LC vs Trooper vs Montero

[dylanblada]

Thanks for the input.
I'm with you with the diesel thing, which is really one of the main issues.
Since my OP, I got some responses back from several well-known shops that specialize in diesel conversions for an 80 series and it seems that most would run around $15k. Definitely more than I was hoping. I also emailed a few companies that are EPA certified to import diesel vehicles, but haven't heard back yet. I'll try to call them later this week. I was hoping for bo more than $10k for at least one of the options.
If it turns out that the import option is out, then I might just get a 100 series and roll with that. Something like this is what I would be shooting for: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50317

I know the trip can easily be done with a gas engine, but its about have the ideal vehicle. I was sold on diesel after reading the Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide by Tom Sheppard. I even emailed Mr. Sheppard and he wrote a nice email back and pretty much echoed my concerns. The range and safety benefits are as important as MPG for me.

Another idea mentioned earlier is to fly down to say Panama or another country and buy the right vehicle there and do the rest of the trip in that. I would be concerned about getting it registered and how that might affect border crossings and such. I wonder if there is some sly way to get it back home on the way back.... Or maybe figure out some way to get an 80 from Canada since their import rule is only 15 years (not 25 like the USA).

 

[Box Rocket]

Out of everything that has been mentioned in this thread I don't understand what the question is. Simply put I think the 80 series LC is the handsdown choice of vehicle for this type of travel. Reliability and durability are much better. You stated early on that you were concerned about the lack of power with the I-6 in the LC, but most of the vehicles you've mentioned with a diesel motor or one that's been converted to diesel will have similar or less power than the 1FZ motor in the Cruiser. As for fuel mileage, I understand its importance, but as others have said, overall reliability and availability of parts and services along your route FAR outweigh fuel mileage IMO. LC's are likely far more common on the route you are travelling and if you needed repairs chances are better that you'll find someone who can help you fix it. You also mention the 100 series cruiser but from my understanding the V8 that is in them here in the US is much less common outside of the US. Many of the non-US cruisers are the 105 model with the same 1FZ that is in the 80 series or a diesel motor. So if you take a US spec 100 series you may have difficulty finding parts for it.

I have not owned a Trooper or a Montero, but a good friend of mine had a 1998 Trooper and he came out on a few off-road trips with us. He always made it home without incident, but we were always holding our breath that it would survive. It did, however, so take that for what it's worth. But it was never even a thought with the LC's.

Same goes for my brother in law who owns a Montero. They can handle quite a bit, but he's feeling like its starting to fall apart all around him and it's got 140K miles on it. My 1993 80 series has almost 250K miles on it, with a fair number of those miles spent off-road and it's easily the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

Back in 1998 my wife worked at a local Land Rover Dealership and with her employee discount we were able to purchase a brand new Discovery with the same payment we had on our used Subaru Impreza. We ditched the Impreza and bought the LR obviously. I must say I was personally not very impressed. Even though it had a V8 it felt very underpowered for a V8. Felt like similar power to the LC. It leaked oil from the day we bought it. And overall the build quality did not feel anywhere near as tight and refined as the Cruiser. The one thing I did like better about the Discovery was it's overall size. That could change from one person to the next, or from one trip to the next. But it's overall size being slightly smaller than the 80 series LC was nice and I felt like I could possibly maneuver tight sections of trail with slightly less concern for body damage. At the same time I think the Cruiser outperforms the Discovery on the trail in almost any conditions.

So, take it purely as one more person's opinion, but the 80 series is a no-brainer to me if I were making this trip.

