. Lots are available, and it's worth asking for experiences of members of this group.

15) an IID Tool is worth buying to do your own diagnostic work. Other tools can do similar jobs, including iCarsoft i930, but doesn't offer as many features.

16) A remote FBH controller is worth its weight in gold to those that have them. The FBH is a 'fuel burning heater' and kicks in below 5 Celsius to warm the engine faster on cold days. It is the thing that smells and smokes from the front left of the D3 and always worries people in the winter. A remote control turns it into a useful parking heater.

17) There was a recall on the detachable tow bar. Take it to Land Rover to get it checked out. There was also a recall regarding a vacuum pipe (top left of the engine standing at the front looking to the rear of the D3) - if you don't have a strange looking 'loop' arrangement, get it checked out by Land Rover.

18) The locking wheel bolts sometimes sheer off - replace them with standard ones. The supplied wheel brace is considered inadequate for removing the bolts if they have ever been tightened with an air wrench. Get a proper one prior to actually needing it!

19) Sometimes the central locking plays up, due to a crummy connection on the passenger side under the plastic sill. It can be soldered up for a permanent fix.

20) The cable that releases the rear tailgate sometimes breaks, as does the microswitch in the handle - awkward to repair when it goes. Symptoms are the tailgate not opening and / or a clicking noise but not opening.

21) Shudder or surging in the acceleration at about 2,000 rpm usually means the torque converter is failing - an oil flush or Dr Tranny can give it a bit more life.

22) There were some instances of crank bearings spinning and wrecking engines. If that happens to you, go talk to Land Rover, as they had a programme to deal with this, depending on conditions being met. As far as it known, there is no way to repair engines with spun crank bearings.

23) The turbo actuator can stick causing very poor acceleration at slow speeds. Easy enough to free up, if fiddly.

24) The MAP sensor has a tendency to clog up. Easy to remove and clean, and there is a modified part with a larger port available that is less prone to clogging.

25) The long intercooler pipe has a tendency to split near the top of the engine compartment on the left as you stand in front of the engine, causing almost total loss of performance, and loads of smoke. Easy DIY to replace, and should possibly be considered preventative maintenance once over about 7 or 8 years of age.

26) There are usually one or two D3's for sale by members of this group. They won't be the cheapest available, but they are likely to be amonst the most 'honest' with declared issues.

27) Road tax is cheaper on older D3's - that said, don't let this put you off newer models - the difference isn't large enough to use it as a buying decision.

28) Fuel economy is between 22 and 32 MPG depending on usage. These are not 'green' vehicles - and that's not why you're buying it!

29) Don't let just any old mechanic work on your D3. These are specialised machines and you need to know what you're doing if you want to minimise the costs - rather than just throwing parts at it. Take it to a recognised specialist and save yourself a lot of grief.

30) The centre console Fridge was thought to be standard on HSE's in 2007 but not necessarily present in 2008 onwards. They can be retrofitted :)

31) The crossover pipe that links one bank of cylinders to the turbo on the other side of the engine can fail - most usually due to the centre bracket not being refitted after work on the gearbox causing vibration and cracking. It can be replaced without taking the body off, but it is very awkward, and the pipe itself is expensive.

32) The fuel injectors can't be serviced, and they're roughly £200 each just for the part - keep in mind you have 6 of them! It's worth using good fuel and / or using injector cleaner every now and then to keep them in good shape.

33) The glow plugs can fail - symptom being difficult starting, smoke on starting, or rough running for a while after starting. You might not notice until 3 of the 6 have failed. They have a tendency to snap on removal, needing the heads to be taken off. A workaround is to fit a remote FBH controller and pre-heat the engine prior to starting.

34) The black plastic trim does fade. Several people swear by using smooth peanut butter to restore the colour.

35) The elements in the heated windscreen are fragile and can be broken by stone chips. There is no way to repair them once broken, other than a windscreen replacement.

36) The winch mechanism to lower the spare wheel sometimes jams up. Make it part of your routine to test it / loosen it from time to time. Don't wait until you need it before discovering that it is seized up.

37) Some people who have needed replacement engines have successfully fitted the 2.7 diesel engine out of a Jaguar. This is obviously a risky proposition as it is unclear just how much of the internals are different / similar or modified for Land Rover versus Jaguar.

Despite all of the above, almost all of us love our D3's and wouldn't want anything else. Don't have nightmares, do sleep well :)
 

mmbirtcher

Observer
Great advice! I feel more comfortable getting an LR3 now than ever. Sounds like they're a much better truck than the D2 was. I've been internet window shopping for a while and will continue to look for a white HD with under 100k and solid history. There seem to be few in St Louis, but I'd rather get one from south or west anyway and go pick it up to avoid corrosion issues.

I think I've been talked out of an 80 series at this point!
 

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