Lets talk heaters

[CoExplorer]

I have done a fair amount of research both inside and outside this forum, but am having a hard time finding good information for my application, so I thought I would reach out to the most knowledgable community I know of.

I am in the build and planning stage for a Pan American highway trip. Looking to do Alaska to Ushuaia. I am building my Tundra for the trip and have a OVRLND camper on order. I will insulate the camper and truck bed, as well as do a full buildout (Electrical, simple pressurized water, heat, etc.)

My current issue is that I am having a hard time deciding between a Propex 2800 and an Espar B4 gasoline heater. I am hoping people more knowledgable than me can help me decide.

The heater will need to operate from sea level up to around 14,000 ft, where I travel in CO and for Bolivia/Argentina/Chile. I need a good amount of heat output, due to winter camping in a camper that does not have great heat retention. I would also like to minimize the refill intervals, which puts a limit on propane use in cold conditions.

Do any of you guys have opinions? At first I was leaning towards the Propex, but it will require frequent propane refill's, especially in cold weather, when I plan to be boondocking for days, up to a week. This lead me to the Espar and tapping into my trucks fuel line, but then I found they do not seem to operate reliably over 10,000 ft.

I apologize if this is beating a dead horse. I have been unable to find a comparison and real world experience in these particular circumstances.

Thanks for any help.

 

[IdaSHO]

Food for thought, no mater the fuel source you will loose output at high elevations.
There is simply less oxygen per volume of air.

What you can do is help the furnace maintain the proper air/fuel blend.

For propane, an adjustable regulator to regulate the volume of LP (less) can get you a ways, but 14,000ft is beyond just a regulator.
We run an adjustable regulator and are good to about 10,000. Beyond that we will have sooting issues, and possibly have the pilot fail.

For 14,000, at the very least for LP, you will need to swap out the orifice in the valve to encourage a cleaner blend of air and fuel.

Or perhaps look to a fuel blend of some sort. I know these problems (and temperature) are why essentially all backpacking stoves are IsoButane (a propane-butane blend)

 

[Joe917]

I would avoid propane for the Pan Am. It is not always easy to find and when you do it is often Butane. Butane works great as a fuel at lower elevations, but it will not work in the cold at altitude. You will always find gasoline.

 

[InvertChaos]

Do you really need operability at 14k ft? Also being in CO, it is very rare to want to sleep that high whether from a comfort or a safety standpoint. I always much prefer to be at or below treeline just for wind sake.

 

[Hilldweller]

Dual batteries and a 12v electric blanket?

 

[Ducstrom]

Propane will remain a liquid at -40. Even at temperatures higher than that if consuming the fuel it can drop the temperature in the tank enough to effect the output.
I have no experience with a propane heater like the one you are referring to, so I am not sure of the consumption rate could cause this issue. Just something to consider if you are going very cold places.

 

[CoExplorer]

Food for thought, no mater the fuel source you will loose output at high elevations.
There is simply less oxygen per volume of air.

What you can do is help the furnace maintain the proper air/fuel blend.

For propane, an adjustable regulator to regulate the volume of LP (less) can get you a ways, but 14,000ft is beyond just a regulator.
We run an adjustable regulator and are good to about 10,000. Beyond that we will have sooting issues, and possibly have the pilot fail.

For 14,000, at the very least for LP, you will need to swap out the orifice in the valve to encourage a cleaner blend of air and fuel.

Or perhaps look to a fuel blend of some sort. I know these problems (and temperature) are why essentially all backpacking stoves are IsoButane (a propane-butane blend)

Hmm, thanks for the tip. From what I had read it seemed that propane would be more reliable a the higher elevations. I had not thought about the regulator, but assumed there would be some sort of orifice swap, similar to a backpacking stove.

 

[CoExplorer]

I would avoid propane for the Pan Am. It is not always easy to find and when you do it is often Butane. Butane works great as a fuel at lower elevations, but it will not work in the cold at altitude. You will always find gasoline.

This is a concern of mine, especially since we will be reliant on propane for our stove. I do not want to burn through it too fast when refill points could become scarce.

 

[CoExplorer]

Do you really need operability at 14k ft? Also being in CO, it is very rare to want to sleep that high whether from a comfort or a safety standpoint. I always much prefer to be at or below treeline just for wind sake.

