Lite weight campers & RVs. Consumers/customers need to push manufacturers....
- Thread starter Freebird
- Start date
calicamper
Expedition Leader
At one point FWC was offering hard sided shell models of their popups. They were probably 700ish in basic trim no real interior beyond a bench and bed.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
More weight for your $$ ? :sombrero:
Seriously, I do not see their prices that out of line, but the weight sure is.
Many of their larger truck campers with slides can BARELY be hauled legally by a 1-ton dually.
Looking at say, an AF 1140
11' floorplan, 17' overall.
dry weight 4,060
wet weight 5,286 :Wow1:
Base price.... $28k
So tell me would you pay such a premium for a similar camper that weighed HALF AS MUCH ?
How about if you were able to contribute substantially to the design/layout and have complete control over the included features of such a camper?
I think many would.
100%
A premium camper at half the weight is worth as much, if not more. My Bigfoot was on a F-450, it's not really an ideal truck to daily drive compared to a single wheel 3/4 ton, but that's what it took to haul everything properly.
An Oliver TC based on their TT construction?......eliminate the weight of the frame, wheels, springs, tongue, etc.
Then gestimate maybe 2/3 to 3/4 the weight of the fiberglass house part since it is smaller sq footage?
I don't know how that would wash out, but if done right it could easily (?) be equivalent or less than my 2000#wet Northern Lite hardside 9.6' ?
All opinion and estimates of course.
Then gestimate maybe 2/3 to 3/4 the weight of the fiberglass house part since it is smaller sq footage?
I don't know how that would wash out, but if done right it could easily (?) be equivalent or less than my 2000#wet Northern Lite hardside 9.6' ?
All opinion and estimates of course.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Free bird, what model is your camper, exactly, what are your tank sizes (LP and H20), and is it still in production?
I really have my doubts that you are actually coming in at 2k or less. But please fill in the blanks.
From where Im sitting slipping in at or less than 2k wet with a legitimately sized 4-season camper, unless built using some sort of "unobtanium", is quite the challenge.
You could certainly do that with just an empty shell, but a completely finished out camper? WET?? I do not see it happening easily.
I really have my doubts that you are actually coming in at 2k or less. But please fill in the blanks.
From where Im sitting slipping in at or less than 2k wet with a legitimately sized 4-season camper, unless built using some sort of "unobtanium", is quite the challenge.
You could certainly do that with just an empty shell, but a completely finished out camper? WET?? I do not see it happening easily.
Darwin
Explorer
I know the weight sticker on my camp says 1985 lbs. I know it is a lot more than that especially with the 24 volt solar panel, and not sure that weight sticker includes the AC. Still not too bad, at least it's not 4000 lbs! I am looking at getting a 1 Ton truck though and it would be nice if I was about 500 lbs lighter. Lots of compromises, I need the hardside TC for work.
boxcar1
boxcar1
I guess that all depends on the interoperation of the words legitimately sized 4 season camper.
If you are describing a slide out, solar powered, flat screen equipped rolling house , I'd have to agree.
If one is happy with the 4 industry essentials: full galley , queen bed , usable dinette, and a basic head. I think it could be just doable.
I'm kind of a minimalist . If I want to watch a movie, my lap top is fine . I carry a small 1000 watt Yamaha genny for auxiliary power. No solar panels.
Demand hot water. blue flame or catalytic heat vs. forced air.
LED lighting etc.
Now due to low energy use you only need 1 deep cycle.
I think it is doable in a full size tc.
My shell comes in a 782 lbs. on Solidworks. It is 8.5' floor, 10' front wall to rear wall, 80" inside height, full queen in the overhead with a little extra room. That weight is without doors and windows, and nothing inside. I am shooting for a sub 2000 pound weight but will likely be a little over. Still, not a bad weight for a fully equipped 10' long camper. FWIW the solar panels I am using weigh about 4 lbs., and if you are already hauling a battery, I'd ditch the generator.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Funny you mention minimalist, and speak of saving weight, but you'd rather carry a generator instead of solar?
You also mention catalytic heaters. In a good 4-season, thats the last type of heater you want.
A good 4-season is near air tight, but easy to ventilate to allow air exchange (with regards to humidity)
A catalytic heater will do little more than use up your oxygen and dump CO into your air.
Nowhere did I mention anything with regards to fancy amenities.
Quite the opposite, actually. Hell, I dont even include a water heater in the following list, nor do I a shower....
In my mind, a legitimately sized 4-season pickup camper is at minimum, 8' long with a 48" cabover.
Being a 4-season camper Id like to assume that it isnt for the weekend warrior.
This is Expo-Portal afterall, lats try to stretch that trip longer than overnight, shall we?
Ill assume that the camper must support extended trips (as in months) or even full time.
