Let's talk making great images.

Overland Hadley

on a journey
For instance, it's paintings like these that provided some inspiration for my own work below.

The Group of Seven is great for photographic inspiration. Can be very hard to find proper "Group of Seven" light.

I have drawn a lot of inspiration from Barnett Newman. (His paintings really need to be seen in person, they have amazing 30', 3', 3" viewing layers. This being the different things that make the painting "work" at 30', 3', 3".)
 

Michael Slade

Untitled
14.jpg

Ok, here we go.

I don't like this for a lot of reasons. In order of no importance they are: The composition is completely messy to me. Not Jackson Pollack messy, just messy-messy. Yeah, you might say that there are leading lines and light and dark and it draws your eye around the image, but to what point? To what end? To see some small-ish figures doing hair, kids playing, some laundry hanging...in an abstract scene that makes no sense?

I am so turned off by the composition, or lack thereof that I can't get into any kind of emotional response other than to not want to look at it anymore. It is not based in reality, and it is not the kind of fictional scene that I find appealing. There are photographic elements in the piece which make me wonder why they are there? Is it to portray a sense of reality? If so, then why surround them with completely abstract colors and textures? If the piece is supposed to convey a fabricated reality, then why include the photo-based figures at all? I'm not sure the artist knows which way the piece is supposed to be going. Reality? Fantasy?

The style leaves me completely empty. The lack of a true subject, any kind of coherent composition, any kind of directional lighting, any kind of theme or message that might be there I just don't see it.

I don't teach painting, I am not a painter, so my criticism of it as a painting might be completely off-base. But...I am a photographer, and there are photographic elements in the image. If this was one of my students I would be challenging them very strongly to convince me that there is an actual point to this image and not just a technical exercise to demonstrate a style or technique. It seems very self-indulgent to me on the part of the artist. Look what I can do.

The message is entirely lost for me in the medium. I like it even less now that I've thought about it a while.
 

Overland Hadley

on a journey
Another rather unusual source of inspiration for me are maps. I LOVE looking at paper maps of areas I would like to explore further or areas that I have been to repeatedly. The maps give me ideas of views and alternate routes into and out of a location looking for a different angle. I also love looking at historic maps and see how early explorers treated the land and named places. This will also give me ideas about how the first explorers and cartographers thought about the lake.

Interesting, I have the same feelings about maps.

I just received a large collection of old topographic maps of Canada. The maps are pre-computer, so everything was hand done. Simply amazing work.
 

Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
Ok, here we go.

Awesome Michael. I'm going to sit on your comments for a while and reflect on them. I'm not sure if this emboldens your thoughts or not but here is the artist describing the painting in her words.

Heather Haynes said:
This painting was inspired by a day spent in the village of Kireka - Kamuli Naalya. We had been invited to visit the women of the Women Caring and Counseling Centre (WCCC). This is a charity that supports women with HIV and AIDS.

The women treated us to some of the most beautiful spiritual music I have ever heard. They performed a skit and gave testimonials about how the bed nets provided by Buy-A-Net one year ago, had changed their lives.

We later went on a tour of this village to check up on the homes of the women who had been given the nets. Just making sure they were using them correctly...

There was something magical about this place. The colours were like no other. The walls of the homes were painted with many layers and the wear and weather had softened them to a beautiful patina.

The blues were like tropical oceans. Truly the most beautiful abstract paintings I have ever seen. The windows and doors were decorated with bits of bright fabric and lace. The laundry hung out on clotheslines was witnessed around every corner. They were full of scrubbed clean clothes - bright florals of every colour imaginable.

I could spend a lifetime taking photos, painting and drawing inspiration from this one village.

Although the people were very poor and had very little, they had beauty and such soul, which just oozed out of them and found it's way to every narrow path I walked through that day.
 

Michael Slade

Untitled
Her inspiration for her painting is a beautiful thing. Her description is also a beautiful thing. I am sure she is a wonderful person. I get nothing of her story in her painting. Reading her description after seeing the painting makes me feel even stronger that she didn't tell me much about her experience visually. If she wanted to record it in photographs, she failed. If she wanted to record it in a painting, she did something more than fail, but she didn't succeed.
 

Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
Can be very hard to find proper "Group of Seven" light.

Very! Benefit of being a painter I guess, you can create you own light. I do know the light though, I think it must be unique to our latitude at certain times of year.:) Late summer/fall soft low slung light slipping through the clouds after a storm is what I most closely relate it to.
 

Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
Her inspiration for her painting is a beautiful thing. Her description is also a beautiful thing. I am sure she is a wonderful person. I get nothing of her story in her painting. Reading her description after seeing the painting makes me feel even stronger that she didn't tell me much about her experience visually. If she wanted to record it in photographs, she failed. If she wanted to record it in a painting, she did something more than fail, but she didn't succeed.

While I can certainly understand your point of view and your arguments, for me I find her work, including this one, to hold a lot of raw visual interest. Perhaps her style simply resonates with me because it's a reflection of my own personal feelings towards art and my continuing damnation of all those little things confined by rigid standards. LOL. I think I enjoy her work not because she adheres to a common style or methodology but because she presents something different. Call it fearless, self indulgent, what ever, for me and for some reason it works. That's the beauty of art though isn't it, there is no such thing as right or wrong, just what works for us and what doesn't. I am still considering the points you made however, I'm just not sure if they have influenced my thinking yet. More time is needed for them to sink in I suppose. Regards, I love the commentary.
 

photoman

Explorer
14.jpg

Originally Posted by Heather Haynes
This painting was inspired by a day spent in the village of Kireka - Kamuli Naalya. We had been invited to visit the women of the Women Caring and Counseling Centre (WCCC). This is a charity that supports women with HIV and AIDS.

The women treated us to some of the most beautiful spiritual music I have ever heard. They performed a skit and gave testimonials about how the bed nets provided by Buy-A-Net one year ago, had changed their lives.

We later went on a tour of this village to check up on the homes of the women who had been given the nets. Just making sure they were using them correctly...

There was something magical about this place. The colours were like no other. The walls of the homes were painted with many layers and the wear and weather had softened them to a beautiful patina.

The blues were like tropical oceans. Truly the most beautiful abstract paintings I have ever seen. The windows and doors were decorated with bits of bright fabric and lace. The laundry hung out on clotheslines was witnessed around every corner. They were full of scrubbed clean clothes - bright florals of every colour imaginable.

I could spend a lifetime taking photos, painting and drawing inspiration from this one village.

Although the people were very poor and had very little, they had beauty and such soul, which just oozed out of them and found it's way to every narrow path I walked through that day.

When the image was first posted I was a bit intrigued with it appearing to be mixed media and the brush strokes used in the painting. After reading the artists comments on the image, I believe she failed miserably to convey her feelings to a wider audience. Her story is one of beauty, bright colors, and bright people- however this piece of art, for me anyways, provides the exact opposite vision.

My first thoughts on this image was the current situation in Haiti. The abstract shapes, hard angles, and strong contrasts of colors provides a subconscious feeling of strife, struggle, and oppression. The images can also be viewed in that context with a child standing alone, women doing hair on a step or rubble, two other kids standing on a rickety old chair or junk, and clothes being hung to dry between crumbling buildings. The red is blood red, blotted and dripping as blood would run down a wall. The section between and above the lone child and the two women is abstract and purposely scuffed by the artist which is similar to the walls and paint of buildings crumbling around the people.

If she wanted to portray this place as one of beauty and soul she should have used smooth flowing lines, blended transitions of colors, and warm colors. This is where science does impact art- shapes, angles, and colors have an immediate impact on peoples subconscious. An artist should be aware of this and use it to convey the intended message.

The image is a long ways from telling the story the artist described in here written word. This image will not inflict the desire of most people to want to visit or spend time in this village.
 

Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
Fasinating, my gut reaction is quite different. I get a feeling of energy and life. Anyway enough with that picture. She seems to be doing just fine without us having sold out a number of solo exibits in Toronto, not to mention having her work featured on Parliament Hill, in Ottawa.

