Let's discuss offroad adventure and "Gucci" vehicles
- Thread starter Run dog
- Start date
Robert Bills
Explorer
You may be right. The OP joined in late November 2011. He has posted 15 times in three years, the majority of them in this thread. Must be a boring holiday season in mommy's basement.
This thread went sideways due to a lot of people getting butt hurt. It was never about the Jeep guys, trailer pop up camper guys etc as that is more my direction. Somehow we got onto being able to sustain off road, talking about KOH and non existent recovery etc. Somehow, Pirate4x4 gets thrown out there which I have same board name and over 4,000 posts in tech and competition threads (go look). It was more about trying to figure out and understand the design and use for some of the big EXPO rigs. Then somehow became a bash on off road survivability and me talking thru my *** from my mothers basement lol. Really, go to Pirate and you'll figure it out real quick. as far as part #'s etc, thats from 15 years of competing and enjoying the out doors. Trust me, it just happens when you build those types of rigs. I probably am guilty of over thinking the EXPO thing and it is over marketed. Anyway, I appreciate all of your passion and welcoming me to your board lol. I am going to build my own rig to go from mild to wild and will provide tech feedback as I get closer. And no, I will not be racing KOH this year as I sold my car a few months ago on Pirate (go look). The only off road rigs I have left is a BMW GS 800, 72 FJ 55 and an over built 87 4Runner. That's why I'm looking to build my 2008 Dodge 3500.
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NikonRon
Adventurer
Please, don't waste our time or yours. Not interested.
Robert Bills
Explorer
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Well yea...but you also came off as being judgmental - such as classifying who is and isn't "real expo" (see your comment about ER owners not being "pure" - I mean...seriously...).
So don't be surprised that some people got offended.
Not me, but like I said, I don't actually give a crap what other people do.
And I'm happiest when they treat me the same.
DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
Be Gentle
Exactly whose tail was getting hurt? Methinks you missed the point; it is your posts that have appeared to be ignorant and ill informed.
We will happily grant you lots of experience with off road racing and related exercises, but to assume that that gives you any credibility in the realm of overlanding is simply silly. Worse, if you will read the posts in this thread, you will quickly figure out that many here have racing and building experience equal to or greater than yours. (Not, I hasten to add, me, but I will confess to having done my bit to keep ******** Cepek, Lonnie Woods, and Vic Hickey in business over the years. Most recently my $$ has gone to Fox and Cognito.) The point is that we are not on Pirate or IH8Mudd or other fora precisely because our interest is in the particular challenges of overlanding as opposed to off road racing. Some of us are even active on RV nets. (Gasp!) And trust me, the RV crew think we're nuts; "Why do you want 4x4?"
As far as posers go, thank the Lord for all the folks who buy Jeeps, Corvettes, Tahoes, etc. to go to the mall. Without them pushing up the volume, we could never afford to buy the base vehicles for our Gucci expo rigs. (To say nothing of the lift kits, air bags, etc.)
Some of your posts remind me a bit of a long thread on RV.net. A gentleman went on at great length as to how a Tiger was not a real off road vehicle. I was reminded of this:
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."
-- Internet Chinese Proverb
Exactly whose tail was getting hurt? Methinks you missed the point; it is your posts that have appeared to be ignorant and ill informed.
We will happily grant you lots of experience with off road racing and related exercises, but to assume that that gives you any credibility in the realm of overlanding is simply silly. Worse, if you will read the posts in this thread, you will quickly figure out that many here have racing and building experience equal to or greater than yours. (Not, I hasten to add, me, but I will confess to having done my bit to keep ******** Cepek, Lonnie Woods, and Vic Hickey in business over the years. Most recently my $$ has gone to Fox and Cognito.) The point is that we are not on Pirate or IH8Mudd or other fora precisely because our interest is in the particular challenges of overlanding as opposed to off road racing. Some of us are even active on RV nets. (Gasp!) And trust me, the RV crew think we're nuts; "Why do you want 4x4?"
