More great points. I see the best of all these disciplines and am looking forward to more Expo type adventures with my family. Don't get me wrong, I've seen my share of $100k Jeep JK mall cruisers that have never been off-road, no rock rash and the owners couldn't really tell you how to put it in 4WD. That's my real comparison and sarcasm. Meaning the guy driving the Earth Roamer isn't really the Pure Expo guy compared to a lot of you that actually live the lifestyle. Is that fair?
Let's discuss offroad adventure and "Gucci" vehicles
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DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
As noted in some previous posts, 193 miles is not survival; it is a local trip. A few hundred kilometers of this comes closer to survival:
And it's not always dry:
Sometimes you can't just change it; you have to dismount and repair it:
None of this is to say that the Rubicon isn't fun, but it is not "overlanding."
I can't speak for Earthroamer owners, but I would note that Bill Swails built Earthroamer specifically to have a vehicle that would let him spend extended periods of time in the back country getting pictures.
I have spent some forty years freezing or baking my tail in the bush, so now I own this:
And it does have a ton of off road goodies on it and goes quite nicely, subject, of course to the limitation of size and weight. (And yes, it already has desert pin striping.)
But none of this means that this is the right vehicle for you or that you have to want to go where I do. Build/drive the vehicle that best meets your needs.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Posers. So...what? Posing is not a worthy hobby or endeavor? It's their money to do with as they please. Is it really so different than the guy who builds a full-on pre-runner, takes it out to the desert and redlines it once or twice a month - and the rest of the time it's nothing more than a daily driver with goofy looking fenders?
I've hauled *** flat out down "The Old Road" in Baja behind the wheel a full-race Class 5 Baja Bug. I see a pre-runner on the street, I'm thinking there's more than a bit of posing going on there.
But I don't *care* what the other guy does. It's his money, it's his time. It's his hobby. Whatever floats his boat. Not going to waste my time worrying about it.
Probably not fair.
Someone spends that kind of money, they probably intend to actually use the thing. Surprising how many pics I've seen of ERs with street tires. Not everyone who buys one intends to wheel it. Some just want a tough, well-built RV.
And a guy who builds his own ExPo truck...oh yea, he's planning to use that sucker.
Dake21
Adventurer
If I could like this comment ten thousands time I would do it. I've done a lot of trails around where I live with a stock grand vitara and never had a problem getting around, except when some guys felt like they need a 6 inch lift on their trucks with 40+ inch tire and destroy the trail to justify why they need the rig they have. Funny thing is, they manage to break their daily driver when I don't.
Diplostrat, great Picts and definitely looks challenging in that rig. That's Expo. I agree, most people building their rigs are Expo purists. I looked at the Tiger because We already have a Dodge 3500 as the platform. However, it's not really designed for offroad travel. We are really leaning on setting up the Dodge to run 42" Iroks, bypasses, Raceline beadlocks, Air Lockers, Atlas T-Case, skids, hydro assist steering and an XP pop up for low center of gravity. If we go that route, I will do the build on here and document it on the Rubicon trail this summer. Not that it's that tough, but it would be pretty difficult in a full size 4 door Expo truck. When I get to that point and someone on here is really interested and would like to check off the Rubicon on their bucket list, feel free to pm me. As we live 30min from the trail and it would be an EZ shakedown.As noted in some previous posts, 193 miles is not survival; it is a local trip. A few hundred kilometers of this comes closer to survival:
And it's not always dry:
Sometimes you can't just change it; you have to dismount and repair it:
None of this is to say that the Rubicon isn't fun, but it is not "overlanding."
I can't speak for Earthroamer owners, but I would note that Bill Swails built Earthroamer specifically to have a vehicle that would let him spend extended periods of time in the back country getting pictures.
I have spent some forty years freezing or baking my tail in the bush, so now I own this:
And it does have a ton of off road goodies on it and goes quite nicely, subject, of course to the limitation of size and weight. (And yes, it already has desert pin striping.)
But none of this means that this is the right vehicle for you or that you have to want to go where I do. Build/drive the vehicle that best meets your needs.