Right now I'm on the hunt for some reading on this Barnett Newman fellow. Looks like he's kinda a big deal, in the vein of Marc Rothko if you will.
 

Michael Slade

Untitled
Fasinating, my gut reaction is quite different. I get a feeling of energy and life. Anyway enough with that picture. She seems to be doing just fine without us having sold out a number of solo exibits in Toronto, not to mention having her work featured on Parliament Hill, in Ottawa.

Be careful when you equate exhibitions and sales to being able to make strong art. Not to take anything away from her commercial success as an artist, but oftentimes the reasons why an artist gets exhibitions and makes sales has nothing to do with their talent.

Enough talk about that painting. Here is a group of images I keep coming back to again and again. These are Chromolithographs made by Thomas Moran. Moran, as some may know, was the artist that went on the Ferdinand Hayden Geological Survey of 1871. Moran was the complete package. He was an outdoorsman, an excellent horseman and the reason he was asked to accompany Hayden on the expedition is because of his skill as an artist and painter. Hayden saw in Moran a person who could not only document visually the world they would be exploring, but also saw that he was good around other men, could hold his own and more around a campsite and was good in a knife-fight. Moran, and the photographer William Henry Jackson (of Civil War fame...), often went out together for days at a time alone to photograph and sketch.

Quite often Moran would paint and sketch from the back of his horse, filling in colors with numbers to be painted in at a later time. Moran would rely on the compositional accuracy of Jackson's photographs for his later large-scale paintings. Jackson's photographs are invaluable for proving that these worlds existed to a very doubting public, but Moran's paintings would become the definitive record of the area. Moran also completed during forty days an amazing body of work for which he would draw from for the rest of his life. Moran's paintings would also become some of the last mass-produced color reproductions for public consumption in a portfolio of Chromolithographs published in Boston by the finest publisher of Chromos at the time, Louis Prang.

Moran had it all. The outdoor savvy to not only get around, but be incredibly productive while in the field...and most importantly he had the ability to see with tremendous clarity and not too much over-editorializing the scene placed in front of him. He did say: "I place no value upon literal transcripts from Nature. My general scope is not realistic; all my tendencies are toward idealization....Topography in art is valueless." That being said, by looking at the record left by Jackson and comparing them to the paintings that are based on those images, you can see that he does not take too much creative license with the views. His treatment of light and color and space puts him at the top of the list of people I look at that have documented the west. Moran went on several different surveys visiting the hottest spots in the west. The places he visited and painted would put us all into the 'well traveled' category for those who have been smitten with wanderlust.

I don't go out visiting places to make the same compositions Moran does, but through my reading of his text and visual studying of his paintings and drawings I go out to those wide-open spaces with a heightened awareness of what worked for him, and what can potentially work for me. I don't go out to recreate his images, but I do go out to try to capture the same feeling he did in my own work.

There is a lot of information about Moran on-line, but I'll give you a link to a small page that not only features one of his finest Chromos, but just so happens to be of Utah's Great Salt Lake.

Oh yeah, if you are an artist and happen to have a mountain named after you, you're someone that ought to be paid attention to.
 
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Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
Now Michael, you're not suggesting that "good art" lives in some sort of vacuum are you? Does art not also have a social dimension? If it resonates it resonates.

As for Moran, eh, his style ain't for me as I see just another artist following the same old European models that had been laid down before him. Sure his work has a very,...shall we say poetic atmosphere, but it lacks the hard rugged feel of a truely untamed land, at least for me. It almost looks as though he is attempting to create peaceful images of wild landscapes so not to frighten away new settlers. I do find them to be beautiful images of the landscape, but I prefer images of wild places be left with some of that raw unbridaled energy they contain. With Moran's work I get an impression of quiet domesticated landscapes even though I know they exist in terms that are quite the contrary.

Let me also add that I hope others are not looking at this as simply two guys going back and forth attempting to create thier own canons, lobbying with the work of others. No, we're just discussing what works for us and trying to find understanding as to how and why. If it's too much, and others want this thread to go in a different direction then by all means take it that way. This thread is for everyone.

Cheers
 
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