Long distance off-road capable moto hauler…
- Thread starter neduro
- Start date
neduro
Member
Thanks for the thoughtful responses, all! It's fun to follow links to all the stuff people point out, I'm going to need help when it comes to suspension decisions.
Good point, and the answer is yes. However, my research is that all of Mexico will be ULSD by later this year (and many stations already are), and that Dodges don't really suffer from higher sulfer diesel except by consuming substantially more DEF. So, I had decided this wasn't a fatal issue to a new truck. I see so many late model diesels in my travels down there, people obviously make it work.
I have a love/ hate relationship with this kind of stuff- super cool, until you're looking at a puddle of something on the side of the road and you know you're f'd on getting parts and making it home on time. I'm focused on stock-ish for this rig, aside from a few upgrades like suspension.
Good point, and the answer is yes. However, my research is that all of Mexico will be ULSD by later this year (and many stations already are), and that Dodges don't really suffer from higher sulfer diesel except by consuming substantially more DEF. So, I had decided this wasn't a fatal issue to a new truck. I see so many late model diesels in my travels down there, people obviously make it work.
I have a love/ hate relationship with this kind of stuff- super cool, until you're looking at a puddle of something on the side of the road and you know you're f'd on getting parts and making it home on time. I'm focused on stock-ish for this rig, aside from a few upgrades like suspension.
neduro
Member
Ned, three years ago a bought a new 2015 Ram 2500 with diesel and short bed. I have put 50K on it and couldn't be happier with this truck. I ride dirtbikes and go to races all over Nevada. The fuel mileage, power, tow capacity, and comfort is amazing. I considered a Tradesman, but got a BigHorn with the better stereo and heated seats instead. I previously had a Ford with a 7.3 and the Ram beats it on all accounts. I haven't lifted it as the tailgate is tall enough and getting bikes in the back is only going to to get harder with bigger tires and a lift. Some of our rides/race locations stage far from the pavement and down many miles of washboard dirt roads, the Ram is pretty good with just some Bilsteins on it. I'm pretty sure that King can provide shocks for stock height and valving suited to stock Ram spring rates.
I tow a Desert Fox toyhauler for extended trips, but have always thought that a long bed truck with a flatbed on it with a short, side entry pop up camper would be ideal. The short camper would leave room for a bike (or two) to be loaded behind the camper.
I tow a Desert Fox toyhauler for extended trips, but have always thought that a long bed truck with a flatbed on it with a short, side entry pop up camper would be ideal. The short camper would leave room for a bike (or two) to be loaded behind the camper.
Adventurous
Explorer
A diesel rig from either Ford or Ram with a set of 35's and quality aftermarket suspension is a pretty nifty combo that sounds like it would satisfy the bulk of your needs. Those big diesels are incredibly comfortable and fun to drive.
I chose the RAM because of the Cummins and I could get everything I wanted with nothing I didn't need at the right price.
I chose the RAM because of the Cummins and I could get everything I wanted with nothing I didn't need at the right price.
neduro
Member
I started here with more questions than answers, but I am settling into a scheme and taking steps in that direction.
First is the general plan. There are two inspirations- first is the support truck my team had for the Dakar rally years ago (I raced/ finished the rally in 2012 on a bike). This was a 2001 F350 with a custom enclosed box, designed to haul all the crap racebikes (and racers) need. Both sides opened to give easy access to everything in the bed (and provided shade/ shelter), but the back was fixed.
Second are trophy truck team chase trucks, which typically have suspension upgrades and custom service bodies configured to haul all the tools needed in that pursuit. I want an enclosure but I think there are lessons here, too.
My thought is I can combine these concepts as a starting point, put an RTT over the cab, and build a custom bed to get the length I need on a short wheelbase. My vision is a box where three sides open but the roof remains fixed. No pictures of that because it doesn’t exist yet!
Years ago, I made a living as a car dealer, buying oddball stuff at auction and selling it retail. That business hasn’t been my focus for years, but I’ve kept the license active which comes in handy whenever I need a vehicle. Last week, a 2018 CCSB Laramie with 4200 miles popped up at auction in San Francisco in a color I like, with a 5.0/5 condition report, so I said to heck with it, threw in a bid, and next thing I knew, I needed a plane ticket to SF. I’ll eat some good food, pick up my new truck, and a road trip home- sounds like a nice few days. If I like the truck, I’ll get to work. If I don’t, no harm/ no foul, I’ll sell it and try again. Here's my first view of the truck:
From the small world department, I stopped at a buddies birthday party on my way to the airport, and what should roll up but the closest thing to what I’m thinking about I’ve ever seen. The owner races King of the Hammers trucks and this is one of his chase fleet, with a James Baraud RTT over the cab.
