Lite weight campers & RVs. Consumers/customers need to push manufacturers....

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
This unit could hit 2000 lbs wet easily.

Ill hold you to that :sombrero:

Seriously, I know the numbers. I've done this myself.

Im not saying its impossible, and you are on the right track.

What Im saying is that it simply isnt easy.



As for your numbers.... here is a go based upon my build...

35 gallon fresh tank + water 325lbs
Assuming you are going with black and grey tanks?? estimate 30lbs
battery bank (assumed two 6V deep cycles) 130lbs
solar ( I went rigid panels instead of film for efficiency
and ability to tilt when dry camped) 50lbs
Inverter ( I dont have one, but estimate) 30lbs
heat source & stove (LP gravity furnace, LP range + LP TANK) 50lbs
30x30 wet bath (dont have either, estimate) 35lbs
Fridge (Im running a WAECO CR1065) 65lbs


So your at an estimated 700 lbs already, just for components and water.

You said your previous weight was also without windows or doors?
Not sure what your running, I have dual pane insulated tip-outs. So add what, another 75 + lbs?

How about water lines, gas lines, electrical wires/fuse panel, lights, sink counter, table, cupboards, etc, etc, etc.....
And what about all the junk you plan on putting in the cabinets? Thats figured in your wet weight as well...
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
FYI, mine came in at 1900lbs dry.

It is also 10' long with a LARGE cabover.

100% loaded and wet for extended trips it sits just shy of 3k lbs.

Still, MUCH lighter that a current 4-season production model offered by anyone.

chassis238.jpg
 

Jeep

Supporting Sponsor: Overland Explorer Expedition V
I'll just have to use those outgassing, inferior, condensing, weak, expensive, clinical composites instead of aluminum :)

Your camper looks great, I love the lines.
 

UHAULER

Explorer
Ill hold you to that :sombrero:

Seriously, I know the numbers. I've done this myself.

Im not saying its impossible, and you are on the right track.

What Im saying is that it simply isnt easy.



As for your numbers.... here is a go based upon my build...

35 gallon fresh tank + water 325lbs
Assuming you are going with black and grey tanks?? estimate 30lbs
battery bank (assumed two 6V deep cycles) 130lbs
solar ( I went rigid panels instead of film for efficiency
and ability to tilt when dry camped) 50lbs
Inverter ( I dont have one, but estimate) 30lbs
heat source & stove (LP gravity furnace, LP range + LP TANK) 50lbs
30x30 wet bath (dont have either, estimate) 35lbs
Fridge (Im running a WAECO CR1065) 65lbs


So your at an estimated 700 lbs already, just for components and water.

You said your previous weight was also without windows or doors?
Not sure what your running, I have dual pane insulated tip-outs. So add what, another 75 + lbs?

How about water lines, gas lines, electrical wires/fuse panel, lights, sink counter, table, cupboards, etc, etc, etc.....
And what about all the junk you plan on putting in the cabinets? Thats figured in your wet weight as well...

You question a guy about carrying a small generator, yet in your specs you carry 130# of battery and 50# of solar panels.Also, some people like to park in the shade.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
You question a guy about carrying a small generator, yet in your specs you carry 130# of battery and 50# of solar panels.Also, some people like to park in the shade.

The batteries are a requirement for a legitimate fridge, regardless of how you recharge them.

With that said, the 50# in solar is better and lighter that any generator for battery bank replenishment.



Some may argue that they can "get away" with less battery, but those folks tend to fall into the weekend warrior type.

And the weekend warrior type doesnt need to recharge the batteries much if any, for a short trip.

Your AH capacity should be determined by both your consumption and ability to recharge.


And some simple math....


The Waeco Fridge I run is pretty efficient, averaging about a 3A draw.

So the fridge alone will draw on average 72 AMPs for every 24 hour period.

Using true deep cycle wet cell batteries and the 50% rule, I need at least 144AH worth of battery. Period.



Now, knowing just how much battery you are using per day will tell you just how much solar you need for a given day, to replenish the previous 24hrs of consumption.

I normally use 6 hours in my calcs, assuming that on average Ill only see 6 hours of good sun a day.

6 hours and 72 amps, that means I need roughly (or at least) 12 amps of solar for 6 hours a day to replenish my consumed 72 amps.
 

Jeep

Supporting Sponsor: Overland Explorer Expedition V
On the subject of light weight, ditch the heavy panels, Go Power Flex series 100 watt panels are light, I don't know if they even weigh 2 pounds. I'd pay a weight penalty for a couple good batteries over a generator, and it works great for us but that is a personal preference too. For some situations a generator is the way to go, I carry a 3000 watt unit in my big truck even though i am usually lending it to somebody else! I'm not too worried about weight in the 650, I'm 6000 pounds under gvw there.
 

