Looking to buy a Trooper-what to look for

[4D55 Performance]

Montero - I have owned a number of Mitsubishis and I can not recommend this brand. Too many stupid issues sideline these vehicles. When you do need that odd ball part the dealership never had it in stock, and they wanted a small fortune for it as Mitsubishi seems to make small changes randomly to the vehicles. You will find very poor interchange between different years if it is anything like their cars. I hear a few people compare them to Isuzu vehicles, but the simple fact is I have never seen a Montero on a trail.



-Wayne

It is clear you have never owned a Montero and know nothing about them. Your comments make you look uneducated and biased toward the vehicle you own. If you owned a Montero you would quickly realize how cheap they are to keep running and parts are readily available. Parts interchange is amazing and better or as good as any brand I have ever worked with. The 3.0 and 3.5 motors are extremely common. The transmission is a common Aisin unit that can be found on the Grand Cherokee and it is compatible with aftermarket T-Cases like the NP231. The IFS is capable of running 35" tires with out worries of breakage. It could be argued that the Montero is the most reliable vehicle ever made. It won the Dakar Rally a record 12 times and most of those were back when the vehicles were required to race in stock form.

To compare the Montero to a Trooper is not a fair fight. The Montero is a flagship 7 passenger SUV like the Land Cruiser. The Trooper is more on par with Montero Sport, Pathfinder, Cherokee, 4 runner and explorer which are 5 passenger and more entry level SUV's. If you can't tell the difference that's okay. But the interior of a Montero and Landcruiser is closer to that of a Mercedes than that of an Isuzu. It's a harsh reality but it is true. While the Montero is not a great rock crawler and power is lacking, it excels in every other way. If I had to travel the world it would be on my short list along with the Mercedes G Class, FJ80 and Defender 110.

If BBslider101 is looking at getting a vehicle, help him out as best you can, but don't feed him misinformation about a vehicle you know nothing about. Even you yourself said you have never seen one on the trail, so how would you know what it's capabilities are?

 

[rotozuk]

Whatever.. I think we all know what you are about.

 

[4D55 Performance]

Whatever.. I think we all know what you are about.

You seem knowledgeable about the Trooper and have provided useful information, but I recommend in the future that you not provide misinformation about vehicle you know nothing about. Just remember, it's not personal. Just trying to provide the best info possible.

Personally I think the Troopers are unique and cool vehicles, but Isuzus come with there own set of quirks. The first 3 4x4's I ever owned were Isuzus. I liked them because they were different and I did not see them everywhere on the trail. The main issue I had with them was rust. They just seemed to be more prone to rust that your average vehicle. By the mid 90's Isuzu seemed to solve this issue by using better steel and using undercoating. I will try to post some pics of me and my little Isuzu rust buckets. It would be a good reminder of my humble beginnings.

Also did I mention, It's not personal.

 

[SRN]

1) What are the best years? Seems that 92-97 with a 3.2 and manual transmission are the best combo?

Opinions vary, but when I went looking for one I stuck with the 2nd generation ones (92-97) because of the 3.2. The auto vs. manual transmission is a regular debate. I've heard lots of people talk about how the auto in these are weak, but I've known a number of people who wheel their Troopers regularly with an auto and have had no issues. That said, you look for used ones and one of the common issues you see listed is that the tranny is slipping or reverse isn't working. I guess it’s a roll of the dice, but regular maintenance will keep anything going, right?
I went with a manual because I just don’t like driving auto’s in any vehicle.

2) Is 92-97 the best generation?

The 2nd and “3rd” generations are very, very similar. Basically the 98+ is more of a refresh of the second than it is a whole new generation. Motor changed and the rear axle changed slightly and they added some aesthetic changes, but the chassis is the same. The 3.2L in the 92-97’s is generally considered to be the best motor, though.

3) What to look for as far as weak points?

Frame rust is often pretty bad on these (depending on where you live), so look at that. The Auto tranny stuff mentioned before. I’ve come across quite a few that have leaks in hydraulic clutch system on manuals (easy to fix). All 3.2L’s have a tendency to tick, so don’t be too alarmed by that. My understanding is that it is old oil stuck on top of the lifters. Some seafoam and a few oil changes with some T6 synthetic (or similar) will cure that. Other than that, just normal used car stuff. They are, all in all, pretty stout vehicles.

Try to find one with a factory limited slip differential in the rear. The code to look for on the firewall plaque is G80 (or just spin the rear wheels in the air). The factory LSD is awesome and locks up tight. For the kind of wheeling it sounds like you want to do it would serve you well.

I know there are the 2.3, 2.6, 3.2, and 3.5 (?) engines. It seems there are some issues with head gaskets, but not sure which models, if not all.

On the 2nd and 3rd gen you only have the 3.2L and 3.5L. I’ve heard lots of people talk about the early 3.5L burning oil, but have no experience. Not sure about issues on 1st gen motors.

I won't get an automatic since I keep seeing that these can be less reliable. I want to get the best mpg possible.

See previous comment on reliability. You will definitely get better MPG out of a manual. I get about 18 mpg out of mine.

This will be my DD, some mild off-roading, and light expedition/camping vehicle for the family.

I think you’ll be happy with a Trooper. This is exactly what I got mine for and have nothing but praise for it. Big enough to fit everything that I would want to bring. Comfortable. Quite capable off-road in basically stock form, all I’ve added is a 2” OME lift and tires. I think that the 2nd gen Trooper is the best bang for your buck for this kind of off-roading.

 

[Storz]

Great info guys, if all goes as planned I am picking up a '94 5spd in a couple weeks

 

[SRN]

It is clear you have never owned a Montero and know nothing about them. Your comments make you look uneducated and biased toward the vehicle you own.

Hello, kettle?

If you owned a Montero you would quickly realize how cheap they are to keep running and parts are readily available. Parts interchange is amazing and better or as good as any brand I have ever worked with.

Cost and ease is relative, isn’t it? Your fanaticism for the Montero make it seem simple, but someone unfamiliar may find it somewhat daunting.

The 3.0 and 3.5 motors are extremely common. The transmission is a common Aisin unit that can be found on the Grand Cherokee and it is compatible with aftermarket T-Cases like the NP231. The IFS is capable of running 35" tires with out worries of breakage.

To say that the stock IFS set up can run 35” tires without worry of breakage is misleading, to say the least. Yes, you can run 35” tires stock on a Montero, but you are increasing the unsprung weight on the suspension that was never designed to handle that. Can it? Sure. Without worries of breakage? Nope.

It could be argued that the Montero is the most reliable vehicle ever made.

It could be argued that the Trabant was the greatest vehicle ever made. It’d be a hard sell, but you could certainly argue that point.
As with any vehicle, it comes down to maintenance. If you take care of it, it will take care of you. That said, I’ve never come across a Montero that has not had some sort of issue, generally related to the motor. What happened to your Montero right after you sold it? Head gasket blew, right? That’s a pretty common issue as far as I’ve seen.

It won the Dakar Rally a record 12 times and most of those were back when the vehicles were required to race in stock form.

You clearly are not a follower of the Dakar. There is only one of those years that the Pajero would have been considered “close” to stock. 1985. The other 11 wins (92-93, 97-98, 01-07) were all in highly customized vehicles, often buggies with just a body that resembled a Pajero.

To compare the Montero to a Trooper is not a fair fight. The Montero is a flagship 7 passenger SUV like the Land Cruiser. The Trooper is more on par with Montero Sport, Pathfinder, Cherokee, 4 runner and explorer which are 5 passenger and more entry level SUV's. If you can't tell the difference that's okay. But the interior of a Montero and Landcruiser is closer to that of a Mercedes than that of an Isuzu. It's a harsh reality but it is true.

It is clear you have never owned a Trooper and know nothing about them. Your comments make you look uneducated and biased toward the vehicle you own.

2nd and 3rd generation Troopers all had the option for 3rd row seating. The Trooper was the flagship vehicle of the Isuzu line and is often compared directly to the 80-series Land Cruiser it was designed to compete against. The Rodeo was Isuzu’s entry level SUV during that era. The Trooper was positioned squarely at the top end of the segment. I’ve been in many a Montero, and many a Land Cruiser from the 90’s and I would say that a Trooper is every bit as well accoutremented as either of those. Sorry, but that’s the harsh reality. Perhaps you should do some more research before spouting off opinions as fact.

If BBslider101 is looking at getting a vehicle, help him out as best you can, but don't feed him misinformation about a vehicle you know nothing about.

Right back at you, buddy!

You seem knowledgeable about the Trooper and have provided useful information, but I recommend in the future that you not provide misinformation about vehicle you know nothing about. Just remember, it's not personal. Just trying to provide the best info possible.

I recommend in the future that you not provide misinformation about a vehicle you know nothing about. Just remember, it's not personal. Just try to provide the best info possible.

 

[tonnydoodles]

I own two 99 troopers, one auto, one manual, both trucks spent most of their lives in Connecticut, and no rust at all, Isuzu had rust issues with rodeos not with troopers, as far as the 3.5 goes maintenance and common sense goes a long way, use the right oil, change your pcv valve regularly, keep the egr valve and it's passages clean and do a seafoam treatment every other oil change and you be fine, the 3.5 mated to an manual is hard to beat, and the auto if well maintened will last a long time, also a tranny cooler goes a long way even if you don't tow with the truck, good luck on your search.

 

[rotozuk]

SRN - Thanks for backing me up.

I have 2 '99s and one of them spent some time in Colorado and has pretty bad rust on the underside, but the frame and other structural items all looks really good, but the bolts and little brackets and such are horrible. Maybe Isuzu treated the frames but not the little stuff?

I love my 3.5 liter motors. Good power, and they sing when you let them rev up. But than again, I loved the 3.2 in the Rodeo Sports too. Any of the Isuzu V6 motors are fun with a 5 speed behind them. I debated using this motor and 5 speed trans in a buggy project with dual Toyota t-cases. Would be a nice combo.

Anyhow, good luck with your purchase! I'm sure you will be happy. Don't be affraid to spend a little money getting the vehicle into tip top shape, it will reward you with many years of fun!

-Wayne

 

[BBslider001]

Ok, I am going to look at this one Tuesday. It is about 2 hours from me and looks to be pretty cool for the price. Please give any and all honest input you can. Thanks!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290850265116

 

[BBslider001]

I think you well do well with any generation that has not been neglected. Finding the older vehicles that have not been neglected is actually harder. I have what you are calling a third generation, and they are easier to find with lower miles and recent services. They do not have head gasket issues (that was the first gen 2.6 that had those issues). The 3.2 and 3.5 liter motors are pretty good except many use a lot of oil. This high oil consumption usually leads to an early death as they end up being driven without sufficient oil. My white '99 uses 1 quart every 1500 miles, that is considered good by many! My Black '99 uses no oil between changes. The white motor makes much better power as it has been regularly serviced, the black motor appears to have seen very little service, original rubber, etc. and lacks power and gets horrible fuel economy.

I stress that it is important to see some signs of maintenance on the vehicle. Keep in mind that a timing belt change gets pretty expensive on these motors, so make sure it has already been done, otherwise seek a discount in purchase price. My mechanic quoted me about $1300 to do the needed service items on the black trooper! (Using OEM parts - water pump, timing belt and parts, t-stat (t-stat is stuck open)) When we are talking about a $2000 - $4000 vehicle that is a lot of money. (I was going to make these repairs myself, but these parts all add up.)

Also, I'd look for oil leaks and rust under the vehicle. My Black Trooper simply is a great example of what not to buy. It leaks from the engine, trans, t-case and both diffs! The rust is so bad that I do not dare to adjust the e-brake, etc. as it will simply break rather than turn. My white Trooper is rust free, and weeps a bit from the rear axle, otherwise is nearly new underneath.

If it has a sun roof, they tend to get a little rust up on the edges on the roof.

That is about all I can think of.

Make sure you put it into 4x4 mode and listen for any noises while driving.

-Wayne

Wayne, This was really helpful. It sounds like most of the normal when purchasing any vehicle. I do most work myself, but with being a full time student, I just don't have time to be doing a restoration right now. Small weekend stuff doesn't bother me though. Thanks again and I'll keep ya posted. please check out the one I found on Ebay in the previous post.

 

[BigSwede]

Rust is the greatest enemy of first gens, but in California you should be OK there. Second greatest enemy is overheating, spend the money needed to keep it cool, replace the radiator if necessary. Other than that, not much to worry about beyond the usual when buying an older vehicle. An 88 will have stronger axles than the older first gens, which is nice.

 

[rotozuk]

Hmm, I would go inspect the car. The ad does not say it is a runner. The non-registration for a "long time" is also very troubling, it may cost a LOT of money to register it in California. (I recall that after 7 years DMV waves the back registration, but double check for sure!) It shows signs of being owned by a kid. (Junky stereo wiring and random red paint scattered here and there on the vehicle.)

If you check it out and like it, I'd hope you can get it for less than the $900 they are asking. I suspect the tires are going to be dry rotted, dead battery, bad fuel. etc. It may have been parked for a reason. If it has the 2.6l, a very common issue if warped heads. This can cost a fair bit to fix as the parts are rare.

You might be better off finding a nicer example in your local area. Even if they are asking a higher price, you can always offer less. I don't think there are a lot of buyers for the first gens these days, so the seller may be tired of waiting for a buyer. hint hint.

It is simply hard to tell much from that ad. Good luck, and let us know what you think.

-Wayne

p.s. You may want to take a test drive in a good example in your local area so you have a baseline of what to expect. I'm guessing this ebay Troope is not in your area..?

 

[BBslider001]

Hmm, I would go inspect the car. The ad does not say it is a runner. The non-registration for a "long time" is also very troubling, it may cost a LOT of money to register it in California. (I recall that after 7 years DMV waves the back registration, but double check for sure!) It shows signs of being owned by a kid. (Junky stereo wiring and random red paint scattered here and there on the vehicle.)

If you check it out and like it, I'd hope you can get it for less than the $900 they are asking. I suspect the tires are going to be dry rotted, dead battery, bad fuel. etc. It may have been parked for a reason. If it has the 2.6l, a very common issue if warped heads. This can cost a fair bit to fix as the parts are rare.

You might be better off finding a nicer example in your local area. Even if they are asking a higher price, you can always offer less. I don't think there are a lot of buyers for the first gens these days, so the seller may be tired of waiting for a buyer. hint hint.

It is simply hard to tell much from that ad. Good luck, and let us know what you think.

-Wayne

p.s. You may want to take a test drive in a good example in your local area so you have a baseline of what to expect. I'm guessing this ebay Troope is not in your area..?

Yeah Wayne, I decided to pass on it. It is about 90 minutes from me, but I told the seller it would have to be smogged before I would even look at it. Being CA, that is what is legal and that will tell me if and how it runs. The person emailed me and said it has not been registered since 2008 and they drove it to Washington last year so "should" pass smog. That is a big no for me. Now if they tell me it passed and is running, I'd offer maybe $700 on it. I am not holding my breath at this point since I ahve not even heard back since telling them to smog it.

 

[rotozuk]

I was thinking about your Trooper today.. LOL

I'm thinking for a few hundred dollars more than this one might cost you, you may be able to get a much nicer example. heck, just a set of new tires could set you back $600 or so.

A vehicle in better condition may cost a few hundred more, but might save you a lot more in the long run!

My last 2 Troopers are both the same year. One was a rusted wreck I should have run away from. It needs all engine rubber replaced, t-stat, etc. (about $1300 worth or parts and labor) For $200 more I bought a rust free Trooper with 40,000 less miles, and in very good condition with a full maintenance history. No real issues at all. I'm kicking myself for buying the rust bucket..

Keep your eyes open, you will find your perfect vehicle!!

-Wayne

 

[Cat Jockey]

Just to chime in a bit ...

I'll never buy a trooper. Here's why: Harken back to somewhere around 93'-95' I was driving through an intersection in a brand new Trooper at 45mph and the back end got real, real, squirrely. Like jacked out sideways. Took some driving to keep it under control. Imagine your average intersection in the US in a mid to large sized city. Two roads intersect, both asphalt. Both are four lanes (two each way) - just your average intersection. East to west had a speed limit of 40, north to south at 45 mph. Nothing major. It was, however, one of those intersections where there were grooves, where the east-west traffic wore down the typical tire tracks you see in asphalt. I went across those normal asphalt tire track grooves at 45mph in Trooper of that era. The *** end swung out and I about lost control.

Yup, a Trooper almost lost control on asphalt washboard.

It was the exact same thing you get when driving high speeds on washboard. I don't know about the rest of the world, but if you don't like washboard, stay off of dirt roads in Colorado. Driving 50mph down washboard can roll a vehicle in a heartbeat. Driving through a relatively normal intersection, with some admittedly bigger tire tracks then normal, at 45mph, about launched a Trooper out of control, just like hauin' ******** on washboard.

No thank you.

You want a Trooper type rig? Buy a Landcruiser. Toyota made their name in the 80's. I want a Unimog, for sure, but Yotas are THE ultimate expedition vehicle. I don't know about these Tacomas and $40,000 Yotas, but you get yourself a straight axle Yota truck or an IFS from the 90's or a Landcrusier and they are the ultimate expo-rig. Deisels are sweet and all, but the 22RE is a 200-300 thousand mile motor.

No Troopers for me. It can't handle the washboard of a normal asphalt intersection. If I were to ever go that size for an expo, Yota, all the way. A Yota will run circles around a Trooper. Or LandRover.

Nothing compares, as far as US availble rigs in that size, to a Toyota. Period. Landcruiser or pickup. Each one will make the Trooper look foolish.

Don't mean to offend Isuzu owners, just tellin' it like it is. There is but one king of the hill when it comes to Japanese made expo rigs. The name of that King is Toyota. Don't even F with anything else.

Not trying to offend Trooper Owners, just my opinion. Hell, I can make a Subaru Justy into an expo vehicle, and can do the same with a Trooper - I just would not choose a Trooper to do so. You live in America? Your best option for Japanese import expo vehicles is either a Land Cruiser or a late 80's to late 90's pickup.

Period.

Not trying to offend Trooper owners, they will go places, for sure, but, for an expo rig, you are better off with a LandCruiser. And better off with a Yota Pickup with a shell.

Sorry. A Yota will kick an Isuzu's *** any day of the week. Go to Moab. Tell me how many Isuzu's you see there. Tell me how many Yotas. If you cannot afford a Land Cruiser, get a truck.