As far as posers go, thank the Lord for all the folks who buy Jeeps, Corvettes, Tahoes, etc. to go to the mall. Without them pushing up the volume, we could never afford to buy the base vehicles for our Gucci expo rigs. (To say nothing of the lift kits, air bags, etc.)
Some of your posts remind me a bit of a long thread on RV.net. A gentleman went on at great length as to how a Tiger was not a real off road vehicle. I was reminded of this:
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."
-- Internet Chinese Proverb
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as has been mentioned, I think you've missed the point of ExPo....the 4wd stuff isnt the fun part, its the journey and its the stuff at point A, point B, point C, point D....the 4wd stuff is just something that kind of gets in the way. Don't get me wrong it can be fun but can also end up being a costly mistake. Thats why, while a lot of rigs have a lot of 4wd goodies generally its best to avoid the obstacle if you can. 4wd isnt the focus, its how are you going to sustain yourself in whatever vehicle you choose. the question becomes, how far out there is your destination, how far out can you handle. Lets see if I can put this in terms you would relate to....
As a service member who has also lived for days out of an MRAP a few times(a collection of probably the worst few days of my life) Imagine this. You're in AFG (imagine you're a local so no Taliban) and have to drive from one side to the other and you can't take HWY 1.....oh btw you can only take one vehicle. so now you have a lot to think about, how far is that? how much fuel will that require? how far between stops? do I want to be comfortable.....at all. one more thing, you're paying for the whole thing out of pocket. So now, would you drive over the more hardcore stuff burning more fuel, risking breaking your equipment? or would you take some of the well worn paths and trails. would you bring a spare half shaft, 3 spare tires, a couple of buddies to help recover and fix things or would you take more food, water and fuel...some people have more means than others which generally dictates the answer to those choices. most people can't afford to get stuck at point A, point B, point C and generally just don't want to, recovery generally isn't a lot of fun.
Thats more of the idea of expo, in my mind anyway. Do I do this on a regular basis? no, these days I hardly go camping. But given the chance(2 weeks of x-mas leave or a 4 day weekend) I generally like to drive to somewhere cool. I also like working on my truck, so it gives me two hobbies really....
Edit: Similar example I'm on Xmas leave right now, I'm burning days waiting for my rear bumper which holds my spare tire. I was planning on doing Baja with a group but don't really want to w/o a spare. Packed up ready to go there really isn't room for it inside the vehicle. I would be sleeping inside the truck bed and don't really feel like loading and unloading it every night. I could put it on the roof rack but I'd have to find a way to hoist it up there all by myself. Instead of Baja I'm gonna head down to the Gulf, now do I wait for the carrier or just go...and if I go w/o the carrier wouldn't you say that is going to affect my route?
As a service member who has also lived for days out of an MRAP a few times(a collection of probably the worst few days of my life) Imagine this. You're in AFG (imagine you're a local so no Taliban) and have to drive from one side to the other and you can't take HWY 1.....oh btw you can only take one vehicle. so now you have a lot to think about, how far is that? how much fuel will that require? how far between stops? do I want to be comfortable.....at all. one more thing, you're paying for the whole thing out of pocket. So now, would you drive over the more hardcore stuff burning more fuel, risking breaking your equipment? or would you take some of the well worn paths and trails. would you bring a spare half shaft, 3 spare tires, a couple of buddies to help recover and fix things or would you take more food, water and fuel...some people have more means than others which generally dictates the answer to those choices. most people can't afford to get stuck at point A, point B, point C and generally just don't want to, recovery generally isn't a lot of fun.
Thats more of the idea of expo, in my mind anyway. Do I do this on a regular basis? no, these days I hardly go camping. But given the chance(2 weeks of x-mas leave or a 4 day weekend) I generally like to drive to somewhere cool. I also like working on my truck, so it gives me two hobbies really....