I do routinely sleep over 10K in the winter, and up into the 12's and sometimes 13's in the shoulder seasons and summer. Having traveled in S. America I know that I will sleep at 14+K when traveling there. My wife will be with me on the trip, which will make heat a higher priority that it would usually be for me.

 

[alanymarce]

Assuming that you plan your trip to avoid winter in Alaska/Yukon and Patagonia, the only places where you'll encounter sub-zero temperatures are the Peruvian, Bolivian, and Argentina altiplano. I wouldn't bother with a heater - I'd get a good sleeping bag (or bags if you are more than one person), with silk liners, an extra "technical" blanket, and thermal underwear. These will keep you warm enough down to -10 deg C or so. The lowest temperature we've seen in the altiplano is -14 deg C at around 5000 m / 16,400 ft.

 

[Herbie]

I would avoid propane for the Pan Am. It is not always easy to find

This is nearly an understatement. Every account I've seen or read about trying to run Propane as a fuel on the PanAm indicates that basically every country (or even region) has its own standard for fittings. You either end up carrying 50 lbs of adapters to get their hose to mate to your bottle, or you end up just buying a new bottle in each country.

I like Propane in North America, but that ubiquity and ease goes away south of Mexico. If your vehicle is gasoline, then a gasoline heater is a strong contender - knowing that not every tank of gas is guaranteed to be super clean. Expect to need to clean or refresh the pump/filter/combustion apparatus.

That said, remember than many folks have done the Pan Am with ground tents and sleeping bags.

 

[alanymarce]

PS: I realise the it's simpler to describe a trip from Alaska to Tierra de Fuego as a "Pan Am" trip, however I suggest that OP stays off the Pan-American highway itself as much as possible.

 

[Herbie]

PS: I realise the it's simpler to describe a trip from Alaska to Tierra de Fuego as a "Pan Am" trip, however I suggest that OP stays off the Pan-American highway itself as much as possible.

Perfectly valid travel advice, but I would say that choosing a route like that would make Propane an even worse choice.

 

[CoExplorer]

Assuming that you plan your trip to avoid winter in Alaska/Yukon and Patagonia, the only places where you'll encounter sub-zero temperatures are the Peruvian, Bolivian, and Argentina altiplano. I wouldn't bother with a heater - I'd get a good sleeping bag (or bags if you are more than one person), with silk liners, an extra "technical" blanket, and thermal underwear. These will keep you warm enough down to -10 deg C or so. The lowest temperature we've seen in the altiplano is -14 deg C at around 5000 m / 16,400 ft.

That is what I currently do when sleeping in cold weather. I have done a tent with no heater down to -40, but it is not preferable. Though it is sounding like that will really be the only choice. We do plan to time our trip to be summer in both Alaska and Patagonia, but the Altiplano is my major concern for heat. I have found that even Patagonia is not that cold in should/winter, but the wind is brutal.

We plan on staying off the "Pan Am" for the most part, but as you said, easier to describe the trip that way. Most of the trip will be way off the major routes boondocking on beaches or in the mountains.

This is nearly an understatement. Every account I've seen or read about trying to run Propane as a fuel on the PanAm indicates that basically every country (or even region) has its own standard for fittings. You either end up carrying 50 lbs of adapters to get their hose to mate to your bottle, or you end up just buying a new bottle in each country.

I like Propane in North America, but that ubiquity and ease goes away south of Mexico. If your vehicle is gasoline, then a gasoline heater is a strong contender - knowing that not every tank of gas is guaranteed to be super clean. Expect to need to clean or refresh the pump/filter/combustion apparatus.

That said, remember than many folks have done the Pan Am with ground tents and sleeping bags.

I did not realize it was that much of a challenge to get propane. Makes me re-think my plan for a stove, and lean more toward the gasoline heater. What do you use for a stove?

 

[Herbie]

I did not realize it was that much of a challenge to get propane. Makes me re-think my plan for a stove, and lean more toward the gasoline heater. What do you use for a stove?

For international travel in a gasoline vehicle, I would only choose a coleman stove (pick your needed # of burners), and just use vehicle fuel. A cleaning kit for the generator tube and perhaps the proactive use of fuel injector cleaner would also be advisable.
If I had a diesel vehicle, then I'd be on the fence between still choosing a coleman stove (since gasoline is ubiquitous), or a diesel stove for common fuel usage.

Good references:

Landcruising Adventure: Cooking with Gasoline - Expedition Portal

Coen Wubbles explains why they went with a classic cooker over the more modern alternatives.

expeditionportal.com