So, with that said, a "legitimately sized 4-season camper" in my mind MUST include the following:
*Fully insulated with insulated windows and roof hatch for emergency egress
*Efficient sealed burn furnace (no buddy heater here)
*Stove for cooking meals
*Fridge for maintaining perishables on the road
*Properly sized fuel (ex: LP) to supply furnace and stove during extended outings
*Enough space for two+ adults to live INSIDE comfortably, without need to "convert" furniture to accommodate uses
*25+ gallons of fresh water
*Pump of some sort
*Sink and grey water tank
*Chemical or permanent toilet, black tank if permanent
*all tanks insulated from exterior to prevent freezing
*Properly sized house bank to supply low voltage power for fridge and lighting
*Properly sized solar bank and controller to maintain house bank
calicamper
Expedition Leader
I recall most rv weight plates are the basic before fit out weights. It depends on the builder but the weight plate could be based on weight prior to final fit out of the cabinets and last typical things like fixtures etc. I think the biggest weight add and place for the most weight savings in typical RV trailers is in the cabinets. If they switched to a cored composit panel skinned to look like wood there is probably quite a bit of weight savings to be had.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Yep, you are on track, but as I said, 2000lbs WET is a tough one.
Also, what kind of R-value are you looking at with your wall system?
My 1996 NL camper has a data "plate" (thick tin foil...to save weight? Lol) that indicates the weight of the camper, which is "punched" into the foil. It is an even 2000 lbs, so to me a round number like that indicates an estimate.
DP indicates 36 fresh water plus 10g propane is included in the wet weight. Refrig is 6.0cuft.
It has an aftermarket AC on the roof, so add 80 or so lbs for that. Still, approx total is only as good as the original factory estimate.
It is a RV queen sized E/W CO bed model, with approx 12"H basement with about 9"H access door to that basement that is deep under the walk area within the camper.
No, this model is no longer manufactured. It actually has more storage areas & cubbyholes than the NL new models (we drove to their new factory to see their current offerings, and were balking at the lack of storage offered. Our 10' Alaskan has more! To say nothing of the several mo. wait to get one) which is what convinced us to buy used. Well, actually all that....plus the price difference....lol
Edit/additional
The negative on the camper is that it is TALL, so pushes a bunch of air aside under way. I call it a bow wave.
The positive with the 11'3" height (including AC) is the wife really likes the roominess above the CO bed. She is a bit claustrophobic....
Now y'all have me wondering about actual/true weight :-( . I'll have to weigh it when I have a chance.
DP indicates 36 fresh water plus 10g propane is included in the wet weight. Refrig is 6.0cuft.
It has an aftermarket AC on the roof, so add 80 or so lbs for that. Still, approx total is only as good as the original factory estimate.
It is a RV queen sized E/W CO bed model, with approx 12"H basement with about 9"H access door to that basement that is deep under the walk area within the camper.
No, this model is no longer manufactured. It actually has more storage areas & cubbyholes than the NL new models (we drove to their new factory to see their current offerings, and were balking at the lack of storage offered. Our 10' Alaskan has more! To say nothing of the several mo. wait to get one) which is what convinced us to buy used. Well, actually all that....plus the price difference....lol
Edit/additional
The negative on the camper is that it is TALL, so pushes a bunch of air aside under way. I call it a bow wave.
The positive with the 11'3" height (including AC) is the wife really likes the roominess above the CO bed. She is a bit claustrophobic....
Now y'all have me wondering about actual/true weight :-( . I'll have to weigh it when I have a chance.
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R value is supposed to be approx., 5. I'm going to drop a date logger in, throw it outside, and monitor the fuel consumption. I'm doing that because there are A LOT of r value claims, from pretty much every source and I can't find any data to prove its worth in the application. I like real data, everything else is just a guess. I also have walls that are 2" thick with xps core, as well as floors that are 3 and 4" thick with xps cores which have a higher theoretical R value. I like the PP HC core for the strength of the panel, I like the xps core for the insulation value, but in all reality we use our equipment in a -10 Celsius to +40 Celsius range so the HC wall is more than adequate. We have camped, many times, in far inferior equipment and kept warm, just used more fuel! If I was stuck on camping at -30 I'd go xps, but that's what airplanes and tropical islands, and rental Jeeps are for!
This unit could hit 2000 lbs wet easily. If it were a slide in camper it would weigh even less as there is not nearly the amount of room a flat bottom designed camper has available to stuff things into! Plus if it was a slide in, I'd be guessing we'd limit the length to 8'. I have some pretty stout electrical, double redundant heating, and I didn't scrimp on the interior structure to the degree I could have. Some quick weight calculations and I could basically knock out the weight of the full 35 gallon water tank. I would still have a decent battery, solar, 2500 watt inverter, one heat source, wet bath, stove, fridge, basically everything you need for a serious traveler. I will have an actual weight on mine in approx. 1 week, will be interesting to see where the ancillaries come in at, bolts, nuts, 5 cases of adhesive, wire, connectors, hose, coolant for the hydronic, when you actually build something like this and keep track of the small stuff, it won't be a surprise to discover that stuff could weigh a couple hundred pounds.
It's nice to see this thread deviate back to civil, there is a lot of information and exposure. Jeez the condensation issue.....play with the recirculation button on your dash next time your driving around and see what happens to you car windows! It helps if it's cold or humid!
Cheers,
Mark.