Long Jeep.....chasing unicorns

[GP'd]

Can a few people get me a measurement or two?
I need a measurement from the bottom of the rocker to the ground near the front flare AND a measurement from the corner of the grill shell over the frame rail where the little rubber bumper mounts to the ground?

Can't measure the first due to boatsides, but I'll check the grill shell tomorrow. You are talking top of frame (Bottom of rubber bumper) to vertically above, top of grill shell? Having trouble picturing that.

<I may be misreading that>

 

[Metcalf]

Can't measure the first due to boatsides, but I'll check the grill shell tomorrow. You are talking top of frame (Bottom of rubber bumper) to vertically above, top of grill shell? Having trouble picturing that.

<I may be misreading that>

I need the measurements from the steel corner of the grill shell to the ground. I am basically looking at having more front frame kick by eliminating or shortening the rubber bumper significantly.

I basically need a matched pair of measurements to make the data work anything. Maybe I should change the measurement to the top of the froward body mounting pad? Then the rockers won't play into it?

 

[Metcalf]

I don't have anyone close by with a TJ or I'd go measure for you. I thought you'd have 10 posts with measurements by now.

Yeah, sometimes getting some data is the hard part. I may just have to wait to move forward with the final frame dimensions till I have a tub and front clip mocked up. Sometimes that is just how it goes. With the clearance being as tight as I want in this thing it might be better to just wait anyways. I do like being able to move forward a bit though....

 

[12husky]

My son's TJ is currently sitting in the driveway. I am not that familiar with Jeeps so if you put up a sample picture with trhe dimensions labeled that you want, I can get them for you tonight.

 

[Metcalf]

I've been digging into my np205 stuff for the Long Jeep. It looks like my plan is going to work out ok....

-I need to change the input to a TH400 style 32 spline short version. The ford is 31 spline. The bonus is that the ford 31-spline also used the same input bearing at the th400 version so I don't have to bore the case or anything. It is just a bolt in deal. The input is about $150ish.

http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/transfercaseparts.htm

or

http://www.northwestfab.com/Transfer-Case-Input-Shafts_c_74.html

-The Ford np205 also had the 32 spline front output shaft which is nice. That is the biggest strongest version you can get from the factory, same one that is in my dodge. The GM versions has some 10 or 30 spline parts. Any 32 spline yoke or flange will work on either output, and be the same part....win win

-Making a cable shifter looks like it would be fairly easy.....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/moto...in-stick-shifters-ford-gm-8.html#post16843345

The cables can be located in the little saddle created by the torque mount on the ford case. I imagine the tunnel can be a touch bigger in the area to accommodate them since it will have to go over the torque mount anyways. With enough time I will probably make my own cable shift. I can't see spending $300+ on an off the shelf unit.

-Rebuild kits are easy to find. A full version is about $200 with every bearing and seal.

http://www.northwestfab.com/NP205-Full-Rebuild-Kit-_p_48.html

-I am running a passenger drop T-case in passenger drop so I shouldn't have to worry about the shift rail seals like you would have in a flipped application.

-It looks like the np205 will fit in the frame width I have in mind. 32" center, 30" inside, 34" outside with a centered engine and transmission. I did some rough measurements last night and it looks just fine, not THAT much wider than an Atlas transfer case really. I won't be able to run the exhaust by the front output of the transfer case but that wasn't the plan anyways.

More later....

 

[Metcalf]

1st part in the garage!



This is going to be a LONG build but at it feels kinda neat to have something in the garage!

Now I just need to rebuild it, mod it, paint it, and find a transmission to hook it to!

 

[mbryson]

Cool !

 

[Nuclear Redneck]

Was Stone Soup one of your favorite stories growing up? I like your attitude!

 

[Metcalf]

Just a few odd and ends.....

-I would like to find room for a group 31 battery in the engine compartment. The lower the better. I suspect with highline fenders this will be harder than it sounds. Since I probably won't have a large YJ/CJ heater box that may open up some other options. I like having a little bit of an overkill battery with a winch on the front end. If the weight can be kept forward and low I don't think it will be worth it.

