Load D or E tires for expedition M101A1 trailer

[MIhunter]

Recently picked up an older M101A1 from GL and plan on doing a home resto during the long winter. My plans are not to trun it into a full back country rig, but rather and extra place for towing hunting gear cross country and camping trips. Future mods are

Swap mil axle and tires for civ 3500lbs axle and 31in or 33in tire.
Tongue box
Fuel/watercan mounts
rack
lights to 12v LED with side markers
and more

Now these trailers are rated for alot of weight, but I will probably never get close to maxing it out. As I shop for tires and rims, i am toorn on wether to get D range tire or E range tires for the less flex in the side walls. I am currently looking at BFG AT's to fit the bill, but don't know if I need to spend the extra cash on E range tires. These will be run on crager soft 8 black steel rims.

Another thing I am throwing around is to go with electric brakes or no brakes.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

If it was me, I would go for the E load rating, but D rated should be more than fine.

 

[Mr. Leary]

I doubt it. D rated will work just fine unless you are planning to really load that sucker down regularly.

 

[tdesanto]

I use BFG A/T D rated 33" tires on my trailer. It weighs, loaded, approx 2200 lbs. Hope that helps.

 

[The Adam Blaster]

Just for reference:
C = 6 ply
D = 8 ply
E= 10 ply

You'll be totally fine with the D-rated tires, to be honest you would be fine with C-rated tires as well.
The average passenger car tire can hold approx. 1500-1600 pounds. Passenger tires are essentially a 4-ply tire.
My 31" Duratracs 6 ply (my winter tires) are rated at ~ 2270 pounds.
The same tire in a 33" height, still 6-ply is rated for 2205 pounds.
So for the pair of tires you're looking at a total load rating of around 4500 pounds. And that's just for some 6-ply tires.

Bump up to a 10-ply again in the Duratrac 285/75R16 and you're looking at a tire that is rated at 3750 pounds each. Quick math says that's 7500 pounds for the pair.

Go to a 285/70R17 in the same tire but an 8 ply, you're looking at 3195 pounds each, almost 6400 pounds for the pair.

So, having said all of that, you can clearly see that all of the above tires will be easily able to handle a trailer that will normally be pulled around weighing in the ~ 3500 pound range.
The 8 and 10 ply tires are very close in their construction, and the weight ratings are both pretty high for your application, the only benefit I could really see with using one of these heavier tires over a 6 ply would be the fact that they do have more dense material in their construction, and they "may" provide a bit more puncture and cut resistance. You get to decide is forking over a bunch more $$$ is actually worth that or not.

The ratings I've quoted are right from Goodyear's 2010 data book, and other manufacturer's weight ratings will be similar for the same size and load-rated tires, but there is some variance from one tire company to the other.

 

[Titanpat57]

Recently picked up an older M101A1 from GL and plan on doing a home resto during the long winter. My plans are not to trun it into a full back country rig, but rather and extra place for towing hunting gear cross country and camping trips. Future mods are

Swap mil axle and tires for civ 3500lbs axle and 31in or 33in tire.
Tongue box
Fuel/watercan mounts
rack
lights to 12v LED with side markers
and more

Now these trailers are rated for alot of weight, but I will probably never get close to maxing it out. As I shop for tires and rims, i am toorn on wether to get D range tire or E range tires for the less flex in the side walls. I am currently looking at BFG AT's to fit the bill, but don't know if I need to spend the extra cash on E range tires. These will be run on crager soft 8 black steel rims.

Another thing I am throwing around is to go with electric brakes or no brakes.

Sounds like a good plan...but I think I'd skirt on the side of caution and go with the E rated tires and brake axle.....and I'll tell you my reasoning.

I think that the M101a1 is a great platform...heavy duty for sure....but IIRC it is a SOA to start with, which puts more strain on components, on the trail or on the road. Mix that with evasive driving moves, high or low speed, and the stronger side wall will serve you well in a needed situation. The difference in price between the D and E range will be well worth the peace of mind.

