Dave Legacy
Adventurer
DWEB at it's finest... Not cool.
LR3 - LR4 Resources
- Thread starter Scott Brady
- Start date
DWEB at it's finest... Not cool.
Snagger
Explorer
Before you get a D3, look into costs of some basic service jobs; replacing the clutch requires removal of the entire body shell, so is not a field repairable item and will cost well over £1000 to have done by a non-franchised specialist and twice that by a franchised workshop.
They are incredibly competent vehicles when everything is working well, but they are not designed for robustness, reliability or fixibility. I wouldn't touch one out of warranty period for domestic use and would ever consider one for remote use like expeditions. personally, i think LR have lost their way.
They are incredibly competent vehicles when everything is working well, but they are not designed for robustness, reliability or fixibility. I wouldn't touch one out of warranty period for domestic use and would ever consider one for remote use like expeditions. personally, i think LR have lost their way.
Dave Legacy
Adventurer
We only have automatics in the States, so no clutch replacements, and brakes appear to be a pretty routine job for DIY'ers. Even stuff like the compressors can be swapped without diagnostic equipment. It seems that routine maintenance and basic repairs are doable, but then you get stuck with the silly service indicator that need reset or software updates. Frequent alignments too.
I can tell you that brake light bulbs are about $8/each as I'm at LR picking up a pair right now. =)
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nwoods
Expedition Leader
Welding might be a bit extreme, moving the wire takes only a minute and is easy to do.
http://lr3tips.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/bigger-tires-move-this-wire/
Dave Legacy
Adventurer
Yup, pretty easy to get it out of the way. The previous owner of mine didn't relocate it and there was a little wear on the plastic covering.
Jwestpro
Explorer
RR has slight advantage due to platform design that results in higher overall continuous ground clearance, primarily under the rear diff. This is obvious when looking at the back of an lr3 and seeing the very low hanging diff and exhaust routing.
RR also has the benefit of looking much cooler
Here's my lr3. As you can see, it is NOT necessary to use either spacers or the shortened suspension sensor rod modification to attain maximum usable suspension height. You simply have to induce the "extended mode" in the suspension electronics. Once achieved, it is obvious there is little to no more height available in the suspension design.
Adding any permanent height to this suspension without also redesigning the other suspension components will only result in worse handling anywhere that you are not moving slowly. It also adds stress to an already complex suspension design.
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Jwestpro
Explorer
I do think it is unfortunate and annoying that the designers did not allow for the driver to manually engage the full range of the suspension height, at least up to 10mph or similar.
For example, the VW Touareg, also on an air suspension with similar set up in terms of "normal ride height" at speed, lowest for short garage, and "raised" for offroad. These changes are quite similar in vehicle height change per setting position.
However, it also allows for an additional bump upwards to gain a total of 12" continuous clearance (when riding on 31.5" BFG AT tires, coincidentally the same maximum tire size the lr3 can take before starting rubbing issues at various angles and wheel turns, and articulation points) Granted, the lr3 when in extended mode is lower at the rear diff but the rest of the underside is roughly 14" above ground so it is overall better in the clearance aspect of course.
On the Touareg (with air suspensions) this 12" clearance is throughout the entire length of the underside including the rear diff where the lr3 hangs considerably lower. So, when in this maximum raised setting, you can feel the ends of the suspension "travel" reached, just like when the lr3 is "induced" to it's own maximum.
For those of you who have no idea how one "induces" the lr3, RR, RRS, and I assume lr4, into this upper level, it's actually quite simple. It will occur "naturally" if in a situation where the vehicle suspension (pressure/force sensor settings I presume) become aware of less pressure on the wheels, meaning, you are stuck or becoming high centered, too tall a break over, etc.
But who wants to wait until they are almost stuck to have the full height clearance available? A little momentum and all you have on tap is what I want. Simply placing a jack stand snug up under the sill when in "lifted" mode, then lower the suspension on said stand, the vehicle will raise itself higher than the "off road" setting into the "extended" height.
It's pretty cool and requires no rods, spacers, or reduced safety on the highway. Nor does it result in constant extra stress to the overall system by running those alterations.
For example, the VW Touareg, also on an air suspension with similar set up in terms of "normal ride height" at speed, lowest for short garage, and "raised" for offroad. These changes are quite similar in vehicle height change per setting position.
However, it also allows for an additional bump upwards to gain a total of 12" continuous clearance (when riding on 31.5" BFG AT tires, coincidentally the same maximum tire size the lr3 can take before starting rubbing issues at various angles and wheel turns, and articulation points) Granted, the lr3 when in extended mode is lower at the rear diff but the rest of the underside is roughly 14" above ground so it is overall better in the clearance aspect of course.
On the Touareg (with air suspensions) this 12" clearance is throughout the entire length of the underside including the rear diff where the lr3 hangs considerably lower. So, when in this maximum raised setting, you can feel the ends of the suspension "travel" reached, just like when the lr3 is "induced" to it's own maximum.
For those of you who have no idea how one "induces" the lr3, RR, RRS, and I assume lr4, into this upper level, it's actually quite simple. It will occur "naturally" if in a situation where the vehicle suspension (pressure/force sensor settings I presume) become aware of less pressure on the wheels, meaning, you are stuck or becoming high centered, too tall a break over, etc.
