Larger brakes for '07 E350 6.0LTD SuperDuty RB

[mk216v]

Hi all,

Please bear with me here. I've searched the forums, asked trusted associates, and even SSBC's tech dept, and I still don't have a straight answer. Maybe someone here knows about 13" and 14" front rotors?(scroll to bottom of post for most simplified question)


Here's what I'm looking to do;
In looking for larger front brakes for VANdiana ('07 E350 6.0LTD w/ UJOR 4WD kit, using an '04 F350 SuperDuty 4x4 front axle...so 13" stock front rotors), I'm still shocked that no one makes a complete BBK; Baer nor SSBC nor AP Racing nor Brembo. I suppose their marketing dept's don't foresee that of ALL of the Ford vans/trucks manufactured, even a small majority (especially those towing) will need larger brakes? Anyways, moving off the soapbox...

So my two upgrade choices are the RSC 14.5" upgrade thru Chris at UJOR (~$4000, due to numerous upgraded components in front sups), or SSBC's 8piston front calipers/rotors/pads(~$1350 BBC3/ProfessorPaddle in Seattle has).

While I'd love the RSC, it's more than I want to spend currently. I figure I'll try the SSBC option first, so my question pertains to SSBC's offerings.

They state the 8pot front calipers use stock rotors and bolt to stock spindles;
http://ssbrakes.com/i-10093222-caliper-set-v8-quick-change-aluminum-caliper-upgrade-kit.html

Now when looking at the Big Bite rotor options, there are both a 13" and 14" rotor options available, depending on axle ratio.
Looking at the left rotors only here for comparison purposes;
13", SKU# 23541AA3L; for vehicles with 3.73 / 4.10 & 4.30 ratios built on or After 3-22-99
http://ssbrakes.com/i-10093189-rotor-big-bite-cross-drilled-slotted-left-front.html

14", SKU# 23540AA3L; for vehicles with 4.88 / 5.38 ratios built on or After 3-22-99
http://ssbrakes.com/i-10093185-rotor-big-bite-cross-drilled-slotted-left-front.html

Now my F350 front axle was a 3.73 so it makes sense I have 13" rotors.

So....if their 8pot calipers are for use with stock rotors(13" or 14"), AND bolt to stock spindles, then this tells me that EITHER the spindles are different from 3.73/4.10/4.30(13") and 4.88/5.38(14") rigs, but accept the same stock caliper--just push it farther out for the 14" setup(and hence maybe the spindles are interchangeable where I could upgrade to a 4.88 spindle and thus run 14" rotors??)...OR maybe the 3.73/etc and 4.88/etc spindles are the same BUT the caliper brackets for each spindle are unique(and hence I could upgrade to the 4.88 caliper brackets and run 14" rotors??).


Simplified question; on my '07 E350 6.0L, if I have 13" front rotors, can I upgrade to 14" rotors????


Thank you for any help,
Jeremy

 

[ujoint]

The 4.88's only came in 450's & 550's which have different knuckles than the 250/350's. The "ears" that the calipers bolt to are further apart for the larger calipers & rotors so thats why they're not interchangeable.

 

[TheViking]

Have you tried cross drilled and slotted rotors yet with performance pads?

 

[Bbasso]

My question is, why do you need bigger/different brakes?

 

[Mwilliamshs]

Need/want whatever...hope you find something that suits you. Brake upgrades are never bad ideas in my opinion. Hope this thread stays on course. We need these resources.

 

[bknudtsen]

My question is, why do you need bigger/different brakes?

Try running an 8000lb rig with heavy 35" tires through places like Moab and Colorado. You run out of braking power very quickly, even crawling in 4Lo.

 

[Bikersmurf]

Try running an 8000lb rig with heavy 35" tires through places like Moab and Colorado. You run out of braking power very quickly, even crawling in 4Lo.

X2... Even worse at 9000+ with an Ambo. I quickly miss the performance of 4wheel disc brakes in my 4600 lb Fj40... It has way more brakes than my ambulance package E350.

 

[ujoint]

I wish I had a 550 knuckle here to show the difference....

Just to clarify, the RSC axle upgrade also comes with knuckles, spindles, hubs, 5 spline stub shafts, wheel bearings, Warn premium locking hubs, calipers & rotors.

And, all 99-04 250's & 350's have the same size brakes. All ratios, all the same. SRW, DRW, all the same.

 

[Bbasso]

I was just wondering...

Bigger and stronger brakes are always welcome on our heavy rigs!