I assume you have read about Dave Connor's Expedition Americas trip that was exactly what you are planning? If you haven't, I suggest you read his blog that documented his trip and look through his gallery. The trip was done in a 1997 80 Series LC.
EXPEDITION AMERICAS

 

[dylanblada]

Yep I have read his blog and many others. I also subscribe to Overland Journal, and Toyota Trails, mainly to get an in depth look at vehicles and trips you can't always get online. I've also read several books about similar trips and also the aforementioned VDEG. So I have a good idea of what I'm looking for even though most of my knowledge is secondhand at best.
The discussion has evolved away form the first post, but the idea was to compare the durability of the other trucks. Your post was what I was waiting to hear. I have heard that the drivetrain of the Trooper are built even stronger than the 80 and they do get somewhat better economy. So if the Trooper was cheaper and as reliable, I may as well go with that. And from many stories I've seen like yours, I haven't really considered the Disco.

But like you said, the Toyotas really are the best choice.

I have 3 criteria for engine choice: reliability, economy, and power. My hesitation with the 80's gasoline engine was that although they are very reliable, they are terrible on fuel, and don't have much power. Whereas the diesel engine doesn't have much power, but it is reliable, and at least decent on fuel. And as outlined before, diesel has numerous advantages over gas including increased range and thus less need for extra fuel and less payload used by fuel. I think now that the 100 series is the top option if I don't/can't go diesel as that meets 2/3.

I'm not too worried about the reliability of any of these engines. I'll get all preventative maintenance done before leaving and I'll carry a few spares for the common issues. I am comfortable doing a lot of work on my own, especially with a service manual in hand.

I also might consider a 4th gen 4runner, based mainly on less physical size/weight to manage and economy. But since a nice 4runner is still at least as expensive as an early 100 series, I may as well go with a 100.

Thanks again Adam.

 

[007]

Nice advice here!

Don't worry about going anywhere with gasoline, its safe, effective and well proven

In fact, I wouldn't trade my 4cyl gas motor for its diesel counterpart if offered free of charge! The good mileage(25), high revs, and excellent reliability make it my all-time favorite power plant so far. I love how it starts in 40 below weather, and its been fortunate to receive refills at gas pumps offering only gasoline and not diesel! God forbid anything fail in that motor, before its scheduled 300,000 mile rebuild, but if so, I could actually lift it out and break it all down using a 100pc toolkit. So the 4dr Tacoma would be my next choice is what I was getting at

But thats a 2.7L in a small Tacoma, and the Land Cruiser is a different animal!

The mileage of the LC is a big issue for me also, I've been looking at the 80's for a friend and its a shame they didn't put an efficient motor in them. Oh well, you can always swap it later, and I'd probably prefer that over buying a retro-ed one.

Anyway, you can't go wrong with a LC or many others.

Focus on how fun your trips are going to be regardless of what got you there! You have the rest of your life to dwell on the rig, but trips come and go in the moment, Good luck!

 

[dylanblada]

Great advice 007.

I have considered the Tacoma with a topper. I would probably get a 2nd gen ('05+) Access Cab. But then it gets to be the same situation as the 4Runner: costs as much (or more) and it has noticeably better economy, but probably not built to the same standard as an LC100. I have several Taco rigs bookmarked for future reference for sure though!

 

[007]

Great advice 007.

I have considered the Tacoma with a topper. I would probably get a 2nd gen ('05+) Access Cab. But then it gets to be the same situation as the 4Runner: costs as much (or more) and it has noticeably better economy, but probably not built to the same standard as an LC100. I have several Taco rigs bookmarked for future reference for sure though!

Honestly, I would be more shy of the 05+ U.S. made runner/tacoma, than its 01-04 predessesor from Japan. I've had both, and the older is a much better made truck in most aspects. A 'Scott brady style' 4dr Tacoma, - but with a properly geared 2.7L would be on par with any LC for performance and reliability. Toyota is the King of twin overhead 4cyl gas motors, not to mention stout IFS supensions that offer great and reliable handling. These two things go a bit unnoticed outside the racing realm it seems.

I'm sorry for getting off topic!

Don't you think its more of an emotional draw to get a disel powered, solid axle land cruiser, than it is a tacoma? But a tacoma is still a very logical choice, and to me - or any two people, a better choice than a gas powered Land cruiser.