He has a spare bed I can pick up if I want it, but I think I’m going to make my own, partly for the project and partly because all the service bodies I have looked at are higher than I want- I really want to minimize the height of the box over the roofline of the truck, which means fighting for every inch down at the frame.
The next decision is going to be suspension, so that whatever box I build accommodates wheel travel. I don’t want to raise height, but I do want a supple yet controlled ride. King? Fox? Thuren? Carli? Are stock spring rates appropriate?
I have yet to get a reliable review on what to expect from these options offroad. I keep hearing that Kings require a lot of rebuilding and don’t hold up to winter use, which would rule them out. I’ve been happy with the Fox setup I have on the Tundra, so the leading candidate right now is bolting those on with stock suspension. I would love opinions on this, especially from those who own/ have used them.
Now for a 1200 mile test drive.
First is the general plan. There are two inspirations- first is the support truck my team had for the Dakar rally years ago (I raced/ finished the rally in 2012 on a bike). This was a 2001 F350 with a custom enclosed box, designed to haul all the crap racebikes (and racers) need. Both sides opened to give easy access to everything in the bed (and provided shade/ shelter), but the back was fixed.
Second are trophy truck team chase trucks, which typically have suspension upgrades and custom service bodies configured to haul all the tools needed in that pursuit. I want an enclosure but I think there are lessons here, too.
My thought is I can combine these concepts as a starting point, put an RTT over the cab, and build a custom bed to get the length I need on a short wheelbase. My vision is a box where three sides open but the roof remains fixed. No pictures of that because it doesn’t exist yet!
Years ago, I made a living as a car dealer, buying oddball stuff at auction and selling it retail. That business hasn’t been my focus for years, but I’ve kept the license active which comes in handy whenever I need a vehicle. Last week, a 2018 CCSB Laramie with 4200 miles popped up at auction in San Francisco in a color I like, with a 5.0/5 condition report, so I said to heck with it, threw in a bid, and next thing I knew, I needed a plane ticket to SF. I’ll eat some good food, pick up my new truck, and a road trip home- sounds like a nice few days. If I like the truck, I’ll get to work. If I don’t, no harm/ no foul, I’ll sell it and try again. Here's my first view of the truck:
From the small world department, I stopped at a buddies birthday party on my way to the airport, and what should roll up but the closest thing to what I’m thinking about I’ve ever seen. The owner races King of the Hammers trucks and this is one of his chase fleet, with a James Baraud RTT over the cab.
He has a spare bed I can pick up if I want it, but I think I’m going to make my own, partly for the project and partly because all the service bodies I have looked at are higher than I want- I really want to minimize the height of the box over the roofline of the truck, which means fighting for every inch down at the frame.
The next decision is going to be suspension, so that whatever box I build accommodates wheel travel. I don’t want to raise height, but I do want a supple yet controlled ride. King? Fox? Thuren? Carli? Are stock spring rates appropriate?
I have yet to get a reliable review on what to expect from these options offroad. I keep hearing that Kings require a lot of rebuilding and don’t hold up to winter use, which would rule them out. I’ve been happy with the Fox setup I have on the Tundra, so the leading candidate right now is bolting those on with stock suspension. I would love opinions on this, especially from those who own/ have used them.
Now for a 1200 mile test drive.
Adventurous
Explorer
I started here with more questions than answers, but I am settling into a scheme and taking steps in that direction.
First is the general plan. There are two inspirations- first is the support truck my team had for the Dakar rally years ago (I raced/ finished the rally in 2012 on a bike). This was a 2001 F350 with a custom enclosed box, designed to haul all the crap racebikes (and racers) need. Both sides opened to give easy access to everything in the bed (and provided shade/ shelter), but the back was fixed.
Second are trophy truck team chase trucks, which typically have suspension upgrades and custom service bodies configured to haul all the tools needed in that pursuit. I want an enclosure but I think there are lessons here, too.
My thought is I can combine these concepts as a starting point, put an RTT over the cab, and build a custom bed to get the length I need on a short wheelbase. My vision is a box where three sides open but the roof remains fixed. No pictures of that because it doesn’t exist yet!
