Land Rover vs. Syncro t3 Vanagon
- Thread starter paco_1
- Start date
PolarBearX
Observer
I have nothing to contribute to your answer either than I love both of those platforms. Also, I will be in Queretaro next month! Whoop whoop!
Haf-E
Expedition Leader
Syncro's are great but they are getting old and getting parts can be a problem in lots of areas. LR is still in production and seem to have reasonable parts supply internationally.
Many prefer sleeping inside of the vehicle instead of on top - but it depends on where you are going and how... rooftents are not stealthy.
You didn't mention Toyota... or Jeep.
Many prefer sleeping inside of the vehicle instead of on top - but it depends on where you are going and how... rooftents are not stealthy.
You didn't mention Toyota... or Jeep.
T.Low
Expedition Leader
Yotavans are getting old, too.
the Land Rover leaks oil while the Syncro leaks coolant
just joking...they don't really compare unless you are talking about an older Land Rover Series.
just joking...they don't really compare unless you are talking about an older Land Rover Series.
Rovertrader
Supporting Sponsor
Budget would help a lot. I have heard the Syncros demand a premium, which could put you into a newer LR like an LR3 in which case a no brainer to me. But if you are talking older high mile Disco or Defender, get a shop manual and be a bit handy. Zero experience with the Syncros, sorry... But a lot of times when paying for a cult like vehicle, you don't always get a lot for your dollar value wise.
Also, how many on board will make a difference. If just two, an LR3 with rear seats down provides quite a lot of room. No comparison on comfort between the two.
We- a family of four, drove from Belize to Guatemala then north through Mexico to Texas and back to NC this spring in a D-130 and did great if that helps...
Also, how many on board will make a difference. If just two, an LR3 with rear seats down provides quite a lot of room. No comparison on comfort between the two.
We- a family of four, drove from Belize to Guatemala then north through Mexico to Texas and back to NC this spring in a D-130 and did great if that helps...
clift_d
New member
We've got a 1988 Syncro high top Westy which we love.
It sleeps four with ease and has everything laid out inside so we can be camp ready and cooking supper within ten minutes of pitching up. It's still got its original 1.6TD which gives us a comfortable 70mph on the motorway, although there's no denying it could do with more horsepower up hills. Looked after they're reliable and can be competent performers off road, but they'll never be a swamper or a Moab rock crawler, but that doesn't matter because that isn't what we have it for. With regard to parts, there are specialists like GoWesty or Brickwerks who stock the tricky stuff but also VW has a massive global supply chain that can still spit out spares for these in all sorts of parts of the world if you turn up with a part code. Couple that with the number of mechanics worldwide that have basic experience of keeping these things on the road - the Transporter base vans are used everywhere from ambulances in Greenland to taxis in Nigeria and in between, and you have a fairly stable platform that can be kept running pretty much anywhere.
In the end it all comes down to personal preference. They're not for everyone, but for us it lets us get up and out quickly which in the end is what counts.
It sleeps four with ease and has everything laid out inside so we can be camp ready and cooking supper within ten minutes of pitching up. It's still got its original 1.6TD which gives us a comfortable 70mph on the motorway, although there's no denying it could do with more horsepower up hills. Looked after they're reliable and can be competent performers off road, but they'll never be a swamper or a Moab rock crawler, but that doesn't matter because that isn't what we have it for. With regard to parts, there are specialists like GoWesty or Brickwerks who stock the tricky stuff but also VW has a massive global supply chain that can still spit out spares for these in all sorts of parts of the world if you turn up with a part code. Couple that with the number of mechanics worldwide that have basic experience of keeping these things on the road - the Transporter base vans are used everywhere from ambulances in Greenland to taxis in Nigeria and in between, and you have a fairly stable platform that can be kept running pretty much anywhere.
In the end it all comes down to personal preference. They're not for everyone, but for us it lets us get up and out quickly which in the end is what counts.
vwhammer
Adventurer
The only Land Rover I have owned was a Discovery II.
I currently own a Vanagon.
My particular van is not a Syncro but I have done a lot of research on the Syncro and the 2WD versions share a lot of parts.
The main issue that I think plagues both of these vehicles is lack of maintenance.
Neither is a vehicle that you can neglect and expect to work reliably.
With that said, Here is my opinion.
