Long Jeep.....chasing unicorns

[Metcalf]

Here is some of my initial design work layout.....



Same LS truck engine, 6l80, np205, 2002 dodge Dana 60s, 40-42" tires, 110" wheelbase (8/8 stretch). The body will be minimized while retaining enough of it for doors, tops, and the windshield. The rockers are fully boatsided. The tailgate area is much shorter. No room for a rear seat. The interior of the body would be all custom paneling that would bolt to the cage structure. The frame is running a 12" kick front and back to allow more uptravel from a lower overall height with a flat smooth belly. The suspension is a 4-link rear and a 3-link + panhard from with a hydro assist steering box. 12" travel coilovers set 6-up/6-down.

The front of the frame is shown long ( basically a mirror of the rear length for fabrication purposes ) so far. I don't have much data on the length of the CJ7 nose yet.

I have been futzing around with this idea for a bit.

 

[mbryson]

Think along the lines of the car that Campbell built for Walker Evans....buggy with full body panels.

I think I would just use some CJ7/YJ panels since you can get all that new and for a decent price. The last time I added it up the cowl, side panels, and corners where only about $850 total. The CJ stuff does admittedly have the easiest windshield/wiper/defrost system. I would have to give up on being able to sleep inside the vehicle most likely with the shorter cabin area. Sure. I could make it longer but that gets opens up another Pandora box of modification as far as the top/tub/doors stuff goes. I don't know. I am very torn on how serious of a vehicle I want to chase. One part of me wants to get on the HARD stuff in my area......Farmington, Moab, Monstrose, Grand Junction, etc. The other part is getting older and wants something that can go down the road with a top, doors, a heater, etc.

You don't see too many total space frame rock buggies with full bodies.....

I've thought of doing that with CJ8 quarter panel blanks where I can cut my own wheelwell where I'd like to. Tops are kind of expensive for the CJ8, but they are available. I might use a "front half" of a CJ7/YJ tub then build the rear of the vehicle out so the CJ8 top would fit. (you did notice my JKU in an earlier picture....I'm already tiring of the electronics EVERYWHERE in that rig....drove the "crawler" to work as the JKU is at the dealer) Get a donor GM rig and start swapping what I want (powertrain up to the tcase) into the Jeep tub (maybe even use the GM fuel system?) and have the electrical harness stripped of what I don't want. Then add the heater (AC ?) etc that I'd like to have. Put some ton axles (Super Duty?) under it and hopefully have a nicely finished, comfortable rig that would be capable of anything I want to throw at it. Gear ratios matched for highway travel but have enough gearing in the transfer case to account for some low range niceness (3.0?ish Atlas with 4.56 gears and 37"ish tires--should run down the road nicely and crawl OK in the rocks but be decent for generic 4WD uses)

Basically this, but stretched to fit a CJ8 top.

 

[Metcalf]

I've thought of doing that with CJ8 quarter panel blanks where I can cut my own wheelwell where I'd like to. Tops are kind of expensive for the CJ8, but they are available. I might use a "front half" of a CJ7/YJ tub then build the rear of the vehicle out so the CJ8 top would fit. (you did notice my JKU in an earlier picture....I'm already tiring of the electronics EVERYWHERE in that rig....drove the "crawler" to work as the JKU is at the dealer) Get a donor GM rig and start swapping what I want (powertrain up to the tcase) into the Jeep tub (maybe even use the GM fuel system?) and have the electrical harness stripped of what I don't want. Then add the heater (AC ?) etc that I'd like to have. Put some ton axles (Super Duty?) under it and hopefully have a nicely finished, comfortable rig that would be capable of anything I want to throw at it. Gear ratios matched for highway travel but have enough gearing in the transfer case to account for some low range niceness (3.0?ish Atlas with 4.56 gears and 37"ish tires--should run down the road nicely and crawl OK in the rocks but be decent for generic 4WD uses)

Perfectly doable. For me I look at building a custom vehicle and I just have to think how much better it would be if I didn't have to start with a complete vehicle. I realize that building a complete vehicle from nothing and using nothing from anything else becomes too blank a sheet of paper at some point. That is why I want to be able to use a 'jeep' top, windshield, etc. It also makes it somewhat more recognizable to other people, and probably better 'looking', if it looks like a 'jeep'.

