Let's Talk About Heating our Trailers.

[dzzz]

This issue usually only starts at 8500 ft with most propane appliances, and it's only at 12,000 ft that it makes the appliances impractical to use.

Changing the size of the orifices jets is the answer if you are going to be using propane for long periods at elevation.

I'm still talking to the manufacturer about different jet sizes and what their recommendations and experiences are using these units at higher elevations.

It seems to be as simple as giving the heater more air in the mix. The trouble is that the engineers then want to start tweaking the mix every thousand feet above 5-6K. For us this would ideally be part of the original design. Espar has finally addressed altitude, but I can't say how effectively.

The other problem diesel heaters have occasionally is carbon build up. This seems to be an issue with heaters that never run at full capacity. Espar unit use for burner levels depending upon the temp or incoming air/water.

The espar unit users benefit from the use of an option muffler. This might be an issue especially in a small trailer since the user is close to the heater. The Espar muffler might fit on this new unit.

For anyone who wants to use diesel or kerosene, the smallest espar air heat can be purchased as a kit for about $1050. The optional muffler is about $150 at discount. Installed, and paying full list for the parts, I would guess $2500. This heater has a lowest output of about 3000btu. Very practical for spring/fall.

I'm a safety guy, but I would have no problem using a catalytic heater in a tent with a little vent opening at the top. That setup will probably have about the same amount of of CO as venting a regular burner near the tent.

 

[lostworldexpedition]

I really like the Heatsource HS2800, but other than the relatively high cost, our main concern is the efficiency at altitude. During the first leg of our trip one of the places we will need the heat most is in the Andes, with an average altitude of 13,000ft I think we may have issues even with our stove (a Partner Steel soon to be purchased from AT).

Then again a good sleeping bag, a kikoy for a scarf and some warm clothes will have to do, but that is not glamping now is it!?

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

That GoLittleGuy thing that does both heat and air seems like a gem at that price point.
Wonder how or if it could be adapted to other units?

Dendy

 

[dzzz]

I really like the Heatsource HS2800, but other than the relatively high cost, our main concern is the efficiency at altitude. During the first leg of our trip one of the places we will need the heat most is in the Andes, with an average altitude of 13,000ft I think we may have issues even with our stove (a Partner Steel soon to be purchased from AT).

Then again a good sleeping bag, a kikoy for a scarf and some warm clothes will have to do, but that is not glamping now is it!?

I doubt you'll be comfortable spending the night at 13000. Cooking isn't too fun either. Unless you find a lot of something to chew.

Edit: The Heatsource HS2800 may be the same unit.

 

[Martyn]

I Talked to the Heatsource manufacturer about the elevation issue and got some good information.

The units exported to North America are jetted to work up to 10,000 ft. They also adjust the gap at the igniter to work up to the same elevation.

Above 10,000 ft the units work but at a less efficient level. Propane as an energy source starts to get tested at elevations above 10,000 ft. I think for the majority of us sea level to 10,000 ft is the range we camp at.

 

[lostworldexpedition]

Thanks for looking into it Martyn. The roads in the Andes are not as high as the height of the peaks, but they do get pretty high in some places... I guess there is always coca leaf for chewing and kikoys to keep me warm (if I wear enough of them layered).
I may just boil water in the Kelly Kettle and fill up a couple of bags...

That should keep us warm for all of 1 hour...

 

[RoyP]

Any updates to this thread? I'd like more instalation and use details re: heating a rtt. I gather the Heatsource unit has to be installed in a box of some sort, the vented out, and also a duct run to the tent.. (is there a return duct? probably not What is the best set up to power the fan> I was thinking of creating a pod to contain the heat source unit, a car battery, and even the propane tank. It could be an alluminum underbody box, say 24w x 18 high x 18 deep. The box could be mounted on the usual trailer, or in my case (tent on car roof, no trairler) the metal box/mech ped could go on a rear bumper mounted cargo carrier rack, with the duct running sraight up to the tent opening at the hinge point.

Would love to know what other people are doing...

 

[saburai]

RTT for me too!

I'm looking into ways to heat an Autohome Extreme...

 

[RoyP]

What have you figured our so far?

 

[spressomon]

There are a few very good heaters on the market. One of them is the Webasto diesel catalytic heater we have in our KK. Unfortunately all the best solutions cost a fair amount of $$$ including the Webasto.

There are a few used Espar diesel catalytic heaters, which are nearly identical to the Webasto (or visa versa), showing up on eBay. A friend of mine, Ali, bought one of these and seems to be pretty happy with it. Apparently at or around 10-years of age/x hours of use the trucking industry recommends replacement/upgrade to a new unit due to the supposed eventual risk of carbon monoxide getting mixed into the fresh air circuit. That, apparently, is why we are starting to see some used units for sale.

But aside from all that we really love our little Webasto. It just sips, literally, diesel: Very, very efficient.

 

[matt s]

Throwing out a couple of brain storm ideas here.

First one, the water bottle with hot water trick does in fact work. I have slept in a good bag (-10F rating, I don't buy lesser bags for use up here) with a heated nalgene bottle and it was warm for hours, in fact still has some heat left in the morning. Water holds heat better than you might expect. This was at about 20F and sleeping on the snow. The other real trick is to eat really well. Calories count, in a good way.

But my real idea is using one of those electric radiant heat mats for installation in bathrooms or other small square footage areas (roof top tent anyone?) I realize there would have to be some mods to make it 12volt or use an inverter, but with the power setups many of you have I would bet you could run one of these overnight without issue and recharge during your run the next day.

I have seen plenty in the way 12v heated blankets. Just surf some of the trucker supply websites they carry all sorts of great 12volt things. It makes sense, trucker have been doing the overland camping thing for a long time.

All that said, a true indirect fired heater (like a toyo stove for a tent) at a good price point would be awesome.

My 2 cents. Keep the good ideas rolling.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I had had an idea to make a heater unit using a couple of heat exchangers. Basically, your heat source would blow through one, and heat up coolant in a circuit. The coolant would be pumped up to another heat exchanger up in the tent, which would have a fan blowing through it. It would be slightly complicated, but there would be zero carbon monoxide risk.

 

[HenryJ]

... my real idea is using one of those electric radiant heat mats for installation in bathrooms or other small square footage areas ...have seen plenty in the way 12v heated blankets. Just surf some of the trucker supply websites they carry all sorts of great 12volt things. It makes sense, trucker have been doing the overland camping thing for a long time...

That is my plan should I need heat in my RTT.
http://www.electrowarmth.com/fleet.php

I bought one of the 120V for home:
http://www.electrowarmth.com/fitted_bedwarmers.php

It is a wonderful way to sleep! Makes much more sense to have the heat under you where you need it.

 

[Big Bear]

That is my plan should I need heat in my RTT.
http://www.electrowarmth.com/fleet.php

Wow this looks like a great option that I think I will be trying in my Autohome Columbia.
:wings:

 

[matt s]

Henry that is sweet and exactly what I was thinking of.