Locker / Gear setup...

[Nikson]

No. A Detroit (or Aussie, LockRite, and a few others) are ratcheting automatic lockers. They require no input from you to lock and unlock. The axle shafts can (under various conditions, such as coasting through a turn) rotate at different speeds.

A spool does not ratchet. It physically fuses the right and left axle shaft together so that they cannot go at different speeds; you can duplicate this by effect welding your spider gears to your carrier. The ARB,when you elect to engage it, creates a spool condition - a solid locking of the two axle shafts.


As for the original question:

With 25% overdrive and 33" tires and a trailer >1500 lbs, I'd err on the side of 4.88 gears. In snow/ice, I'd NOT put an automatic locker in the front under any circumstances and would be very hesitant to do so in the rear. If you don't deal with snow/ice on the highway, well, I've never lived in such a place, so I don't know what's best.

I have been considering 4.88s more and more... seem like just a better overall option to go with, problem is that they might not be available, but will have to double check.

as far as selectable or not, have to see how that goes... I live in the valley, so I dont see slippery conditions all that much. whenever I head out to the hills, its not that long of the drive and I consider myself pretty experienced winter driver (5 winters in North Dakota)

and I sure love the snow... (this is 03-30-2010) - recent snowfall

 

[Nikson]

Additionally, if you are dealing with snow and ice covered roads I'd be inclined to only install a manual locker that was a true open differential when unlocked (i.e. not a LSD when not engaged).

IIRC only the ARB and OX are open differentials when not engaged. But I could be wrong on that. I'm only interested in ARBs so haven't bothered to stay current with the newer offerings.

What about concerns of moisture in the lines & problems with line damage on the trail? I am not speaking from personal experience, just from what others say...

 

[Root Moose]

I think those issues are overstated by pundits.

As far as air in the lines, if it becomes an issue add a drier to the system. It's normal OBA stuff we are talking about.

Line damage? Yeah, if you install the lines on the bottom of the axle then sure. Hedge your bets with some stainless braid lines. The lines that come with the ARB are not inspiring... I haven't bought ARBs in ~5 years but from what I remember they were little plastic lines. The enginerd in me replaced that stuff with SS braid.

The important thing about ARBs is having someone with a clue do the install. It's not hard.

Great picture (I hate snow).

 

[Nikson]

I think those issues are overstated by pundits.

As far as air in the lines, if it becomes an issue add a drier to the system. It's normal OBA stuff we are talking about.

Line damage? Yeah, if you install the lines on the bottom of the axle then sure. Hedge your bets with some stainless braid lines. The lines that come with the ARB are not inspiring... I haven't bought ARBs in ~5 years but from what I remember they were little plastic lines. The enginerd in me replaced that stuff with SS braid.

The important thing about ARBs is having someone with a clue do the install. It's not hard.

Great picture (I hate snow).

Thats one of a good points - most comments seem to come from people who had no clue on proper installation, or may be heard the same as they said from another guy... so really no basis for that opinion...

============

Love the snow... since its an hour drive from my house...

 

[charlieaarons]

I have had Detroit Soflockers in 2 vehicles driven on snow and ice for 6 months/year: 88 F350 and 79 BJ40.
I was very happy with the handling of both.
The key thing is: USE 4WD on snow and ice. If you try to be "macho" and use 2WD with a Detroit in the rear, it will cause trouble. Being in 4WD totally mitigates throttle oversteer. Admittedly, neither vehicle was overpowered.

Charlie

 

[DrMoab]

I have had Detroit Soflockers in 2 vehicles driven on snow and ice for 6 months/year: 88 F350 and 79 BJ40.
I was very happy with the handling of both.
The key thing is: USE 4WD on snow and ice. If you try to be "macho" and use 2WD with a Detroit in the rear, it will cause trouble. Being in 4WD totally mitigates throttle oversteer. Admittedly, neither vehicle was overpowered.

I have to disagree with this just a bit. I ran a detroit in the rear of a jeep for many many years and loved it. Most of what I did was not in the snow however.

While it's true that putting a vehicle in 4wd takes away "most" of the tendency to oversteer, it doesn't take it all away. One of the worst conditions you can get yourself into is an off-camber slick spot, like a muddy sidehill or if you are coming off something steep in the snow. With a fully locking diff in the rear they tend to want to swing the rear end down hill, making it super hard to keep control of your vehicle.