But who wants to wait until they are almost stuck to have the full height clearance available? A little momentum and all you have on tap is what I want. Simply placing a jack stand snug up under the sill when in "lifted" mode, then lower the suspension on said stand, the vehicle will raise itself higher than the "off road" setting into the "extended" height.
It's pretty cool and requires no rods, spacers, or reduced safety on the highway. Nor does it result in constant extra stress to the overall system by running those alterations.
details? cost? projected advantages/disadvantages?
Dave Legacy
Adventurer
Certainly more comfortable at higher speeds on corrugated terrain. The LR3 shakes me up pretty good at even 20mph, but my D2 didn't mind too much. I don't think the EAS travels quickly enough.
Jwestpro
Explorer
What size and model tires and rims were you using on your D2? A larger tire, aired down a little is going to be different than the maximums the lr3 can use on 18" rims.
I've driven both too and I do not see how a steel sprung lr3 is going to be softer riding over that stuff than the air version.
Don't you think there is a chance you drove the D2 differently too? I know I approach almost everything differently in the LR3 than I do in my D1 or D2.
I would expect 33" tires on 16" rims is going to allow different possibilities than a 31.5" tire on 18" rims given the sidewall difference of almost 2"
I think where the LR3 on air cannot be beat is moving over very uneven trails because the suspension moves independently at each corner leaving the vehicle floating level for the most part whereas the solid axle Discovery twists all over back and forth relative to the speed. The LR3 can glide through stuff like that as if it weren't there.
The idea of putting the LR3 up higher on steel springs allowing for larger tires, but obviously not much larger due to other constraints, is an appealing idea/dream, but I am willing to bet you trade off a number of other aspects that make continuing to use the LR3 platform possibly silly.
For example, raising the lr3 permanently, you also bring the track in narrower and likely end up with more stress on the other suspension members and joints due to angles approaching their designed limits.
I LOVE the idea of the taller LR3 with at least 285/65x18" tires with room left over for snow chains, but at what cost? It seems like you'd really need to go toward the route of complete rebuild of the suspension components as well. Bring the track back out, cut and re-flare the fenders, etc.
Maybe someone can modify (lengthen) existing arms and such so that the taller height is also balanced with proper track width and longer wheel travel too.
Should I keep my LR3 as a test guinea pig? While we're at it, can we drop in a sweet TDI and camper roof conversion?
Scott Brady
Founder
I was genuinely surprised with how popular the LR3 is in SA, and even quite popular to modify. Numerous modifications are available, including extra tanks, drawer systems, bumper, racks, suspension systems, etc.
There are guy using them hard here too, and the coil-sprung TdV6 models seem to be quite reliable. Overall, it made me go Hmmmm.
I certainly wouldn't use one for RTW work, but for camping on the weekends and comfortable DD, it might be just the ticket.
There are guy using them hard here too, and the coil-sprung TdV6 models seem to be quite reliable. Overall, it made me go Hmmmm.
I certainly wouldn't use one for RTW work, but for camping on the weekends and comfortable DD, it might be just the ticket.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Scott. Scott. Scott.
Remember the D2. Remember the D2.
Then again, new platforms that inspire the expedition muse are getting few and far between. Pretty soon we're going to start seeing threads about expedition essentials for the Nissan Leaf.
Remember the D2. Remember the D2.
Then again, new platforms that inspire the expedition muse are getting few and far between. Pretty soon we're going to start seeing threads about expedition essentials for the Nissan Leaf.
Dave Legacy
Adventurer
My 03 D2 had 16" alloys w/ 265/75 BFG MTs that I rarely aired down. I can see the tire size difference being a key factor and I can agree that independent suspension maintains a more level vehicle. I also drive the LR3 completely differently than my D2. It's a completely different vehicle and as a newer owner I have yet to really get used it it.
I had heard NWoods mention that he had noticed a difference between his coiler and EAS models. Not many people have had the experience of driving both in the States. My personal observation of the offroad ride in my D2 vs. LR3 is flawed due to the drastic differences in design. The tires on my D2 were probably masking all the walnut-sized rocks that the lower profile 18" tires are not.
Dave Legacy
Adventurer
Are you finding that a majority of the D3s you are seeing are coilsprung TDV6s? I'm sure it's hard to tell from a glance, but I believe the base-model TDV6 is coil-sprung and has no alpine roof. I'd be real surprised if your were coming across a lot of petrol V8s.
Mayb when you get home you should think about an LR3. You get get one of the Blackbox Solutions Unit and bail yourself out of a lot of trouble. I think it runs about $1000, but I hear it's worth it especially if you run into EAS issues. I'm not very familiar with the product, but I think the "Xtreme" model comes with it's own LCD screen so one doesn't require a laptop in addition to the blackbox device.
Jwestpro
Explorer
Tire choice may also have more of an affect than one would think. Aren't some MT tires somewhat pliable on the sidewall as compared to my bfg AT tires? I have been told that by a Rover off-roader tech.
In some ways, I really love the LR3 despite it's limitations.