I have not really been digging on the trailer thing with the Willys. I have done some LONG trips in it without a top/doors and it gets to be a bit much at times. The season for being able to do that is also pretty short. I would like whatever version of this unicorn I end up building to be able to go down the road. For me that basically means a windshield, wipers, a top, a heater, and probably a steering box ( not full hydraulic steering ).

For me, the truck LS engine, 6l80 auto, np205, and Dodge dana 60s(with deep ring and pinions) should give me all the road, sand, and crawling gears I need. 2500rpm at 65mph or so. 50+:1 low range. It should also do 50-60mph in low range which should be enough for some fun in the sand and desert.

 

[blackdmax15]

Metcalf,

I am just now seeing this thread, but your idea is exactly what i have been looking at building. I have gone back and forth with the very same ideas as you have. When reading the opening post i felt like it was something i wrote haha. What i have come up with is this: Buy a salvage diesel of your choice and then mate the jeep jk body to it. Almost exactly how Petersons did the 2007 ultimate JK. I have skipped some of the pages of this thread so if it has already come up i apologize.

JK tubs are becoming more readily available as are salvage JK's. Salvage rollover diesel trucks are also numerous and fairly cheap. With a 20k budget it will be hard to do, but 30k i feel this is the only way to go. I currently have a RCLB 2011 duramax that was a compromise between my 4dr duramax and my 2008 JK. For the price of bolt on 1 tons, ls v8 engine swap, and all the other goodies required, i was at 54k...before the price of the JK! My new duramax was 40k and it alraedy had the diesel, 1 ton drivetrain, plus could i actually tow with it.

I don't know what your final outcome will be, but once i get my most recent duramax paid off here in a year or so, i am going to buy a salvage duramax or ford (i favor the duramax even with IFS issues), and then chop the frame to fit the JK body. I also plan on stretching the wheelbase slightly (2" in the front and 3-4" in the rear).

Of course another way would be to buy the two salvage vehicles, and transplant axles and drivetrain into the jeep body, but i just do not know if the JK frame is strong enough to handle all the diesel torque. But using the jeep frame would make the vehicle overall lighter, and more fuel efficient. I have even toyed around with the idea of using the 1/2" ProRock 44 front axle with a FF D60/14bolt and a duramax engine with a ZF-6 transmission or the 4L80E that they use in the van duramaxes. My thought of using the Duramax is it only weighs 100#s more than a 4bt except triple the HP and double the torque.

Jordan

 

[Metcalf]

Metcalf,

I am just now seeing this thread, but your idea is exactly what i have been looking at building. I have gone back and forth with the very same ideas as you have. When reading the opening post i felt like it was something i wrote haha. What i have come up with is this: Buy a salvage diesel of your choice and then mate the jeep jk body to it. Almost exactly how Petersons did the 2007 ultimate JK. I have skipped some of the pages of this thread so if it has already come up i apologize.

JK tubs are becoming more readily available as are salvage JK's. Salvage rollover diesel trucks are also numerous and fairly cheap. With a 20k budget it will be hard to do, but 30k i feel this is the only way to go. I currently have a RCLB 2011 duramax that was a compromise between my 4dr duramax and my 2008 JK. For the price of bolt on 1 tons, ls v8 engine swap, and all the other goodies required, i was at 54k...before the price of the JK! My new duramax was 40k and it alraedy had the diesel, 1 ton drivetrain, plus could i actually tow with it.

I don't know what your final outcome will be, but once i get my most recent duramax paid off here in a year or so, i am going to buy a salvage duramax or ford (i favor the duramax even with IFS issues), and then chop the frame to fit the JK body. I also plan on stretching the wheelbase slightly (2" in the front and 3-4" in the rear).

Of course another way would be to buy the two salvage vehicles, and transplant axles and drivetrain into the jeep body, but i just do not know if the JK frame is strong enough to handle all the diesel torque. But using the jeep frame would make the vehicle overall lighter, and more fuel efficient. I have even toyed around with the idea of using the 1/2" ProRock 44 front axle with a FF D60/14bolt and a duramax engine with a ZF-6 transmission or the 4L80E that they use in the van duramaxes. My thought of using the Duramax is it only weighs 100#s more than a 4bt except triple the HP and double the torque.

Jordan

A million ways to build a jeep for sure!

One of the major issues I have with using an existing tub is that you have to make MAJOR compromises in the design of the suspension. I just don't think I can get the overall height low enough with a production tub, especially in the rear suspension. The rear floor is always too low.....by a lot. You could raise the rear floor and the rear wheel tubs up towards the top of the tub. At some point though it kinda becomes more work to do that than start from basically scratch.