On a side note, I spent 3 years in Afghanistan literally living out of a 40k lb MRAP and much prefer a smaller platform and want to build it for hunting in the NW and touring Alaska while still young lol. :ylsmoke:
LocoCoyote
World Citizen
Less than 200 miles with that many mechanical issues....doing something very, very wrong. Do that in some of the more remote parts of the world and you are in for a very bad time....a potentially fatal one at that...
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cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
How to note a new guy to the forum? Everything gets defined as "Expo this... expo that". Expo posers, expo hats, expo camo, expo fridges, expo tires 
. Fwiw, it would be akin to everyone building a rock-crawler calling it a KOH build. Or more precisely calling it a "Pirate build" as ExPo is a place, not a thing
Overland travel, expedition travel, back-country adventures, explorditioning... "ExPo" or whatever you prefer to call it is different. I can understand your want/need to see people use their vehicles to the absolute max of their ability as that is the crux of rock-crawling, rock-racing, desert racing, etc (I too have been involved in all aspects) BUT it's apples and oranges. In my opinion you build an overland setup to have the ability to conquer a situation if/when it were to occur, not to go out of your way to conquer such a route just to be a few miles away from the same place you started that morning.
Frankly I'm glad everyone isn't into exploring the remote regions of the US (particularly the West, yes I'm selfish) as that would certainly remove the allure for me. Just like I'm glad not every dude with a wallet is into desert racing as that too would make it as exciting as NASCAR.
. Fwiw, it would be akin to everyone building a rock-crawler calling it a KOH build. Or more precisely calling it a "Pirate build" as ExPo is a place, not a thing Overland travel, expedition travel, back-country adventures, explorditioning... "ExPo" or whatever you prefer to call it is different. I can understand your want/need to see people use their vehicles to the absolute max of their ability as that is the crux of rock-crawling, rock-racing, desert racing, etc (I too have been involved in all aspects) BUT it's apples and oranges. In my opinion you build an overland setup to have the ability to conquer a situation if/when it were to occur, not to go out of your way to conquer such a route just to be a few miles away from the same place you started that morning.
Frankly I'm glad everyone isn't into exploring the remote regions of the US (particularly the West, yes I'm selfish) as that would certainly remove the allure for me. Just like I'm glad not every dude with a wallet is into desert racing as that too would make it as exciting as NASCAR.
I've never had those issues out there. However, there all possibilities and if you suffer any of them, you wont make the top 5. That being said, your missing the point. most guys that don't or cannot build their rig, wouldn't begin to know how to fix it. How many guys on this forum that own ER, SM, AC etc could change an axle shaft, Ujoint, serpentine belt etc etc? How many actually even carry a spare driveshaft, axle shaft, hub etc and then how many actually carry the right tools? Don't kid kid yourself, there arn't that many. How many can even tell you the gear sets in their rigs and how many MOG guys actually have ever pulled off a cast portal box because it cracked on the trail? Ask me how I know? How many carry an on board welder and can actually weld a broken tie rod? My point is, not many and most are extremely un prepared. If 75% of these guys broke down off road, my guess is that they are walking. It's no different than the Jeep guy who took his wallet to a shop and had it built and has no idea how to recover it. I'm not saying that I have all the answers. However, I have talked to a lot of the company's reps that I mentioned and have talked to a lot of the owners of them. And neither can tell you that much info about their rig. Sure, they can tell you fuel capacity, BTU heat, vehicle ratings etc. However, ask them what size ring gear is in the axle and its RCA dog stare. Trust me, we had originally set out to find the perfect vehicle for our family and was planning on buying a turn key rig. However, we quickly realized the limitations and lack of experience by both the builders and the owners. I welcome any of them to take their "EXPO" rig to Johnson Valley, Ca, Rubicon etc and I have had no takers along the way. My rant continued as I pressed the builders for simple explanations of Link material, spring rates, body roll, COG, etc etc and quickly found out, they dont really know. So why would someone go that far into the elements with that much confidence into one of these trucks, unless you really were never planning on putting it thru that much punishment?