 

[mk216v]

The 4.88's only came in 450's & 550's which have different knuckles than the 250/350's. The "ears" that the calipers bolt to are further apart for the larger calipers & rotors so thats why they're not interchangeable.

Thanks much Chris.

So I'm clear, you're saying that the 250/350 knuckle/caliper bracket/caliper/13"rotor are all(4 pieces) different from the knuckle/caliper bracket/caliper/14" rotor on the 450/550's? I ask because SSBC only offers only ONE 8piston caliper(SKU: A193-1), which they say fits BOTH the 250/350 13" rotor AND the 450/550 14" rotor ("Must be used with stock size rotors. Bolts to stock spindles"). So I'm not sure how they have 1 caliper, able to bolt to two different caliper bracket/knuckles... <confused>


Maybe this is a custom caliper bracket project for MG, hehe. :chef:

 

[mk216v]

Try running an 8000lb rig with heavy 35" tires through places like Moab and Colorado. You run out of braking power very quickly, even crawling in 4Lo.

Actually ~9500lbs for our 2wk UT trip. <eek>
Of course Ford engineers didn't expect us to mod these vans like we are, I get it, but still, 13" rotors for a van with such a large payload? Scary(cars on the market that weigh half as much are getting at least 12.6" rotors as standard).

But while I'd prefer to upgrade to 14" rotors(if I'm going to buy new SSBC rotors anyways and I can somehow upgrade from 13" to 14", I'd rather buy 14's), hence my question above, the larger rotor will mainly act as a larger heat sink under repetitive braking, which I don't do that often, so it's not priority #1. Right now I need much better initial bite(upgraded pads could help yes, but going a step beyond that, 8piston calipers should help considerably too), then improved pedal feel(I'll look into the E450 Hydroboost setup). The larger rotors would be icing on the cake.

 

[mk216v]

I wish I had a 550 knuckle here to show the difference....

Just to clarify, the RSC axle upgrade also comes with knuckles, spindles, hubs, 5 spline stub shafts, wheel bearings, Warn premium locking hubs, calipers & rotors.

And, all 99-04 250's & 350's have the same size brakes. All ratios, all the same. SRW, DRW, all the same.

I wish you did too!

Yes, thanks for clarifying Chris. In NO WAY is the UJOR RSC 14.5" upgrade undervalued, I don't want anyone to misinterpret me saying that. It's just that since my van is already UJOR 4WD'd up front, I already have similar components up there which I'd be paying for again with the RSC upgrade, so I'm trying to refrain from "doubling up."

 

[mk216v]

Have you tried cross drilled and slotted rotors yet with performance pads?

Not yet. See post above about the desire to upgrade the rotor size 1" if I'm going to be buying new rotors anyways.

 

[ujoint]

Thanks much Chris.

So I'm clear, you're saying that the 250/350 knuckle/caliper bracket/caliper/13"rotor are all(4 pieces) different from the knuckle/caliper bracket/caliper/14" rotor on the 450/550's? I ask because SSBC only offers only ONE 8piston caliper(SKU: A193-1), which they say fits BOTH the 250/350 13" rotor AND the 450/550 14" rotor ("Must be used with stock size rotors. Bolts to stock spindles"). So I'm not sure how they have 1 caliper, able to bolt to two different caliper bracket/knuckles... <confused>


Maybe this is a custom caliper bracket project for MG, hehe. :chef:

There aren't any caliper brackets, just knuckles and the unit bearing. Only major difference is the ears for the caliper. The ears on the 450/550 are longer so the caliper sits further away from the axle center. Thats how SSBC is able to use the same caliper.

 

[derjack]

Actually ~9500lbs for our 2wk UT trip. <eek>
.... Scary(cars on the market that weigh half as much are getting at least 12.6" rotors as standard)...

Note braking or better stopping power is not just the rotor size! Of course there is physics behind that, for sure. The calipers have a huge part in the conversion of energy into heat.
This said there are 2 types of moving pistons inside calipers but I am leaving this aside.

The Ford calipers are relatively huge and they have a 2-piston set up! That makes a big difference. Just an example out of my mind, but you can transfer this to other cars as well:
A BMW e46 M3 is for sure a fast car with well known stopping power - BUT it has just a single piston in the caliper in a 330 mm (12,12"?) rotor.

Anyway I am fully with you on better brakes! This can safe lifes.


I know most of you are on the newer rigs, as the after 99 front axle is convertible with ujoint lift. Does anyone have the info about the rotor size of the ones before 99, like from 1992-1999?