On what I am thinking with the engine/trans/t-case pretty high in the chassis, it will require a custom tunnel too.

So......a new taller tunnel and a new rear floor. For me that is kinda the tipping point to using an existing tub.

When it all boils down, all I really need to keep is enough of a tub to allow me to run a winshield, wipers, top, and doors. The rest is kinda optional. Having an existing cowl shape to be able to bolt a hood to would be nice so it looks like something somewhat kinda recognizable. To me, using jeep panels probably makes the most sense. You can buy them for a decent price any day of the week without having to search high and low. For something like a CJ7 you only need to buy five panels to make most of the body ( cowl, side panel, side panel, corner, corner ).

At this point starting another project like this seems pretty daunting...

 

[blackdmax15]

Yeah i believe the UAJK that was built by petersons had the frame rails cut into the body. After posting my last post i researched other small diesels, for example the 2.8L cummins and the 3.3L cummins. The 2.8L seems to have a lot of promise but as usual, probably not going to be offered in America. Either way i'll be checking up on this post often. Kind of frustrating that the J8 that AEV was planning to deliver never came to fruition. It would have been pricey, but with a 2.8VM motori engine in the 3dr version seems to be exactly what both of us are looking for.

 

[Metcalf]

Yeah i believe the UAJK that was built by petersons had the frame rails cut into the body. After posting my last post i researched other small diesels, for example the 2.8L cummins and the 3.3L cummins. The 2.8L seems to have a lot of promise but as usual, probably not going to be offered in America. Either way i'll be checking up on this post often. Kind of frustrating that the J8 that AEV was planning to deliver never came to fruition. It would have been pricey, but with a 2.8VM motori engine in the 3dr version seems to be exactly what both of us are looking for.

I'd love to do a diesel, but there just isn't a lot of options in the US. For what I want to do the diesel isn't as much 'fun' in certain situations....

AEV did the install of the JKU body on the shortened dodge frame with the 6bt. It was a neat project, its still running around at Peterson's too. The engine was all the way back to the dash with no HVAC if I remember right. The rear of the floor under the rear seat area was cut for the frame and capped. It was pretty neat project. I think it even had rear leaf springs too....

 

[mbryson]

I've had to daily drive my "trail rig" for the past three days (JKU had some electronic issues....ABS, etc.) and thought of this thread often. My "trail rig" is a TBI 350/700/D300 on ton axles and 38" tires. I think you're really onto something here. The TBI is fine but an LS-type motor and 6 speed auto would be awesome. Add some creature comforts (AC/heater/real stereo) and some wheelbase (I'm at 100") and I think that'd be an awesome rig.

Drove my JKU into work today and it is a WAY different rig than the other (duh ) It does have it's merits but there's something cool about the brutal honesty of my "trail rig". If I have more electronic issues, I think I go here (your concept) sooner rather than later...

Oh, one last thing I ran across that may be interesting to you?.....not exactly what you're after but may or may not be a good starting place?
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=26806226&cat=&lpid=&search=easter jeep&ad_cid=1

PRICE 3850.00 I purchased this a easter jeep safari,but now im not going to use. If you have any questions give me a call at 801-597-**** Thanks Dustin. Here is a description on Aqualu's Website.They sale for 5025.00 plus shipping and they are located in bc Canada,So you can save the money on shipping as well.#5066 Jeep Quad Cab
We have designed this #5066 Jeep Quad Cab body for approximately 116" wheelbase and have raised the rear wheel wells up by 3.5" to accommodate larger tires. This is made to work with a custom frame application.

The front door openings are stock width and would accept stock full doors, or our half doors. The rear doors however are a custom width and will be made by us and similar to our Land Cruiser quad cab half doors, #4033-F.

This body is made to accept the standard OEM CJ/ YJ components, such as : tailgate, fenders, windshield frame, grill and hood. This cab like all of our replacement bodies is constructed from 5052 marine grade aluminum alloy that is 5/32”(.156&#8221 in thickness.

The rear doors are "interesting" but I wonder if you could just fill them in? That still leaves you to deal with the floor but...

 

[Metcalf]

That is the idea. A pretty extreme trail rig that you can drive on the road while staying dry. Adding features would be possible. The general concept is all about getting what you want and getting rid of what you don't. For me all I really want a fairly easy way to get a top, doors, wipers, defrost, and some heat. I don't want to give up much is any off-road performance over a buggy type vehicle to have those things.