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
Right, and if I invite Jimmy's and Trent Fab to drive one of their turn key rock-crawlers from SLC to Ushuaia how many of them will be takers
I'm surprised to hear the lack of product knowledge you describe. I've met many of these companies, toured factories and dealt with some on parts in the past. I think you're expecting too much of a sales person imo. I mean you're apparently a fan of the ARB Air Locker (me too!), would you be turned off it you called ARB and spoke with a customer service rep or sales person that didn't know what the material specs are on the side gear thrust washer of an RD167? I wouldn't, rather I would trust that they are a reputable company and have done their due diligence behind the scenes to make a product that works.
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craig333
Expedition Leader
Why would I want to take my truck to Johnson Valley or even over the Rubicon? Thats not what its for. I have a Jeep for that stuff. Also, my preferences have changed. I'd rather explore historical trails, scenic areas and such. I do suppose though that my FWC isn't exactly what you meant by "gucci". Don't get me wrong, if I had your budget I'd do some of the stuff you're planning on. Not having the most capable truck means I have to be more careful about what I do. I am glad my tires don't weigh four hundred pounds as I'm not a big guy.
P.S. If you're gonna be sitting on 40's you might want to bring a chainsaw along.
No reason you can't have the best of both worlds either.
P.S. If you're gonna be sitting on 40's you might want to bring a chainsaw along.
No reason you can't have the best of both worlds either.
The difference is clear. Randy and Derrick Trent could tell every square inch of those rigs and could out build and out fabricate all of them in there sleep. Not to mention, build a better rig that will do the same thing. You are comparing an OEM manufacturer to a Nascar, a mini van to a Corvette! Again, show me the owner that has a clue on how to change his broken axle shaft or knows what a 300m shaft is. Better yet, tell me right now what size Ujoints are in your axles and drive shafts? That's my point, unprepared
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
Oh boy, we are going to size things up eh? You'll fit right in around here lol.
36030's in my SWB/MWB Cruisers and rear of 100, 35031's in my 100 Series front... Our race car runs the 60070's. Toyota stuff, I've sold/installed a few (thousand) of them
Alas, I'm woefully unprepared. I best quit traveling. Do you teach classes
Edit: It's all beside the point. I meet global travelers quite regularly in my travels... they don't need to know the size of their u-joints, hell some can't even nerd out about the size of the ring gear on their 8" HP front axle BUT they are out doing, not talking about it and not staying home until they have the part numbers memorized. The vehicle is merely a medium to the adventure that is overlanding... not the entire aspect.
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craig333
Expedition Leader
I could tell you on my Jeep. I know which wrench to grab before I exit the vehicle. Can't do that on the truck but you know what? I don't need to. I'm not racing or competing. Nor do I believe thats a requirement for most people. If I were doing a true multi month expedition I'd be damn sure my team had a good mechanic along.
I'm quite sure he's been on pbb. More than welcome to come chat with us about your build over on WTW too.
I'm quite sure he's been on pbb. More than welcome to come chat with us about your build over on WTW too.
LocoCoyote
World Citizen
I absolutely disagree..though I will admit I have no what the actual breakdown of mechanical savvy vs no clue mechanically is.....
Being on the road for longer periods tends to make you more knowledgeable about your vehicle and how to fix "the small things". I am not saying that every overlander is a expert mechanic, but they are most likely a cut above your everyday "drive and then take it to the shop" crowd. Often it is necessary to have some knowledge about how to fix your vehicle...no guarantee there will be someone where you are traveling who knows anything about it.
It has been my experience that the kinds of folks who choose to spend their time overlanding tend to be very adaptable and creative...they learn as they go and solve problems as they arrive. It is part of the fun!
As for "take your ring to "fill-in-the-blank"": I would take my rig anywhere.......but that does not mean I would tackle the biggest and nastiest obstacles that place has to offer. I would seek a better, less risky way around it. As a overlander, I rely on my vehicle (which is just a tool when push comes to shove) and as such will not take undue risk just to say "I did it".
Quoting all the jargon and talking 4x4 shop is all well and good....but not knowing the specs of your u-joint or the link material....whatever.... doesn't mean you don't know how to swap it out if it breaks. Overlanding is about traveling...going further.... not a mini quiz show called "quote your specs!"
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