-Rear suspension. I have been working through some air bag stuff with a friend. With my expected sprung weight, I will be at the low end, basically falling off the charts, for information on spring rate, pressure, and weight capacity. It looks like the static height pressure will be 20-30psi maybe.

 

[GP'd]

Found these searching for something else. Based on your posts earlier, sounds like it may help a bit.

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

Metcalf,
I like the way you think too. It was a reminder of my own odyssey a generation ago. I'm one of the elders of the tribe here.
My first SOA was on a '49 Willys Ute Wagon/Chevy V-8, Studebaker O.D. 5.38's; broke almost every part on the the thing by the end of 1965. Yes, I'm a pedo viejo. However, to solve all those lip-smacking issues on a long jeep build, i settled on a CJ-8 as the best candidate for a build, as there were so many aftermarket parts available. And I did assemble a lot of aftermarket parts. Here's the rig and the build sheet:







Jefe's Scrambler as of 8/13.
1982 Jeep CJ-8, 105" W.B., desert sand and Nutmeg, by now all rattle can Sand. AGR power steering box and pump, MORE 1-1/2&#8221; forward steering box brackets, Chevy power discs front and Cadillac disc rear, removable 10 watt CB, Full Kayline Nutmeg soft top and full soft doors, windjammer, 1/2 doors and bikini top, custom soft cab top, custom rear tonnau cover, rear seat. The frame has been beefed up, gusseted, and patched over and over again.
ENGINE: built for torque. Peak torque: 1400 rpm. Pulls down to 300 rpm.
4.4L I-6 block and crank, with .060&#8221; overbore pistons and rings,
4.0L, High Output head with Mopar MPI fuel injection, Hesco adjustable fuel regulator
Hesco with gage. H-264-14 cam (.470&#8221; lift) and Cloyes double roller timing gears and chains advanced 4 degrees, High Volume oil pump,
stock &#8216;95 XJ exhaust header, 2.5&#8221; aluminized tubing, cat and12&#8221; glasspack.
hand throttle, MORE engine mounts.
2-5/8&#8221; AutoMeter gauges (0-4K tach, oil, temp, Volt, Vacuum)

DRIVETRAIN:
NP-435 (6.69.3.34/1.66/1.00/8.26) Adapter by Advance
clocked Dana 300 w/ 5 gear TeraLow 4:1 gears, and Currie twin sticks, Woods drive shafts w/ extra long splines, 6 bolt SuperWinch hubs, u-bolt style u-joints, 130:1 crawl Dana 44, 30 spline front, w/ARB, Warn 4330 ChroMoly shafts, ChroMoly steering-over rods with 1 ton TRE's, Parts Mike steering-over knuckles, CTM U-joints, 4.88:1 Dana 60, 35 spline rear w/ARB, Mosier H.D. shafts, 4.88:1. 4XDoctor pig cages

SUSPENSION:
Springs-Over-Axle w/ 6 leaf RE SOA 2-1/2&#8221; lift springs with front reverse shackles.. Rancho 9000 adjustable shocks. H.D. shackles. Extra long S.S. brake hoses.

OFF-ROAD OUTFITTING:
Fenders trimmed to clear 36-13.50-15 Super Swamper IROC's on Rock Crawler 10&#8221; wheels, and 37-13.50-16 TCL ProComp XTerrains on 8&#8221; wheels
Extra wide rubber fender lips. Currie steering brace and welded/over boxed front frame horns, Radiator saver. Stubby 'rockhugger' front bumper, Ford Mutt recovery &#8220;D&#8221; rings. roll cage, Wrecking Ball Proof custom rocker panels, "Off-Your-Rocker" steel rear diamond plate quarter panels, 24 gal. steel tank and steel skid plate, Premier Power underhood welder (180 amp alternator), welding outfit, 4&#8221; AC grinder, Premier 20 lb. CO2 Power Tank. Class III hidden receiver hitch/ pintel Usual extra parts taken: regulator, hubs, spare T. case, frnt/rr yokes/ u-joints, complete rr driveshaft, main leaf with eyes, bag &#8216;o NBW's, some metal plate, brackets, strap, angle. Enough tools.
RECOVERY EQUP: Warn #8274 Winch, 20' and 30' towstrap, tree saver, snatch block, 3 &#8220;D&#8221; rings, 20' hardened chain with slip hooks, 4' breaker bar, Safety Seal tire repair kit. 60&#8221; hi lift jack. 4 ton bottle jack. 2 ton sissor jack. 2 ton come along. High volume 12v compressor.