Years ago, I made a living as a car dealer, buying oddball stuff at auction and selling it retail. That business hasn’t been my focus for years, but I’ve kept the license active which comes in handy whenever I need a vehicle. Last week, a 2018 CCSB Laramie with 4200 miles popped up at auction in San Francisco in a color I like, with a 5.0/5 condition report, so I said to heck with it, threw in a bid, and next thing I knew, I needed a plane ticket to SF. I’ll eat some good food, pick up my new truck, and a road trip home- sounds like a nice few days. If I like the truck, I’ll get to work. If I don’t, no harm/ no foul, I’ll sell it and try again. Here's my first view of the truck:
From the small world department, I stopped at a buddies birthday party on my way to the airport, and what should roll up but the closest thing to what I’m thinking about I’ve ever seen. The owner races King of the Hammers trucks and this is one of his chase fleet, with a James Baraud RTT over the cab.
He has a spare bed I can pick up if I want it, but I think I’m going to make my own, partly for the project and partly because all the service bodies I have looked at are higher than I want- I really want to minimize the height of the box over the roofline of the truck, which means fighting for every inch down at the frame.
The next decision is going to be suspension, so that whatever box I build accommodates wheel travel. I don’t want to raise height, but I do want a supple yet controlled ride. King? Fox? Thuren? Carli? Are stock spring rates appropriate?
I have yet to get a reliable review on what to expect from these options offroad. I keep hearing that Kings require a lot of rebuilding and don’t hold up to winter use, which would rule them out. I’ve been happy with the Fox setup I have on the Tundra, so the leading candidate right now is bolting those on with stock suspension. I would love opinions on this, especially from those who own/ have used them.
Now for a 1200 mile test drive.
I went with a Thuren/King 2.5 kit for the suspension on my 3500. The main draw was that I could get near OEM height suspension with better shocks valves more appropriately for what I use my truck for. No off-road time on them yet, but I can confirm the street manners are much more palatable. While it still rides like a one ton unloaded truck, it no longer donkey kicks over bumps and feels a lot more controlled. Gimme about a week or so and I’ll have better feedback about their performance with a camper in the bed.
That’s the first I’ve heard about Kings degrading in the winter. Are we talking corrosion of the bodies/shafts? Or puking oil? Part of that will just be the reality of an aluminum body in a salt atmosphere, but they do offer a stainless steel upgrade for $90 per shocks that should help alleviate that. Also, a good undercoating like Krown or Fluid Film would probably be the best preventative for both your shocks and the rest of the vehicle. That said, there is nothing wrong with Fox if you have had good experiences with them. I prefer either Fox or King, but that’s personal preference due to the progressive valving.
Good luck with your choice! Glad to see you were able to find something that fit the bill. Excited to see where you take it.
Kingsize24
Well-known member
Hell yes brother! Welcome to the Ram herd.
I don't have anything to add on when it regards Kings since I've never owned any, but I've been super pleased with the ride out of Thurens overland shocks. Nothing special, just a plain white shock, but they pair with his spring setup well. I've done a couple trucks with them now, and the ride quality difference is notable. I'm sure a higher quality shock rides better when pushed at the limit, but if it needs to be rebuilt on a regular basis and is not reliable, what is the point?
My take here is, fit the suspension you want with the tire size you want. 35's literally require nothing but a set of properly offset wheels in the 18-28 offset range. 37's fit with a good level kit and nothing more. Power wagon wheels are close, and work if you want to stay OEM, but are 32ish~. Your factory spider wheels are 57ish~ or so.
I personally would get the weight of the truck how you want it, fully loaded, then pick my suspension and tire needs then. JMHO
Jason
I don't have anything to add on when it regards Kings since I've never owned any, but I've been super pleased with the ride out of Thurens overland shocks. Nothing special, just a plain white shock, but they pair with his spring setup well. I've done a couple trucks with them now, and the ride quality difference is notable. I'm sure a higher quality shock rides better when pushed at the limit, but if it needs to be rebuilt on a regular basis and is not reliable, what is the point?
My take here is, fit the suspension you want with the tire size you want. 35's literally require nothing but a set of properly offset wheels in the 18-28 offset range. 37's fit with a good level kit and nothing more. Power wagon wheels are close, and work if you want to stay OEM, but are 32ish~. Your factory spider wheels are 57ish~ or so.