Darwin

Explorer
Where are you finding LG panels that weight 16 lbs.? Are you sure that is correct. I am seing around 38 lbs. If that's true, I would to pick some up.
 

boxcar1

boxcar1
Funny you mention minimalist, and speak of saving weight, but you'd rather carry a generator instead of solar?
You also mention catalytic heaters. In a good 4-season, thats the last type of heater you want.
A good 4-season is near air tight, but easy to ventilate to allow air exchange (with regards to humidity)
A catalytic heater will do little more than use up your oxygen and dump CO into your air.

Nowhere did I mention anything with regards to fancy amenities.
Quite the opposite, actually. Hell, I dont even include a water heater in the following list, nor do I a shower....


In my mind, a legitimately sized 4-season pickup camper is at minimum, 8' long with a 48" cabover.

Being a 4-season camper Id like to assume that it isnt for the weekend warrior.

This is Expo-Portal afterall, lats try to stretch that trip longer than overnight, shall we?
Ill assume that the camper must support extended trips (as in months) or even full time.

So, with that said, a "legitimately sized 4-season camper" in my mind MUST include the following:

*Fully insulated with insulated windows and roof hatch for emergency egress
*Efficient sealed burn furnace (no buddy heater here)
*Stove for cooking meals
*Fridge for maintaining perishables on the road
*Properly sized fuel (ex: LP) to supply furnace and stove during extended outings
*Enough space for two+ adults to live INSIDE comfortably, without need to "convert" furniture to accommodate uses
*25+ gallons of fresh water
*Pump of some sort
*Sink and grey water tank
*Chemical or permanent toilet, black tank if permanent
*all tanks insulated from exterior to prevent freezing
*Properly sized house bank to supply low voltage power for fridge and lighting

The generator vs solar is all about weight and power delivery.
Because the tc ( at least mine ) requires very little power to operate I could run without it, but as a true 4 season camper I find the convenience of the generator out ways the added 60 lbs of extra weight. I use the generator more as an in camp power station than to QUICK charge my battery.
If I added solar that would add at least another 60 - 100 lbs of weight and is no where near as versatile as a small quiet generator.
In reality , when needing a charge I generally start my truck. After a few cold days in the bush it's always a good idea to run the engine for a short while anyways.

Now to the heater. I see you overlooked the blue flame unit. ( my first choice ) and what I will run in any tc from here on in.
It's thermostatically controlled, convection and very efficient ( 99.9% ). Emits no CO and requires no outside venting.
As it is surface mounted ( like the cat ) it requires very little space installed. A premium in a TC.
Second choice would be a catalytic.
Advantages to both are, that they draw no electricity, unlike a conventional furnace. Are less than half the weight, and are more efficient over all.
The Catalytic is a tried and tested unit used for years in many TC's with good results .
It's a bit more finicky than the Blue flame, but with proper ventilation and maintenance, works well. Ask any one who truly uses one.
The on demand hot water system I will be using is a convenience , I will admit.
At 10 lbs , and zero LPG or electrical usage except when in use , a convenience worth it's weight in gold. I like not stinking up my camper. An outside shower is a must.

I agree a good sized camper has an 8' floor length . I like a bigger bed mine is 60" wide. 48" seems a bit cramped.
An adequate water supply system to fill the needs of the users. Some require more than others . I take a weekly shower.

Unfortunately my build width only allows for a 16 gal tank and a 17 gal grey water tank.
To remedy this I will carry 2 - 5 gal Gerry cans externally. No the best idea in cold weather but it's all I can do.
When cold I'll have to store them in the hanging locker.

A refrigerator (that requires NO 12 volt power to operate. ) at the very least 4 cubic feet . ( I prefer 6 )
I run an electric pump for the water delivery . Again I like showers. But a hand pump at the sink is a good idea . I have both.

Insulation is a must. And lots of it. That goes without saying.

I disagree however that a good 4 season needs to be an air tight box. As most contractor have learned this is a bad practice. Especially if using composites of any kind.
They tend to outgas undesirable things into the air. I like my tc and my home to breath a bit.

Now to the escape hatch... By the time you get your hatch open , squeeze through it, climb out on the roof and then manage the 10 foot drop to the ground ( all during an emergency ) I would have sprinted out the back door to safety.
I have had escape hatch equipped TC's . They inevitably end up a source of leaks .
I'd trade the hatch for a a good set of air quality sensors and a quality fire extinguishing system.