Craig did a sweet axle (non- brake) exchange and pintle switch out with impecible workmanship:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42363

I used a M116A2 platform (but for all intents and purpose the same frame as the M101A1). I used a brake axle, but ordered a 3" dia. Dexter Brake axle. It was an exact bolt up using all parts off the old axle. My mechanical skills are limited, and this was the first axle swap I've ever attempted, and was a piece of cake.

My thoughts on brakes is the same as the tires. Towing can sometimes be a real adventure, good tires and brakes can take some of the surprise out it, and keep you, and those around you, safe.

Best of luck with this project,

Pat

 

[nat]

Sounds like a good plan...but I think I'd skirt on the side of caution and go with the E rated tires and brake axle.....and I'll tell you my reasoning.

I think that the M101a1 is a great platform...heavy duty for sure....but IIRC it is a SOA to start with, which puts more strain on components, on the trail or on the road. Mix that with evasive driving moves, high or low speed, and the stronger side wall will serve you well in a needed situation. The difference in price between the D and E range will be well worth the peace of mind.

Craig did a sweet axle (non- brake) exchange and pintle switch out with impecible workmanship:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42363

I used a M116A2 platform (but for all intents and purpose the same frame as the M101A1). I used a brake axle, but ordered a 3" dia. Dexter Brake axle. It was an exact bolt up using all parts off the old axle. My mechanical skills are limited, and this was the first axle swap I've ever attempted, and was a piece of cake.

My thoughts on brakes is the same as the tires. Towing can sometimes be a real adventure, good tires and brakes can take some of the surprise out it, and keep you, and those around you, safe.
Best of luck with this project,

Pat

Sage advice.

 

[JPK]

If you are going to switch axles then get an axle with brakes and also one that matches your tow vehicle hub if possible.

But if you really believe you don't need brakes (you're in the Rockies, I'd get brakes,) why bother switching axles? You can get aftermarket wheels for tubeless tires in almost any diameter and width with the same five bolt pattern the M101A1 has pretty cheap compared to a new axle. Google "Military Wheels".

JPK

 

[shortbus4x4]

I have a M116a2 and use load range e tires on it. Instead of buying a brand new set I went to the tire store and got some used ones. Unless you are towing your trailer a lot your tires will end up "worn out" from age not worn out tread. You can save a lot of money by going with a good used set of tires, it's also recycling at its best. I also like load range e because I don't load them up capacity wise but I do drive it offroad and they seem to handle sharp rocks better.

 

[tdesanto]

Just for reference:
C = 6 ply
D = 8 ply
E= 10 ply

I thought this type of construction was outdated, am I wrong?

I got this from the BFG website:


Here they describe their TriGard 3-ply polyester carcass construction.

So, for the e-rated, are you saying there are 7 other plies they're not telling us about?

Now, I could see that the E-rate might be a bit more resistant to abuse if the argument is that the sidewalls are stronger, because they have to be to support the additional weight that the E-rated tire is designed to handle.

Regarding brakes:

Don't even think twice about not adding them. This should be standard on any off-road trailer. Think about this scenario: you're going down a steep hill. In fact, it's so steep you're engine braking in first gear. Do you really want that trailer pushing you down a steep grade?

 

[Mr. Leary]

Regarding brakes:

Don't even think twice about not adding them. This should be standard on any off-road trailer. Think about this scenario: you're going down a steep hill. In fact, it's so steep you're engine braking in first gear. Do you really want that trailer pushing you down a steep grade?

I agree, and I'll add another two scenarios. Its very nice to be able to lock up the rear brakes to keep you planted in case you don't succeed in a hill climb, giving you time to adjust without your truck being dragged down the hill.

Its also nice to be able to manually lock up the trailer tires and chock them as an anchor point.


Get brakes, especially on something that big. Otherwise, it WILL wag the dog, usually when its not a good time.

 

[Antichrist]

I'd figure out the expected gross weight of the trailer and buy tires to suit that based on their load rating, with a good safety margin. In other words, if the sidewall says max 40psi @ 1200lbs and you expect the gross trailer weight to be 2200lbs, that would not be a good tire choice IMO.