Welcome to the Expo btw

 

[dylanblada]

Hmm.. I hadn't thought about that the early Tacos are built in Japan... and The Expeditions West White Taco is awesome and pretty close to how I would build it. It would be a bit less expensive to buy and maintain than an LC, but I was concerned about interior space for a long term trip with two big dudes (no, not really fat, just big). I guess I'd have to drive one to see for sure, but I know the '05+ are noticeably larger which is why I suggested those. Not ti mention a loaded truck will easily be pushing the load limits of the engine and suspension.

 

[dylanblada]

Actually a quick check shows that the 03-04 Tacos are at least the same price of the LC100 if not more (kinda ridiculous) so not much reason to go with the Taco vs the other benefits of the Cruiser.

 

[007]

Hmm.. I hadn't thought about that the early Tacos are built in Japan... and The Expeditions West White Taco is awesome and pretty close to how I would build it. It would be a bit less expensive to buy and maintain than an LC, but I was concerned about interior space for a long term trip with two big dudes (no, not really fat, just big). I guess I'd have to drive one to see for sure, but I know the '05+ are noticeably larger which is why I suggested those. Not ti mention a loaded truck will easily be pushing the load limits of the engine and suspension.

The room isn't much different really, they filled it up a bit with plastic styling so that its actually a bit cramped up front. If you went the truck route I would suggest a rack that places the rtt higher off the bed rails than Scott's, but not above the cab, and keep all the cargo in lockable metal bins that open from the top like a lid, not hinged in the middle like a case. Keep the fridge and fuel cans between the axles for better weight distribution and the spare underneath so you don't have to mess with a tire carrier to drop the tailgate or access the back.

The advantage to this is that you can access all the cargo super easily without shuffling cargo or opening doors and drawers to get to what you use all the time. It seems trivial, but effortless cargo management is a huge deal for me. I like to be stowing back the cleaned dishes by the time most people have their kitchens set up to light! A tailgate and bolted in cargo bins are a pretty efficient system. A rtt mounted at 6ft is also better to deal with than one on top of a cruiser. Btw, a 1600 T-Top is an awesome setup for two big dudes wanting their space.

Kay I'll shut up about the little pickups already!

 

[dylanblada]

Haha don't worry, any ideas are good ideas here. The Taco was one of my first choices. I would have to get an Auto though, as neither one of us are experienced at using that weird 3rd pedal, plus autos have definite advantages in expo vehicles.

I totally agree with your ideas about weight distribution and tire carriers and such, but if I went this route (haven't ruled it out) then I would definitely get a topper (with no windows and outside accessible storage lockers instead of windows). I'm not positive, but I think we will probably stick with ground camping as opposed to the space, weight, mpg, and cost loses of a good RTT. If I was traveling with a female companion, it might be different, but 2 big guys in a little tent on a little truck would not be cool for 6 months haha.

One benefit of a Tacoma, would be the easy of use for things other than trips, not that that is a big consideration. I'm shopping right now for a fun/fast/cool daily driver. Thinking E46 M3, S4 (w/ V8), or maybe newer Miata (not sure about actually fitting in that). Possibly something like a MB CL500 or older late 90's E55.

 

[007]

Haha don't worry, any ideas are good ideas here. The Taco was one of my first choices. I would have to get an Auto though, as neither one of us are experienced at using that weird 3rd pedal, plus autos have definite advantages in expo vehicles.

I totally agree with your ideas about weight distribution and tire carriers and such, but if I went this route (haven't ruled it out) then I would definitely get a topper (with no windows and outside accessible storage lockers instead of windows). I'm not positive, but I think we will probably stick with ground camping as opposed to the space, weight, mpg, and cost loses of a good RTT. If I was traveling with a female companion, it might be different, but 2 big guys in a little tent on a little truck would not be cool for 6 months haha.

