Land Rover U-joints

[Antichrist]

Rather than continuing to clutter Scott's thread, I tought I'd create one more specific.

I'm telling you, old timer, the 5-4x joint has been discontinued. I can't help what your good-buddy down at your local Pep-Boys tells you or what the out-dated Spicer web site says. The 5-4x is no where to be found. If you find them, get me a case of 24. I'll pay you a $50.00 finders fee.

Here are your "Made in the USA" Neapco joints.

You can buy these joints all day long at your local Auto Zone for 12.99. Auto Zone stocks two at a time. So if you're rebuilding your D2 front drive-shaft, plan ahead.

I'm sure you have found some of the older Made In the USA Neapco joints at your local auto parts store. It's left over stock. Once they reorder they will receive the Made In China joints. This includes the PDQ and Duralast part. I've seen and used your Made In the USA joints from Neapco:

In either case, the 1310 joint is more common. It just is. If your local-yokle parts store carries it, cool. But we do not always stay local and sometimes finding a parts store with less-common parts is a chore. Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Mazda, Chrystler, etc.. all use a 1310 u-joint. Besides Rover, I'm not sure what else uses the 1300 joints.



A pic is worth a 1000 words:

As for JSQ's comments, I'm not sure how a drive-shaft with 1310 u-joints can be dubbed the eXtreme-big-brother-trucker-breaker-breaker-one-nine-give-me-a-hell-yeah option. The Rover drive-train is junk; carrier, front axles, CV's, rear axles.... In every creditable "build", the "builder" replaces these items before calling their truck "built". "HD" axles, "HD" gears, "HD" carriers, "HD" CV's. But no "HD" drive-shaft? Why?

I do not have a Tom Woods drive-shaft here to compare, but here is a stock Rover drive flange:

It's a cast piece. It's pretty thin, too. If you've never seen one split open, don't worry, you will. If you've never attempted to change the u-joints and had a cap just fall out, don't worry about that, either. It's coming.

Can anyone post a picture of the Tom Woods shaft? It's night and day at the flanges.

As for the tube, sure, the Tom Woods tube is thicker. But I don't care who's shaft you have; if you dent the tube you're going to twist your shaft into a candy cane.

Beside, how much is Will Tillery going to sell you a drive-shaft for? $100.00? Add some new u-joints and you've got $140 in your shaft. How much is a brand new Tom Woods shaft? $100 more? Kind of a no-brainer if you ask me.

First, I do stand corrected on the 5-4x. Since the last time I talked to Dana/Spicer, a couple of years ago, they have in fact discontinued it. February 2008 to be exact. But for some time before that they weren't made by Spicer anyway. So I'm not sure what the big deal is about them.

I'm not sure why you are posting a photo of an Autozone Duralast u-joint. They aren't marketed or made by Neapco and never have been. I expect you're just confused because Autozone used to carry PDQ and kept using the PN when they outsourced to China when they switched to the Duralast line. The Duralast is from Neotac, but actually manufactured by various plants around China.
Anyone who has said that Duralast is/was made by Neapco is simply wrong.

The Neapco line (like you'd get a driveline shop), and the PDQ 1-0005, are in fact still made in the US. The PDQ 1-0154 is made in the US as well in case anyone reading this wants a 1310 series with the zerk in the end cap. Both are $12.99 at Advance Autoparts and other stores around the US.
Other PDQ, the high mover PN's, are outsourced because that's what the parts stores require. Cheap! The don't sell many 1-0005's or 1-0154's so they don't require the lower price on them, even though they sell them for the same price.
Those two specific PDQ u-joints are exactly the same u-joint you'd get at a driveline shop that carries Neapco.

I'm not sure what you think the broken u-joint photo proves. I can show you photos of broken 1310's, 1330's, 1350's, 1810's and so on. Any u-joint will fail if it is over stressed or improperly lubed.

I think JSQ's comment was saying that for 95% of Land Rover owners the stock propshafts (with 1300 series u-joints) are fine. Which I agree with.
I've never said or implied that the 1300's are as strong as 1310's. Though good quality 1300's may in fact be stronger that poor quality 1310's.

There are also rumors on the internet that Dana/Spicer has out-sourced their u-joints to China. According to the Spicer rep I spoke to today, that is not the case. They are still made in the US.

All of the above information came from Spicer or Neapco via two phone calls today to their respective technical folks.

I hope that clears it up for you Dan. Oops, I mean jeepfreak.