Edit: Similar example I'm on Xmas leave right now, I'm burning days waiting for my rear bumper which holds my spare tire. I was planning on doing Baja with a group but don't really want to w/o a spare. Packed up ready to go there really isn't room for it inside the vehicle. I would be sleeping inside the truck bed and don't really feel like loading and unloading it every night. I could put it on the roof rack but I'd have to find a way to hoist it up there all by myself. Instead of Baja I'm gonna head down to the Gulf, now do I wait for the carrier or just go...and if I go w/o the carrier wouldn't you say that is going to affect my route?
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BigSwede
The Credible Hulk
It's not either/or. There is an entire continuum of approaches to "overlanding". If someone want to buy a fancy rig and pay someone to build it up and pay someone to fix it when it breaks, is there something wrong with that? It won't be me 'cause I can't afford it, but I certainly understand that not everybody considers laying under their rig to be a good use of their time.
pappawheely
Autonomous4X4
If I had cash to burn I'd have an earthroamer too. Seems to be a lot of grinches in this thread. Reminds me of..... Pirate!
pugslyyy
Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
If you were seriously running KOH wouldn't you be on tireballs or something?
ReconH3
Heavy Duty Adventurer
Overlanding is what each individual wants it to be. People need to stop categorizing things. I have never rockrawled in my life but I have done just about every overland/survival/adventure competition under the sun where you have to be 100% self sufficient. Including the renowned Camel Trophy. I built my Hummer precisely with that in mind. My experience has taught that you pick your adventures according to the limitations of you and your vehicle. If you wish to do only dirt roads in your Subaru then that's what you do, but if you really want to explore the most remote areas, then you need something much more prepared. After having crossed some of the most remote areas in the world, I built my rig around all the shortcomings of my previous vehicles. To me it's more important than super comfy roof top tents, fridges or full on field kitchens. I learned this from the Aussies that lived in the Outback, and confirmed in my personal adventures. I like their simple swag setups with a wood fire pit on the ground. To me the priority is in the strength and reliability of my truck when the terrain gets very bad, because that's what I have encountered in my travels. If it survives that, it will survive the easy stuff. My truck is my daily driver and has spent 95% of it's life on regular roads, so that disproves that extreme rigs aren't reliable for long travel. Build it how you like and enjoy the way you want. It's your world and life, live it how you like, and not how others think or say you should.
"Ex Umbris Venimus"
"Ex Umbris Venimus"
Scott H Murray
Adventure Photog
Yes I love my swag and the simplicity
To me people buy vehicles for various reasons, some like to get out and away from the cities and the ratrace that it is. If that means its to a caravan park then so be it, it is their choice. Not ideal for me as I like to get away from everything and enjoy nature. There is nothing better than sitting under a crystal clear night sky and you can see the milkyway so clear and all you can hear is the chirp from crickets or the occasional flutter of a bat into the light from the fire getting the insects which are attracted. We have a lot of Toorak tractors which are basically decked out Landcruisers etc that never leave the city and never get muddy, and then we have a lot of 4wds that get out in the outback getting scratched/muddy/dusty. I do not worry about the city folk as I think they would ruin the serene nature of the bush so they can stay in the concrete jungle.
You buy a vehicle and modify it for your own reasons, I do not judge those that want to be different and if they want to spend lots of $$$ on a vehicle and not see/use its full then that is a great time to wait and look for these decked out vehicles for sale that literally have never been driven off-road.
I think we should stop worrying about what others are doing and just do what we enjoy, sure we can shake our heads in wonder but just move on and do what makes you happy.
Merry Christmas all.
No, we ran ran 160 of 193 miles in 16th place before the Tranny let go last year and had no flats on BFG KRT B's. As a BFG numbered driver, we still couldn't get their version of run flats. Tire balls are definately the future in that sport. however, there aren't a lot out their in production. I'm sure this season will be different
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RECON, agreed and very well said. That was my point for the past 3 pages but kept getting side tracked on a posturing thread lol.
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