Of course, if you're setting it up so the trailer takes the same wheel as your tow vehicle I'd get tires to match the tow vehicle.

Edited for clarity.

 

[MIhunter]

I am considering the breaks, but I am not completely sold on the fact that they will be needed. I am not a jeep guy and I don't not do trail rides. This trailer will be pulled mainly by a 2009 crew Chevy 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck. This trailer will be mainly used for hunting from place to place in the back country. My pop up camper weighs more and does not have breaks. I have never had an issue, however I am leaning towards it.

I am ditching the military axle and tires for a few reasons. One is to get rid of the tube tires and Budd split rims. The only way to get away from them and run a standard truck tire is to do the axle conversion. This trailer is the M101A1. If it was the A2 or A3, I would be running the stock axle. Aftermarket wheels for the A1 cannot be found.

Another reason is cost of tires. You are looking at over $200 each if you can find them. Just conducting a bearing replacement would be over $200 due to parts alone.

The last is to get some weight off of it. Dry weight on these is almost 1300lbs. Just swapping out the axle and tires will save up to a couple hundred pounds.

It just make sense to me to do a axle swap/tire swap. I do not plan on keep the bolt pattern the same as it may be pulled by a couple different trucks. However, It will have two spares to go along when needed. I am going to run 16 X 7 Crager soft 8 black spokes (5 by 4.5 bolt) with 265/75/16 BFG AT's

[[/I]

 

[JPK]

Here is the link where rims, in your choice of diameter and width, for tubeless tires with M101A1 bolt pattern are available for relatively cheap: http://www.stocktonwheel.com/military_wheels.htm

There are three or four other sources as well.

As far as tires, there are more than a few tires that match the original military size of 9x16LT for a lot less than $200/tire. Truxus has them and if you time it right you can buy their seconds cheap. BTW, I have very successfully run tubes in tubeless tires. Also it isn't hard to find used original tires in decent condition.

As another cheap alternative, get a swaped out M101A2 axle and lunette. The you get surge breaks and eight bolt chevy hubs for (almost) free.

If you go with a new axle, electric breaks and a controler for the tow vehicle would be best, but you would need a controler for each tow vehicle. Surge breaks would be a choice that would work universally amongst tow vehicles.

The M101's tow very well and with my Unlimited JK (with Hemi) it is easy to forget they are behind you. Same or even more so behind my 3/4 ton Suburban. And I have both an M101A1 and an A2. I don't mind the A1's lack of breaks, but maybe I would if I lived in the Rockies.

JPK

 

[The Adam Blaster]

I thought this type of construction was outdated, am I wrong?

Here they describe their TriGard 3-ply polyester carcass construction.

So, for the e-rated, are you saying there are 7 other plies they're not telling us about?

No, you're not wrong, and there aren't 7 other plies hiding in there somewhere...
It's just industry terminology.
Radial tires are constructed very differently from bias ply tires, and the terminology of a ply rating is left over from the days of bias tire construction. I think the only "major" manufacturer that makes bias tires for the North American market is Interco.
Describing a tire as 10-ply or 6-ply is just a quick reference as to roughly determine it's load carrying capacity.

A trend I've been noticing in the last couple of years is that the manufacturers are actually getting rid of the 6 and 8 ply models. Goodyear did this with their line of Silent Armors most recently. In the 245/75R16 and 265's they are now only making a P-rated and 10-ply tire.
They have improved the design of the P-rated tires to the point that they are actually rated to carry more weight than the older 6-ply model.

Getting rid of the 8-ply models is actually long overdue in my opinion.
The old addage was that you used a 6-ply for a 1/2 ton truck, and 8-ply for a 3/4 ton truck, and a 10-ply for a 1-ton.
In the last... I don't know, maybe 5-10 years? If you look at the weight ratings of a 3/4 ton truck, it would blow away the rating of a 1 ton from 15-20 years ago. Even the 1/2 tons of today can haul and tow a huge amount of weight compared to an older model.
Why bother having a couple of midrange tires when you should really be using a higher end 10-ply tire to handle these heavier loads?