 

[jeepfreak]

I'm not even going to argue with you one this. I'm just going to point you back to my very first statement that there are more, more commonly available, quality 1310 u-joints than there are 1300's. Sure, "95%" of the folks will be just fine with 1300 u-joints made in China. 95% of the same folks will be just fine with stock carriers and stock axles, too.

The 1310's available are just better. Just like I said in my first post. End of story. And that does not even get into the quality in the aftermarkets shafts available.

 

[Geo14cux]

Rockford makes 1300's :wings:

 

[gjackson]

I'm not even going to argue with you one this. I'm just going to point you back to my very first statement that there are more, more commonly available, quality 1310 u-joints than there are 1300's. Sure, "95%" of the folks will be just fine with 1300 u-joints made in China. 95% of the same folks will be just fine with stock carriers and stock axles, too.

The 1310's available are just better. Just like I said in my first post. End of story. And that does not even get into the quality in the aftermarkets shafts available.

Kinda doesn't forgive the fact that the duralast u-joints you posted as neapco aren't. Doh!

I'll guess that wasn't the 'end of story'.

cheers

 

[Roverhound]

Kinda doesn't forgive the fact that the duralast u-joints you posted as neapco aren't. Doh!

I'll guess that wasn't the 'end of story'.

cheers

Go to Advance Auto and request Neapco u-joints. They will give you Neapco u-joints.
If you just tell them you want 1-0005 joints the parts monkey will give you whatever he has on hand. Of course he won't have 1-0005's on hand, he has to order them from the warehouse and he will have them tommorrow.

 

[sven]

Another option is to buy the OEM ones for around the same price as Neapco. GKN brand. He also stock hardy spicer for $40.

http://rovahfarm.com/DiscoIAxles.htm

 

[Antichrist]

I'm not even going to argue with you one this. I'm just going to point you back to my very first statement that there are more, more commonly available, quality 1310 u-joints than there are 1300's.

According to you, from other posts other places, Precision u-joints are junk. According to you, Neapco u-joints are junk. So really that only leaves Spicer as anything you can get locally, and not every parts store carries Spicer, so that really narrows how "commonly available" they are. NAPA might carry Spicer, I don't know. Last time I went to NAPA to get a u-joint, because I knew they used to carry Spicer, they were using GMB part numbers, and the u-joint said Made in Japan (or China, I can't remember which because I didn't buy it).

Sure, "95%" of the folks will be just fine with 1300 u-joints made in China.

You can keep repeating, or implying, that Neapco are made in China, that doesn't make it true. But, I think everyone else realizes that.

The 1310's available are just better.

Comparing same design from the same mfg 1300's and 1310's no one has ever said otherwise.

Go to Advance Auto and request Neapco u-joints. They will give you Neapco u-joints.
If you just tell them you want 1-0005 joints the parts monkey will give you whatever he has on hand. Of course he won't have 1-0005's on hand, he has to order them from the warehouse and he will have them tommorrow.

When I ask for 1-0005 u-joints they are always PDQ/Neapco that are given to me.
As for having them the next day, I can see that as possibly an issue. Though I'd be willing to bet most people who off-road hard enough to worry about breaking a u-joint carry spares, so that makes it not an issue.
Personally I carry a spare 1310 even though the odds of me breaking one are pretty slim.

 

[traveltoad]

Though I'd be willing to bet most people who off-road hard enough to worry about breaking a u-joint carry spares, so that makes it not an issue.

Exactly.

 

[Geo14cux]

ok in a nut shell
Who gives a *
you buy crap you get crap :costumed-smiley-007
http://www.rockforddriveline.com/neapcoto.htm

 

[max adams]

I work in a driveline shop and have built LR driveshafts. If you want the best bang for your buck, I would build a Spicer shaft with 1310 joints and a conversion flange to fit the LR bolt pattern and pilot. The flanges last quite along time unless the u-joints have a catastrophic failure and and the spinning shaft smashes the yoke etc. Spicer is well made and available everywhere, and the next time you need u-joints any supplier will have them on the shelf.
www.drivetec.ca

 

[jeepfreak]

According to you, from other posts other places, Precision u-joints are junk. According to you, Neapco u-joints are junk. So really that only leaves Spicer as anything you can get locally, and not every parts store carries Spicer, so that really narrows how "commonly available" they are. NAPA might carry Spicer, I don't know. Last time I went to NAPA to get a u-joint, because I knew they used to carry Spicer, they were using GMB part numbers, and the u-joint said Made in Japan (or China, I can't remember which because I didn't buy it).