I tend to think the Vanagon is way more useful, way more reliable and a hell of a lot easier to fix.
After my Land Rover experience I no longer have a place in my heart for the Land Rover.
The concept is sound; durable suspension, capable off road, good size for tighter trails, Stylish (if you care about that sort of thing) and it has what is arguably the best transfer case ever produced in the history of transfer cases. (the locking models anyway.. Make sure you get one with a locking transfer case if you get one)
However Land Rover tried to cram all this electronic doohickery into the Disco II all while trying to use leftover bits and and spend zero dollars to keep their company alive.
I Rambled on on the land rover forums that Land Rover should be ashamed of themselves for ever making the Disco II available to the public.
Like most things, I researched a bunch before I bought my Disco and, being an ASE certified tech, I figured I could do the work and get it all tip top.
I found what I thought was a good one and made the leap.
It ran all of about a month before the first repair that set me back $600 in parts.
I fixed that and drove for another month before the next repair that set me back another $450.
I knew they were maintenance queens but jesus I thought I might get 6 months out of it between repairs.
Finally, after the dreaded land rover head gasket failure that occurred simultaneously with an oil pressure sending unit failure that sprayed oil all over the engine bay I had had enough.
I sold it for 25% of what I paid for it and have never looked back.
So, as I mentioned the Vanagons are a lot less complicated hence a lot easier to fix.
Every thing on the Disco seemed needlessly complicated.
Vanagons are also a lot more efficient in their design.
They make the best use of space and eliminate the need for a trailer or rooftop tent or anything else for that matter.
Even if you don't want a full on camper model you can put the rear seat/bed in one of the passenger models and have a plain old van for whatever use.
Then when it comes time to hit the trail you're practically driving your hotel so there is no need to bring a tent or any of that garbage.
The Vanagon does have a few disadvantages.
The heater system seems pretty complicated and does not work all that great.
Also if you plan on rock crawling, a Syncro is not the thing for you.
The overhangs and lack of suspension travel can limit them in some instances.
Lastly, you obviously can't buy a new syncro or even a 20 year old Syncro.
Most that you find, unless you are buying a fully restored $80,000 version, will need some work to get them back into shape and back to a reliable state.
I have been a VW guy since 1993 so maybe I am a little biased but I would be real careful about any Land Rover you may look at.
Spend a little extra up front and make sure it has maintenance records.
However, that is no guarantee that the head gasket will not fail 3 days after you buy it.
I currently own a Vanagon.
My particular van is not a Syncro but I have done a lot of research on the Syncro and the 2WD versions share a lot of parts.
The main issue that I think plagues both of these vehicles is lack of maintenance.
Neither is a vehicle that you can neglect and expect to work reliably.
With that said, Here is my opinion.
I tend to think the Vanagon is way more useful, way more reliable and a hell of a lot easier to fix.
After my Land Rover experience I no longer have a place in my heart for the Land Rover.
The concept is sound; durable suspension, capable off road, good size for tighter trails, Stylish (if you care about that sort of thing) and it has what is arguably the best transfer case ever produced in the history of transfer cases. (the locking models anyway.. Make sure you get one with a locking transfer case if you get one)
However Land Rover tried to cram all this electronic doohickery into the Disco II all while trying to use leftover bits and and spend zero dollars to keep their company alive.
I Rambled on on the land rover forums that Land Rover should be ashamed of themselves for ever making the Disco II available to the public.
Like most things, I researched a bunch before I bought my Disco and, being an ASE certified tech, I figured I could do the work and get it all tip top.
I found what I thought was a good one and made the leap.
It ran all of about a month before the first repair that set me back $600 in parts.
I fixed that and drove for another month before the next repair that set me back another $450.
I knew they were maintenance queens but jesus I thought I might get 6 months out of it between repairs.
Finally, after the dreaded land rover head gasket failure that occurred simultaneously with an oil pressure sending unit failure that sprayed oil all over the engine bay I had had enough.
I sold it for 25% of what I paid for it and have never looked back.
So, as I mentioned the Vanagons are a lot less complicated hence a lot easier to fix.
Every thing on the Disco seemed needlessly complicated.
Vanagons are also a lot more efficient in their design.
They make the best use of space and eliminate the need for a trailer or rooftop tent or anything else for that matter.