 

[Root Moose]

Who said that? Probably one of those 'tards at Jp magazine that say the Ford 8.8 is a crap axle and not worth bothering with because it is a C-clip setup. <roll_eyes />

Sure, get your line hung up and and it could get sheared off.

You could drop your front axle in a hole and shear off the knuckle.

A meteorite might fall out of the sky and take out your ECM too.

What are we trying to design around, the practical or the ridiculous?

Realistically, run the line over the diff and up the rear brake line to the chassis, run the line with the fuel lines to the engine bay to your air source. If that line gets ripped off you likely have bigger problems than the locker not working (no rear brakes or fuel pressure to run the engine).

Follow a similar path for the front.

Punditry with hypotheticals is fun; you can make up ******** to be contrary at every step of the discussion.

 

[Black Dog]

and I sure love the snow... (this is 03-30-2010) - recent snowfall

Thats very cool, literally and figuratively. Its snowy situations like that when a set of mattracks would be awesome. But only people who are made of money have those.

 

[Root Moose]

I must talk to Bill about this point the next time I see him (he's in our 4x4 club).

I have yet to see this failure mode... but I don't get out much.

A vendor on here has got a smokin' deal on ARBs right now. A couple hundred dollars more than I paid for a Powertrax No-slip and it includes the (small) compressor.

Yeah, I saw that. I'm no where near ready for the next build but am half tempted to order some ARB goodness anyway. I haven't even decided on what axles to run yet! LOL

 

[Root Moose]

LOL

Too funny.

I have no idea who you are!

 

[Root Moose]

LOL

Context is everything I guess... Now I'm wondering.

 

[Black Dog]

No need to worry. It was a beer fueled discussion around a camp fire about Unix Administration. :elkgrin:

I was kind of curious of the "Root" in Root Moose had something to do with a *nix super user.

 

[Nikson]

Thats very cool, literally and figuratively. Its snowy situations like that when a set of mattracks would be awesome. But only people who are made of money have those.

I've also heard various feedback on those... from mostly "useful" description - your rig pretty much has to be set to ONLY tracks. Since going back to wheel setup or vise verso... isnt as easy as 30 minutes per their description.

but they definitely make a difference... know some guys that run them on their four-wheelers, and seems to be pretty cool in the snow,,, but snowmobile still a better / faster way to go...

 

[Nikson]

Sorry if this is considered a thread hijack, Nikson. With limited options for your 8.25, ARB is about the best solution. I run a Powertrax, it works flawlessly, is easy to install but I don't like it too much (I'm just about to swap the axle for one with an ARB in it that I acquired recently). Bite the bullet and do it right the first time. Hopefully this info'll come in handy.

A vendor on here has got a smokin' deal on ARBs right now. A couple hundred dollars more than I paid for a Powertrax No-slip and it includes the (small) compressor.

:beer:

Sounds like we are all on the same subject...

I am just trying to see what people have to suggest and actually make a right choice for myself... Dont really feel like doing thing TWICE...

 

[eurytopic]

If you can afford it there is really no substitute for ARB's front and rear. It is the strongest, most reliable, and flexible setup available for your axles. As long as the air lines are ran correctly and the internal air seal is installed correctly you will not have a problem. The ARB carrier is STOUT. Far stronger than the factory carrier (that you have to reuse with lunchbox lockers). You do not want the carrier or gears to be your weak link. Far cheaper and easer to swap an axle than a munched carrier / gears. Plus you get the street manners that you can only get with an unlocked axle not to mention the better trail manners and less wear and tear on your drivetrain. If you do have an issue with an air line - the plastic air lines are easily trail repairable - and if not - you still have a working vehicle. The locker just won't be locked up. Also, if you order before April 30th and get two lockers - ARB will give you their high capacity compressor and air up kit for free. Buy them on ebay, use 8% bing cashback, and you have a hell of a deal.

I read the thread and wasn't sure if you are doing the gear/ locker install yourself. If you are, and haven't done one before, you should have someone help you with the setup. It's not technically difficult, but having experience along with the many tools that are required to do it correctly is necessary.

As far as 4.56 and 4.88 - there isn't that big of a difference ratio wise between the two. Not like the difference between your stock 3.55 and 4.56. There is however a strength (some may say overblown) issue of the 4.88 ratio when installed in the D30 front. You end up with a pretty tiny (and weaker) pinion gear and is also a little bit harder to setup and get a good pattern from.