Precision joints are made in Japan now. At one time they are USA made. That changed years ago. It's a fact that the "new" Precision joints are not lasting nearly as long as they once did. Besides that, it's simply not as good of a joint, by design, as the Spicers were. The grease zirk in the end cap it just a better, stronger, design.

NAPA carries Precicion joints. At least here they do. It has already been established that no one, not even NAPA, carries the Spicer 1300 joints.

You can keep repeating, or implying, that Neapco are made in China, that doesn't make it true. But, I think everyone else realizes that.

Is Neapco's are still made in the USA, I stand corrected. That has not been my experience, though. Two different companies using the same part numbers for the same item is a bit odd to me. I think it's too odd and almost coincidental. I think there is more to this story that someone is not telling. But lets go with your story that the Neapeco's are USA made and are still made to the standard they once were.

Comparing same design from the same mfg 1300's and 1310's no one has ever said otherwise.

No one is saying this. You are. I said that the 1310 u-joints are more commonly available and more options of better quality are available. Look at my first post in the other thread.

When I ask for 1-0005 u-joints they are always PDQ/Neapco that are given to me.

Well you must live in some parts source oddity. I've been out of town and needed a 1300 joint and could not find one. I was, in fact, in your neck of the woods. I called every parts store in Lawerencville, Dacula, Hamilton Mill, and Winder. Guess who had one? The Dealer in Buckhead. Everyone else would need to order one. I ended up just removing the drive-shaft and locking the t-case to drive my 550-mile trip home. This was documented on Dweb if you think I'm pulling this out of my a**.

As for having them the next day, I can see that as possibly an issue. Though I'd be willing to bet most people who off-road hard enough to worry about breaking a u-joint carry spares, so that makes it not an issue.

Yes, getting them the next day IS an issue. This is the very point I made in post #1 on the other thread. I'm glad you're starting to understand.

As for carrying one with you anyway, sure, most of us do if we're traveling off-road. When I go out of town I'm not also going off-road so there is no sense in carrying a Pelican full of extra parts. I keep a brake switch in the glove compartment and that's really about it.

But let's say you're fixing you truck in the "field" and you loose a needle bearing out of one of your caps. I've done this when replacing u-joints in the garage before, so it could easily happen in the field, especially is you're replacing a joint on a double-cardon shaft. What's your fix for this? Carry two joints?

The point is, Tom, you can walk into ANY parts store in about any Country and find a 1310 u-joint. This is not always the case with the 1300 u-joints. There are more quality manufactures of the 1310 u-joints, too, so finding that quality made joint is a heck of a lot easier to do. You can only name one quality u-joint made to fit the stock drive-shaft. Everything else is Chinese pot metal. It's just a fact that the 1310 joints are easier to get, better made, stronger, and in the end more desirable to own. Scott is building his truck to be reliable when out off-road. Why in the world would anyone compromise their truck with inferior parts? Everything from the yoke to the tube to the slip joint to the u-joints....Tom Woods makes a better shaft with 1310's.

If you go off-road as much as you do, the 1300's are just fine and this thread means nothing to you. I know that Atlanta traffic can be rough on your vehicles, and pulling into your parking lot off Peachtree Street is a task. I'm surprised you haven't cut a sidewall or broken a CV yet.

 

[max adams]

But let's say you're fixing you truck in the "field" and you loose a needle bearing out of one of your caps. I've done this when replacing u-joints in the garage before, so it could easily happen in the field, especially is you're replacing a joint on a double-cardon shaft. What's your fix for this? Carry two joints?

If you are in the field and lost a needle bearing, your best bet would be to break or cut another needle in half. Having a short needle or 2 is much better than a gap, but this is only a short term trail fix. A gap will wear quickly and missing a couple needles won't center in the cap properly. Definately correct the problem when possible.

 

[Antichrist]

I've presented facts (the one misstatement corrected) as opposed to rumor and inuendo so I'm going to do what you didn't.

I'm not even going to argue with you one this. (sic.)

 

[zimm]

If you are in the field and lost a needle bearing, your best bet would be to break or cut another needle in half. Having a short needle or 2 is much better than a gap, but this is only a short term trail fix. A gap will wear quickly and missing a couple needles won't center in the cap properly. Definately correct the problem when possible.

how do you break a needle bearing in the field w/o deforming it to the point of uselessness?

im not sying it cant be done, i just wanna know how to do it.

 

[Maryland 110]

NAPA carry two lines for Landrovers. One is made in the USA the other Japan. They had two each in stock so I took all four. The Japanese parts were $8 cheaper and way better @ around $22 ea.
I carry a pair in the truck.