One benefit of a Tacoma, would be the easy of use for things other than trips, not that that is a big consideration. I'm shopping right now for a fun/fast/cool daily driver. Thinking E46 M3, S4 (w/ V8), or maybe newer Miata (not sure about actually fitting in that). Possibly something like a MB CL500 or older late 90's E55.

The 1600 T_top is Huge, Its like a wall tent with a queen sized loft, you would be thankful for it during a 6 month trip no doubt!

A topper is no good really, except keeping you from what you need and causing a lot of shuffling. Weather proof boxes with lockable lids that you can get to from three sides is really where its at. Plus, the topper puts the rtt up where you do notice the performance drop. Below cab height its hardly there really.
Like this one: 007s build

As for the cars, those are good, also look at the Porsche and G35, (infiniti styled 350Z w/4 seats)

 

[dylanblada]

The RTT would be a nice thing to have, but I don't think its needed. I do like your setup, especially for domestic travel. The boxes just wouldn't work in my case. I'd be pretty scared about prying eyes trying to get into the boxes, especially in outside the US. If I used a topper, everything would be pretty well organized and easily accessible in drawers, tote boxes, or oth compartments. I've actually considered and seen a few similar setups that used a hard tonneau cover to keep everything safe and allow for low mounting of a RTT. To each his own though, whatever works for you. Thanks for the help.

As for a the car: great minds think alike... the G35 is a backup and I love their loos and they are at least as quick as the E46, in a straight line at least. And for the Porsche you mean the Boxster? Definitly considerded them bor awhile, but more or less ruled out because the engine is difficult to work on at home and no LSD available. I'm looking to spend no more than $20k less is better. But anyway, that's a different thread...

 

[78Bronco]

The Montero/Pajero has a good reputation in Africa, Japan, Aus and the rest of the world. My 2.8L Pajero is a decent piece of junk.

Is it a Toyota LC, not quite .

Mitsubishi does advertise they are the best backed cars in the world

IMO a manual transmission can be repaired easier than auto and in a pinch be jammed into gear to limp you into town.

It's a world of compromise. I would choose a platform you feel most comfortable with working on and repairing trail side.

 

[dylanblada]

I know the Mitsus are pretty respected in the Middle East too. It sounds like you would still put the LC above all. That seems to be the consensus, which is cool. I definitely would be cool with a rig like yours with the TDI.

As far as the transmission goes, its all about compromises like you said. In most cases I would take an automatic for easier driving over the course of the 25,000+ mile trip as well as for better results off road in sand and mud. These reasons are more important because we are both stick shift n00bs and you can't get a manual LC80 or 100 in the US anyway (Tacoma and a few others, maybe). Plus, like the engine, if the maintenance is done and the trans is not abused, it should easily last for the trip with no problems. If I was driving a Dodge, I wouldn't expect that. I will also investigate the need/cost, complexity of adding a trans cooler.

Tom Shepperd recommends an auto for his Sahara trips and that's as good a reason as any IMHO. Last I heard, was still driving his G-Wagon around and loving it. An diesel LWB G-Wagon would be another top choice for me, but they are hard to come by and when they do pop up they are usually a bit out of my price range, kinda like all these refurb'd Defender 110s that have been showing up on here and eBay. No doubt cool, but not worth $40-$60k to me.

 

[78Bronco]

The LC80 is better in many aspects than the Montero/Pajero platform.

Full floating rear axle, solid front axle, it's WAY roomier inside, can be had with front and rear lockers from factory, better aftermarket support, motor transplant to diesel is easier. One thing that does suck on the LC80 is the exhaust routing from the factory. It's like they thought of it after the rest of the truck was built. I made a pair of sliders for one and it was a BIOTCH.

The primary reasons for me buying the pajero was it has 2wd, 4hi, 4hi LOCK and 4lo LOCK and was $5-6000 less than the toyota counterpart. :smiley_drive: