Looking at a new Dodge, help me decide!!! (Power Wagon vs Cummins)

[redthies]

Wow. Cummins in the lead, but bacon has tied with PowerWagon! Just to mix it up, since you are looking at ST trucks, why not buy a regular 2500/3500 Hemi, and get the dealer to install ARB lockers and a winch? I'm sure you could do that for less than the cost of the PW, and you would not pay the premium price for the name, or fuel economy hit that the PW has with its 4.56s.

 

[Monterorider]

4.56 have little effect on fuel economy. They actually help if you run larger tires. PW is quite a bit more than just 2 lockers lockers and a winch on regular 2500. If you try to bring regular 2500 up to PW level you'd be better off buying new one.

 

[thebrassnuckles]

Go power wagon. All the way. I wish I'd have bought a PW. I ended up with a 1500 hemi.

 

[Murfman]

I have a somewhat biased opinion as I have has terrible luck with a Cummins. I had a 1999 24 Valve that lost 3 lift pumps, 2 injection pumps, and a cracked block. The only mods were a BHAF, 4" exhaust, and an edge (never pierced the wire). It was a great truck when it ran but no matter what anyone says the Cummins will eventually need repairs and those repairs are very pricey compared to a gas motor. Funny thing is thus auto trans in my cummins was still original and untouched At 175,000 miles. I sold the truck at 150,000 miles and bought it from the original owner at 120,000 over the 30,000 miles I owned it it was well over 10,000 in repairs. The Power Wagon gets my vote hands down. I have a set of Power Wagon axles under my current 99 Ram V-10 QCSB and they are hella stout. I personally would never buy a truck new but that is just me. If you decide to order one check out the expanded color availability on the ST models from Ram. You can get 4 different shades of yellow, a sublime green, even national fire safety yellow/green, John Deer green, Case red etc...

Two other things that may or may not be a factor for you:
Diesel availability near you, it is not bad for me, but not all stations especially in more urban areas don't carry diesel and many that do have old stale fuel with a lot of moisture just because they don't sell a lot. I have been driving for 30 years and the only 2 times I've had bad fuel have both been diesel.

The other is weather if the truck does not get driven a lot there is a good chance of getting gelling due to summer fuel still being in the tank when you get an early freeze late fall or early winter.

With gas being 70 to 90 cents a gallon cheaper, combined
with the extra maintenance costs of a diesel the gasser is an obvious choice.

You can always add a CAI, Cat back and tuner to the Hemi as well. They really respond well to bolt on mods. If that is still not enough you can add a supercharger

 

[leelikesbikes]

regular 2500

i agree that if you but a regular 2500 and add the stuff that you want or need you can get something customized just how you want it. i wanted a standard cab 8' box because the longbox is really nice for dirtbikes or a camper, but the wheelbase of a crew longbox is too long. i looked at some std cab powerwagons and decided i could build my own for cheaper. the carli suspension is much better than the powerwagon suspension for going fast. yeah youll have to fab a gastank and t-case skid, but you can put all the parts on it that YOU want. if you dont need something brand new with a warranty you can get a year or two old 2500 hemi with low miles and set it up just the way you like for way less than a new PW

 

[Colby Jack]

Been there. Done That. Drank the Koolaid.

For the majority of people, the Cummins is unnecessary. Diesel fuel is more expensive. Don't believe the hype on fuel economy. It's simply not true. That motor is a pulling machine!!! I love that aspect of it, but the rest of the time I drive my truck, it feels luggy. These Cummins eat front end parts for lunch. Don't believe me, just head over to Cummins Forum, or the like, and read on ball joint failures, track bar failures, etc. Dodge uses the same frame between gas and diesel motors, even though the Cummins is a good 500# more than the hemi.

I myself am looking for an older Power Wagon (06) that I can move my accessories over to-- camper shell, ladder rack, running boards, fender flares, etc. In my opinion, the amount of off road goodies that are standard, and covered under warranty(!!!!!) on the PW are far more useful. Just look at the options available for both trucks side by side-- one truck has one thing, the Cummins. The other truck has more like 8, and some of those awesome parts can't be added to another rig (Smart bar).

And don't ignore the fact that performance tuners used to wake the Cummins up, have been locked down by the EPA.

Hope that helps. I regret buying a new Cummins. Should have just looked harder for the '98 long bed I really wanted.

 

[RU55ELL]

Another thing to think about is the additional maintenance cost of the Cummins. Fuel filter has to be changed frequently, oil change is about double of a regular oil change, IIRC. Fuel costs more, etc.

 

[my1stcummins]

I've always wanted a big truck and loved the Cummins, but if I was to do it again, i'm not sure i'd go diesel. My thoughts of going diesel over gas were longevity, mileage and multi-fuel capabilities, but in the end I'm not sure it is worth it. It's a heavy beast off road although it is a blast to drive with all that power. I've rebuilt the front end of mine as preventative maintenance and gone with locking hub conversion. My truck will last forever. The tranny issues are with people that abuse and overpower their trucks. The 48re will last with good maintenance and a few cheap mods.

I do still love the rig, but sometimes a nice quiet gas motor with a little less power wouldn't be a bad thing. I tow once or twice a year, so it wasn't really a need based decision for me but when I tow lordy lordy is it sweet. I drive F250's at work, and they are thirsty slow gas pigs, chevy's fall apart up here (oil sands of Alberta) and as nice as they are on the highway I wouldn't want one for off road use. Now that it's paid off, I plan to keep this pickup forever so the Cummins should be a good mill to have. Dodge all the way.

 

[Murfman]

IMHO diesels today are like gassers in the 70s and 80s grappling with the EPA regulations and changing every year. Personally I'd wait another 4 or 5 years for everything to even out.

 

[oldestof11]

I have a somewhat biased opinion as I have has terrible luck with a Cummins. I had a 1999 24 Valve that lost 3 lift pumps, 2 injection pumps, and a cracked block. The only mods were a BHAF, 4" exhaust, and an edge (never pierced the wire). It was a great truck when it ran but no matter what anyone says the Cummins will eventually need repairs and those repairs are very pricey compared to a gas motor. Funny thing is thus auto trans in my cummins was still original and untouched At 175,000 miles. I sold the truck at 150,000 miles and bought it from the original owner at 120,000 over the 30,000 miles I owned it it was well over 10,000 in repairs. The Power Wagon gets my vote hands down. I have a set of Power Wagon axles under my current 99 Ram V-10 QCSB and they are hella stout. I personally would never buy a truck new but that is just me. If you decide to order one check out the expanded color availability on the ST models from Ram. You can get 4 different shades of yellow, a sublime green, even national fire safety yellow/green, John Deer green, Case red etc...

Two other things that may or may not be a factor for you:
Diesel availability near you, it is not bad for me, but not all stations especially in more urban areas don't carry diesel and many that do have old stale fuel with a lot of moisture just because they don't sell a lot. I have been driving for 30 years and the only 2 times I've had bad fuel have both been diesel.

The other is weather if the truck does not get driven a lot there is a good chance of getting gelling due to summer fuel still being in the tank when you get an early freeze late fall or early winter.

With gas being 70 to 90 cents a gallon cheaper, combined
with the extra maintenance costs of a diesel the gasser is an obvious choice.

You can always add a CAI, Cat back and tuner to the Hemi as well. They really respond well to bolt on mods. If that is still not enough you can add a supercharger

The VP44 equipped trucks are notorious for this. That would be the 2nd Gen 24v Cummins.

Been there. Done That. Drank the Koolaid.

For the majority of people, the Cummins is unnecessary. Diesel fuel is more expensive. Don't believe the hype on fuel economy. It's simply not true. That motor is a pulling machine!!! I love that aspect of it, but the rest of the time I drive my truck, it feels luggy. These Cummins eat front end parts for lunch. Don't believe me, just head over to Cummins Forum, or the like, and read on ball joint failures, track bar failures, etc. Dodge uses the same frame between gas and diesel motors, even though the Cummins is a good 500# more than the hemi.

And don't ignore the fact that performance tuners used to wake the Cummins up, have been locked down by the EPA.

Hope that helps. I regret buying a new Cummins. Should have just looked harder for the '98 long bed I really wanted.

I got 23.xx mpg with worn MT 33x12.5's on a 500 mile trip. Hand calculated. Around town on my way to work (15 miles) I got 15ish with winter blend and 17-18ish with summer. I have mine modded too.

Only tuner's are being hit up right now for selling to 2007.5 and newer trucks.

 

[Murfman]

The VP44 equipped trucks are notorious for this. That would be the 2nd Gen 24v Cummins.



I got 23.xx mpg with worn MT 33x12.5's on a 500 mile trip. Hand calculated. Around town on my way to work (15 miles) I got 15ish with winter blend and 17-18ish with summer. I have mine modded too.

Only tuner's are being hit up right now for selling to 2007.5 and newer trucks.

I agree that the first gen trucks could get low even mid 20s for MPG but no way in hell you are gonna get that with a 2012 / 2013 Cummins A friend has one that he DDs as well as hauls his 24' enclosed trailer with a 2200 Lb drag car in he gets 14 driving around town and 11-12 towing. Hell My 1999 V-10 gets 10-11 towing the same trailer.

And as for the Tuners the OP is looking at a new truck so that is squarely in line with the tuner problem.

 

[Colby Jack]

:iagree:
What he said. First gen-- Awesome mpg, but they have gotten worse every year. And don't forget that although the Urea addition will increase mileage, now you have one more thing to add to your truck-- Urea. Cost of ownership blows. Oil changes are painful.

 

[87GMCJimmy]

Diesel availability is no problem here. I've had a diesel before (07 Classic Silverado 2500HD) and loved it, only regrets were that it was an extended cab instead of a crew cab and that it had IFS.

To be quite honest, diesel is by far my motor preference, I freakin love diesels. BUT: I can't afford to outfit a diesel to Power Wagon specs, also I am concerned about the trail capability of the Cummins due to the 1000lbs more weight in the nose! (OH, nother note: if I buy diesel, it's 2012 all the way, I do NOT wanna hafta mess with cat piss, LOL! (Don't want 2013 Urea system))

Plans for the truck (either one):
3" lift (likely Carli starter kit but, upgraded with control arms, trackbar, and maybe flexy springs. I am open to other suggestions though!)
37" tires (looking at Toyo Open Country mud terrains) on stock wheels (once again, open to suggestions)
Rocksliders (likely Aluminess, but if anybody knows of other options to check out, lemme know!)
Some kind of speedo correction, anybody know of a cheap recalibrator for tire size? (kinda like the AEV ProCal for JKs?)

The Power Wagon's 4.56 gears are nice for 37s as it's just like putting 265/75R16 tires on a 3.73 geared Hemi Ram. (in terms of tire size vs gear ratio) If I were to go with the diesel, I'd have to swap ARB lockers in front and rear and regear.

Towing- I don't see myself needing more than the 10,800lb rating of the Power Wagon BUT, I do know the diesel would pull that load easier. I wish the Power Wagon had a higher payload rating though, it is only rated at 1,880lbs.

On the topic of a used truck, I'd rather buy new. I looked for a used truck for months with no success. The few trucks I found that I liked either got sold before I got to them or the owner decided to keep in one case, LOL!

Thanks for all the opinions and advice y'all! Keep it coming!

 

[4D55 Performance]

The Cummins is amazing, but the Power Wagon is special. Cummins trucks are a dime a dozen and the don't get my juices flowing when I see one. When I see a Power Wagon I know that the person who owns this truck uses it and pushes it to its limits. I admire the power Wagon owns more than any vehicle owner because they are not posers.

 

[Murfman]

The payload of the Power Wagon is lower only because of the springs, which you will be replacing anyway. For suspension, Carli makes great stuff, but I'd also check out Don Thuren He did the shocks (Kings) on my 99 and really knows his stuff. Check out Dodgetrucksxtreme dot com for more suspension info there is a ton of info on that board. As for recalibrating the speedo, A diablo sport tuner has that capability, along with letting you tune the Hemi, non sure if they are out yet for the 2012 trucks but I'm sure they are on their way if not. Search for Hemituner, or Johan they are both on a few boards and can write custom tunes for you as well. Johan did my 2005 GCSRT-8 with a 392 stroker big cam etc.. and it purrs like a kitten and roars like a lion.

Honestly you can't go wrong with either truck, it just depends on what you are doing with it. If you are towing every weekend I'd go with the Cummins if you are towing once a month or less I'd go Power Wagon.