I personally would get the weight of the truck how you want it, fully loaded, then pick my suspension and tire needs then. JMHO
Jason
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Paddy
Adventurer
I’m on a similar path with my ford. The service beds are neat, and almost free to purchase so go for that if you like it, but know that they raise the bed floor a few inches and might make a slide in camper harder to fit if that’s a concern. They are also heavy. But my diesel gets 15mpg and goes 80 all day easily. I’m going to build a cap for the back that’s tall enough for my bikes with fold down bunks for sleeping. I’m also going to cut the back out of the cab so I can pass through, and I think I’ll bond the bed to the cab as well.
Attachments
What are the negative reviews on the Kings?
neduro
Member
Home. Yesterday I did San Fran to Grand Junction, was there in time for dinner.
I am very pleased with the vehicle on the road. Better fuel economy than I was hoping for, I love the vented seat for long days in hot weather, and dead stable and comfortable. Only nit to pick is that I read you can't set the cruise higher than 85 (Utah is all 80mph freeways ;-). Overall run dropped to 18.4 between GJ and Salida today, but I hammered it over the passes. Which was quite satisfying.
It used barely any DEF in the run- after using friends trucks to tow, I was anticipating substantial consumption, but I think light loads mean it barely touches it. It was almost empty when I picked it up, I added 2.5 gallons which meant I started below 3/4, and finished above 1/2.
I think the truck is a keeper for me. I'm going to dig into my custom box project. Thoughts on the road include needing to figure out how to relocate the tailgate lock into whatever I build (and the backup cam), being curious how canbus will play with whatever lighting I decide to do, and about 700,000 iterations of design. Gonna be fun to settle on a plan and get to work.
I spoke with two people who owned them in the past. One said that his didn't make a single winter with mag chloride, etc, and the other said that his failed in cold weather and required a full rebuild.
The plural of anecdote is not data, but since these are actual people who spent their money on the product I tend to believe the info, and it definitely sways my thinking.
I also saw a test that seemed to indicate some points of Fox are better, and some of King, but overall the Fox might be more durable.
I am very pleased with the vehicle on the road. Better fuel economy than I was hoping for, I love the vented seat for long days in hot weather, and dead stable and comfortable. Only nit to pick is that I read you can't set the cruise higher than 85 (Utah is all 80mph freeways ;-). Overall run dropped to 18.4 between GJ and Salida today, but I hammered it over the passes. Which was quite satisfying.
It used barely any DEF in the run- after using friends trucks to tow, I was anticipating substantial consumption, but I think light loads mean it barely touches it. It was almost empty when I picked it up, I added 2.5 gallons which meant I started below 3/4, and finished above 1/2.
I think the truck is a keeper for me. I'm going to dig into my custom box project. Thoughts on the road include needing to figure out how to relocate the tailgate lock into whatever I build (and the backup cam), being curious how canbus will play with whatever lighting I decide to do, and about 700,000 iterations of design. Gonna be fun to settle on a plan and get to work.
I spoke with two people who owned them in the past. One said that his didn't make a single winter with mag chloride, etc, and the other said that his failed in cold weather and required a full rebuild.
The plural of anecdote is not data, but since these are actual people who spent their money on the product I tend to believe the info, and it definitely sways my thinking.
I also saw a test that seemed to indicate some points of Fox are better, and some of King, but overall the Fox might be more durable.
What I especially like about the Ram w/ 6.7l Cummins is that a DEf gauge is provided. I think Ford provides a digital gauge that you can toggle to, but the other companies don't provide any indication until the DEF goes below a certain point....totally stupid IMHO. I'm glad FCA saw the wisdom of putting in an actual gauge for that fluid.
Got it. I wasn't doubting your claim, but I just wanted to know what the context was. I haven't heard a whole lot about King's longterm durability.
Kingsize24
Well-known member
Welcome home! I bet you can't wait to get those ideas in your head into an actual product you can use. I look forward to see what you do.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
The Kings are made of the same aluminum stuff as Fox, Icon, or anything else. They all will pit and get wasted quick if you don't maintain them. Quality shocks require rebuilds. Get the tools, and have fun with it.
With any shock, you should hang some rubber on them to protect the shafts in the winter. And wash them often. Big shocks will firm up in cold weather. It's normal. I also suggest clear coat spray painting the bodies. Cover up the adjusters with tape.
Watch the Filthy Motorsports shock vids on youtube for all you ever wanted to know about shocks.
With any shock, you should hang some rubber on them to protect the shafts in the winter. And wash them often. Big shocks will firm up in cold weather. It's normal. I also suggest clear coat spray painting the bodies. Cover up the adjusters with tape.
Watch the Filthy Motorsports shock vids on youtube for all you ever wanted to know about shocks.