Even if you don't want a full on camper model you can put the rear seat/bed in one of the passenger models and have a plain old van for whatever use.
Then when it comes time to hit the trail you're practically driving your hotel so there is no need to bring a tent or any of that garbage.
The Vanagon does have a few disadvantages.
The heater system seems pretty complicated and does not work all that great.
Also if you plan on rock crawling, a Syncro is not the thing for you.
The overhangs and lack of suspension travel can limit them in some instances.
Lastly, you obviously can't buy a new syncro or even a 20 year old Syncro.
Most that you find, unless you are buying a fully restored $80,000 version, will need some work to get them back into shape and back to a reliable state.
I have been a VW guy since 1993 so maybe I am a little biased but I would be real careful about any Land Rover you may look at.
Spend a little extra up front and make sure it has maintenance records.
However, that is no guarantee that the head gasket will not fail 3 days after you buy it.
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Hellenic vanagon
New member
George Raptopoulos, 1990, trial champion in Greece. Syncro with Porsche 3.2 l 230 hp engine.
Low stealth flight
One of his main rivals: Moschus with Land Rover Defender
A "Landy" for Syncro
"I have extensive experience with Puch Pinzgauer 4X4 and 6X6 , Unimogs, as well as heavy 4X4 and 6X6 trucks (26ton) and I am in possession of an EC code licence for the last 37 years. So I think I have a fair idea of what I am talking about also due to my instructing in heavy off road vehicles in the Swiss Army."
"The VW T3 Syncro Bus, must be the best performing vehicle on dirt roads ever!"
"Koos
just a short one on high speed driving on dirt roads in general. There are two main issues we have to look at:
If you take for example the VW T3 Syncro Bus, that must be the best performing vehicle on dirt roads ever! Hi speeds no problem, until you hit an area with soft sand or fine dust a few centimetres deep. Then all hell brakes loose and one has both hands full to tame the beast, but it will emerge on all four wheels for two reasons:
1. Independant suspension all round
2. Torque sensing centre diff (Viscous coupling as in some RR's) which automatically transfers traction to the axle that benefits most from this.
Now if we look at the Disco1, Disco2 and Defenders, all those vehicles are at a disadvantage up front for the following reasons:
1. Live (beam) axles front and rear - This can result in trampling on very corrugated surfaces and if that is around a corner the "fun" really starts
2. Open centre diff, which puts power normally to the axle with the least traction
That is why it is highly advisable to lock the centre diff on untarred roads so that the power delivery is at least directed to both axles.
3. When we now introduce LSD especially on the front axle, this will assist with directional stability, as one of the front wheel s cannot start spinning uncontrollably under power (or deccelerate under engine braking) which would affect directional stability with very often a flick roll onto the roof.
So there you have it guys."
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w-gNsuC2KPEJ:[url]www.landyonline.co.za/landyforum/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D5%26p%3D12946+GOLF+syncro+rear +differential+LOCKER&cd=138&hl=el&ct=clnk&gl=gr&client=opera[/URL]
http://vid361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/VSDISCOVERY1.mp4
http://vid361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic_vanagon/VSDISCOVERY2.mp4
Accuracy at any speed (200 km/h +)!
Welcome!
http://www.4tforum.gr/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=49098
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photogdave
Adventurer
Did someone say rock crawling in Moab?
[video=vimeo;43476654]https://vimeo.com/43476654[/video]
[video=vimeo;43476654]https://vimeo.com/43476654[/video]
Hellenic vanagon
New member
Very nice!
Hellenic vanagon
New member
There are and other, newer and more expensive, Land Rovers, of course.
So, we can choose a comparison between,
Range Rover, (last model), vs Syncro.
So, we can choose a comparison between,
Range Rover, (last model), vs Syncro.
Tires. Tires are going on there.
Hellenic vanagon
New member
Range Rover Sport weights 5540 lbs (2500 kgr.).
http://www.edmunds.com/land-rover/range-rover-sport/2012/features-specs/
Syncro Westfalia weights 4000 lbs (1860 kgr.)
http://vanagon.com/info/years/1989/index.htm#1989_vanagon_gl_camper_syncro
So there is a tremendous difference of 1500 lbs, in the mud.
There is no comparison between electronic locker differentials and real, solid, 100%, Steyr lockers, also.
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