The weakest part of the build was the frame. It has been patched and gusseted many times when cracks appear. The drive train has been very good to me, even after rolling the thing maybe 10 times. The secret was more drivetrain than the engine could break. At one time I had a full hard top too, but like a fool I sold it along with the hard doors. I've been building it up for 25 years and I'm done. Other woes include too wide ratio a trans for hills. The distance between every gear is vast. Also, with 4.88's and no O.D. 60 mph on the highway is about it. That's why I trailer it now. I was thinking of putting a diesel in it when I bought it in '88, but alas the state of Calif. frowns upon that kind of transplant.
It's just an antique now but we did Shaver Lake, parts of the Ershim, Swamp Lake, Red and Coyote Lake last week and it was a champ on those washing machine sized boulders. Decades ago, we would drive the CJ8 to the camping venue and it had lots of space for stuff. No rubicon rack needed.
Previously, we had the Ute Wag., a 1966 FJ-40, a 1970 FJ-55 (chevy transplant), a 1980 Scout 3.3L turbo diesel Traveller (118" w.b.) the CJ8, a 2001.5 Dodge CTD, a 1990, 1989, and 1999 XJ, and now my wife's car is a 2011 Grand Chero Limited.
Good luck on your chase.
regards, as always, jefe

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

One more pic:

Of all the 'family camping' type rigs I've owned, my faves, in terms of being able to sleep in it were the Toyota FJ-55 as we had a tent boot made to fit over the tailgate (it looked like a stage coach back there) and we could sleep two adults with the back seat folded down in weather resistant comfort. And we did, camping high in the Sierras in the middle of winter. And the grand winner in terms of sleeping space was the Traveller with it's 118" W.B. full hard top, Nissan diesel engine, T-19, all syncho truck trans, Dana 300 Texas pattern, and Dana 44's with track locs all around. We did yet another SOA on it and ran the Rubicon many times. I hope to have some pics extracted from slides to digital so you can see what your fore fathers did. Just some more ideas for your 'long jeep project'.
jefe

 

[Metcalf]

Nice! thanks for the input.

Honestly, I have been working on a design that doesn't use a tub lately. Basically a buggy with a body ( panels ) that would allow using a top, doors, heater, windshield, etc.

Basically, its me being 'thrifty' to get around having to pay $4000+ for a tub.

Still just in the design and idea phase though. I am trying to avoid committing to full build this winter.

 

[mbryson]

Nice! thanks for the input.

Honestly, I have been working on a design that doesn't use a tub lately. Basically a buggy with a body ( panels ) that would allow using a top, doors, heater, windshield, etc.

Basically, its me being 'thrifty' to get around having to pay $4000+ for a tub.

Still just in the design and idea phase though. I am trying to avoid committing to full build this winter.

Like even more Basically a UROC type "Legends class" rig circa 2004-05 or so with streetability

 

[Metcalf]

Like even more Basically a UROC type "Legends class" rig circa 2004-05 or so with streetability

Think along the lines of the car that Campbell built for Walker Evans....buggy with full body panels.

I think I would just use some CJ7/YJ panels since you can get all that new and for a decent price. The last time I added it up the cowl, side panels, and corners where only about $850 total. The CJ stuff does admittedly have the easiest windshield/wiper/defrost system. I would have to give up on being able to sleep inside the vehicle most likely with the shorter cabin area. Sure. I could make it longer but that gets opens up another Pandora box of modification as far as the top/tub/doors stuff goes. I don't know. I am very torn on how serious of a vehicle I want to chase. One part of me wants to get on the HARD stuff in my area......Farmington, Moab, Monstrose, Grand Junction, etc. The other part is getting older and wants something that can go down the road with a top, doors, a heater, etc.

You don't see too many total space frame rock buggies with full bodies.....