The big thing that I am chasing with this new chassis is being able to have a lower stance with more uptravel in the suspension. The front end of the chassis is fairly easy. With your typical jeep tub you are very limited in the rear of the chassis for having a decent amount of uptravel without having to cut out the entire rear floor. Then if you want a flat belly and a big transmission and transfer case you have to cut out most of the floor under the front seats. My current design is just a 2 seater. I don't know if having a rear seat with a jeep sized tub AND having low stance and good rear uptravel is very possible.

That aqualu tub is nice, but not my thing. An LJ tub isn't that much more. The bottom line is that starting with an existing tub is either going to be a lot of money or a lot of work. You can get all the skins for a CJ7 sized tub in steel for about $850 if you look around. You could buy a used YJ or CJ7 tub for probably the same amount of money BUT then you have to spend all that time cutting it apart into skins.

 

[Mike S]

Thought about an M151? Might work better than a CJ6 or CJ8.

 

[Metcalf]

Thought about an M151? Might work better than a CJ6 or CJ8.

A mutt? Those are kinda small aren't they?

 

[htxintl]

I am guessing that I would spend more money and time modding a factory frame than I would to just build a custom one? I'm not afraid of building a frame from scratch. I actually think that is one of the easier parts of the build. If you start with a custom frame you are not limited to what you can do with the stock frame. The stock TJ frame really isn't that special in my opinion. I think you could add a little more front kick, make it a parallel rail design, and trim some extra fat off the back of the frame pretty easy. Material for a custom frame is going to be maybe $500 max.

I do get stuck on using a stock tub a little bit. It makes some things easier but makes others more difficult. I do think the stock LJ tub has some pretty neat features but also some things in the design would make it a total pain in the rear to work with. If I found one at the right price maybe.....

A clean custom tub has some real advantages in my opinion, especially when you consider some of the small changes you could make that REALLY improve the overall vehicle....

-The rear floor could be made slightly wider. If you went from the stock 36"(ish) rear floor to around a 40" floor you would have a lot more space. It could allow you to run a large spare tire directly on the floor, forward in the chassis for the best weight distribution. A wider rear seat could be used. More room on the floor to store stuff.

-The rear wheel tubs could be raised. This would let you run a much larger tire at a much lower overall height. On the custom tub the top of the wheel tubs are also flat, much easier for making a platform, mounting things, etc.

-The tunnel can be made much taller. This would let you mount the engine, transmission, and transfer case higher in the chassis with more belly clearance at a lower ride height.

-I don't really love the stock TJ dash. I think it sticks out a bit too much and takes up too much space. I would rather have a more simple flat(ish) style CJ style dash. You could probably gain another 3-4" of room for the sleeping platform on the passenger side this way.

I'm a Toyota guys but built something sort of along the lines of what you are talking about I think. I have a
-1996 extended cab Tacoma
-3.4 V6 190 hp, 5spd
-dual cases with 4.7 gears
-1979 Ford Kingpin 60 front, 5.38 gears, ARB locker, cromoly axles hydro assist
-14 bolt rear, 5.38's, detroit, discs
-leaf sprung axles
-front and rear traction bars
-Warn XD9000
-home made bumpers and sliders
-42" Iroks on recentered H1's or 40"MTR's on H2's
-wheelbase shortened to 116 inches. 7 inches cut from front of bed, 13ish inches bobbed rear
-back of cab cut out, topper bobbed to match
-almost 7 feet inside from back of seats to tailgate plenty of room to sleep
-anywhere from 8mpg (wheeling) to 13 cruising pavement on the 40's
What I would do different is:
-89-95 Toyota extended cab to start with (stronger frame and cheaper initial purchase price)
-5.3 Chevy or maybe 3.4 Toyota with supercharger
-passenger side drop front axle (stronger Toyota cases) or Atlas 4 speed t-case
-probably 3 link the front
-for more expo stuff 37- 38 inch tires

 

[AmericaOverland]

-I don't really love the stock TJ dash. I think it sticks out a bit too much and takes up too much space. I would rather have a more simple flat(ish) style CJ style dash. You could probably gain another 3-4" of room for the sleeping platform on the passenger side this way.

If I had the money, I would do EXACTLY that.

 

[SpeedAddict502]

Are you still planning this?

 

[Metcalf]

Are you still planning this?

It's on the back burner for now. I have been playing with my little flat fender a lot more. It decided that it needed a new engine this winter.