As far as extended trips idaSHOW. I have traveled from the southern tip of South America to Barrow Alaska using TC's and or off road trailers. I am by definition an expedition traveler.
Can't remember the last time I had full hook ups or had an overnight in a State park. I think your weekend warrior comment should have been kept to your self.... Or maybe I'm taking offence where none was intended....
The camper I am building will first be used on the discovery trail Canada to Mexico.
And then on the Trans Canadian highway. ( wet to east ) Hardly overnight stays.

I like your TC , a cool design. Flat bed's open up a whole new relm of dimensions.....
I thought about that a bunch before I opted for an in bed build. It just didn't pencil out for me.

Weighed mine again yesterday. As it is nearly ready for insulation and skin, I needed a base comparison for the log book. 864lbs dry .
That's with a 20 lb LPG tank , 1 Optima yellow top, my generator , all of the appliances hooked up and running. Only things to add are the fantastic fan ( hasn't arrived yet ), the rear door to the generator storage compartment, the external hot water heater, cushions, mattress and bedding. And the port o potty. All in an 8 ' floored 13'6" over all unit.
I'm pretty sure 1000 - 1100lbs dry target is doable. That normally leaves a bunch of room for gear.
Or in my case Almost none. I'm building for ( what will be ) a heavily modified, Import, gas truck.
The next build.
 
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IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
The generator vs solar is all about weight and power delivery.
Because the tc ( at least mine ) requires very little power to operate I could run without it, but as a true 4 season camper I find the convenience of the generator out ways the added 60 lbs of extra weight. I use the generator more as an in camp power station than to QUICK charge my battery.
If I added solar that would add at least another 60 - 100 lbs of weight and is no where near as versatile as a small quiet generator.
In reality , when needing a charge I generally start my truck. After a few cold days in the bush it's always a good idea to run the engine for a short while anyways.

Probably why we are on different sides of this coin...

Certainly more than one way to slice a cake.

IMO,

generator VS solar is not about power delivery, it is about recharging depleted batteries.

If you are relying upon your truck to recharge, then why bother with the generator at all?

Just run a a large inverter as needed.

My build specs and requirements with regards to 12V are for a 100% self contained, near zero maintenance camper.
No need of support from the vehicle, and no need for ANY noise when dry camped for weeks on end.

A sweet side effect is the ability to not only recharge but maintain the vehicle batteries via the camper solar as well.



Now to the heater. I see you overlooked the blue flame unit. ( my first choice )and what I will run in any tc from here on in . Second choice would be a catalytic.
Advantage is that they draw no electricity, unlike a conventional furnace. Are less than half the weight, and are more efficient. The Blue flame emits no CO.
The Catalytic is a tried and tested unit used for years in many TC's with good results . It's a bit more finicky but with proper ventilation works well. Ask any one who truly uses one.

Uh, didnt overlook anything. The Blue flame is a convection heater.

A refrigerator (that requires no 12 volt power to operate. ) at the very least 4 cubic feet . ( I prefer 6 )

What fridge? Please dont say LP.....

Very inefficient when compared to a modern Danfoss 12VDC unit.

And increases your reliance upon LP considerably.

Not to mention the additional vents that are required (you mentioned leak potential)

12VDC units are 100% vent free.

I disagree however that a good 4 season needs to be an air tight box. As most contractor have learned this is a bad practice. Especially if using composites of any kind.
They tend to outgas undesirable things into the air. I like my tc and my home to breath a bit.

Please do not mis quote.

Nowhere did I say air tight box. What I did say was near air tight, but easy to ventilate

There is a BIG difference.

You want air exchange, regardless of construction techniques and materials.

Can't remember the last time I had full hook ups or had an overnight in a State park. I think your weekend warrior comment should have been kept to your self.... Or maybe I'm taking offence where none was intended....
.

No, no offence intended.

Again, my build constraints are based upon extended dry camping, and little to no maintenance.

For somebody that is living on the road long term/full time, that is starting their vehicle every day, or every other day, a single battery would probably suffice.

but even then, you are taxing that battery and the vehicles charging system to recharge the battery(ies) properly for maximum life.

Under those circumstances, the "weekend warrior" falls into the same energy requirements.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Where are you finding LG panels that weight 16 lbs.? Are you sure that is correct. I am seing around 38 lbs. If that's true, I would to pick some up.

Yep sorry was looking at the wrong specs. After moving 29 of them solo I must have been feeling strong. 36lbs. But look at weight vs watt rating to get a fair comparison.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
A single 310 watt panel at 36lbs wouldnt be bad especially considering the hard panel durability and efficiency.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
The combination of the added efficiency and the ability to tilt as needed outweigh any weight savings IMO.

Ive even considered an extension cord for mine, to allow the panels to be removed and set up remotely, allowing (for example) the camper to stay in the shade, while panels are in the sun.
 

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