onsight512
New member
impressive stuff.
MG Metalworks Van Build
- Thread starter mgmetalworks
- Start date
mgmetalworks
Explorer
Thanks! Happy to have you following along!
.
......................
.
The Allison trans showed up on Friday. Quite a bit to do to it before it is ready for install but I'm happy to have finally found it. I need to swap out the tailshaft housing and output shaft for the 4x4 parts and I'll probably put a shift kit and a new torque converter in before I finish (and a deep, high capacity pan at some point). Then there's the wiring harness and controller to figure out. Going to be a busy winter!!! :Mechanic:
.
jjohnny350
Adventurer
Great side of Portland, not too far from the coast, great area. Well keep the motivation coming for the rest of us that think a lot about doing what youre doing but dont do much about it. Youre a focused fellar, thanks.
mgmetalworks
Explorer
I had a few minutes to myself this morning so I opened up a couple of the spreadsheets of CAN data I've collected from my van and I started to do some digging. Using a handy online hexadecimal converter, I converted my VIN # and searched for the result. Sure enough, I found the pattern!!! I discovered that PID 4FF broadcasts the VIN over the bus in three chunks. (It also broadcasts another packet that is split into two chunks but I haven't figured out what that is yet.)
.
As an example of what this all looks like, here is a cargo van VIN I found online:
1FBNE3BLXDDA10151
.
Here is what that VIN looks like in hexadecimal format:
31 46 42 4e 45 33 42 4c 58 44 44 41 31 30 31 35 31
.
In the stream of CAN data, this is what the VIN looks like to our van's network of modules:
4FF 30 31 46 42 4e 45 0
4FF 31 33 42 4c 58 44 44
4FF 32 41 31 30 31 35 31
.
So what does this mean exactly? Well, for one it means that I've crossed the line from casual geek to full-on nerd because I got pretty excited when I figured this out...I may have let out an "F yeah!"...possibly a snort as well...definitely had to push my glasses back up on my face. Second, deciphering all of these PIDs will allow me to do things (like remove the PCM after the swap or spoof other modules) with a simple microcontroller. I have an Arduino (a low cost, simple microcontroller) on the way with the parts for connecting to the CAN bus. I can program this little board to broadcast CAN packets... or maybe even convert a CAN packet from one manufacturer's format to another format.
.
As an example of what this all looks like, here is a cargo van VIN I found online:
1FBNE3BLXDDA10151
.
Here is what that VIN looks like in hexadecimal format:
31 46 42 4e 45 33 42 4c 58 44 44 41 31 30 31 35 31
.
In the stream of CAN data, this is what the VIN looks like to our van's network of modules:
4FF 30 31 46 42 4e 45 0
4FF 31 33 42 4c 58 44 44
4FF 32 41 31 30 31 35 31
.
So what does this mean exactly? Well, for one it means that I've crossed the line from casual geek to full-on nerd because I got pretty excited when I figured this out...I may have let out an "F yeah!"...possibly a snort as well...definitely had to push my glasses back up on my face. Second, deciphering all of these PIDs will allow me to do things (like remove the PCM after the swap or spoof other modules) with a simple microcontroller. I have an Arduino (a low cost, simple microcontroller) on the way with the parts for connecting to the CAN bus. I can program this little board to broadcast CAN packets... or maybe even convert a CAN packet from one manufacturer's format to another format.
mgmetalworks
Explorer
hahaha! nice pic!
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
This build is awesome!!!!!
mgmetalworks
Explorer
I believe I have solved the great mystery of the ECM's security immobilizer. I won't be able to prove it out until I get the engine on a stand and get everything wired up for a test run but I have VERY high confidence that I now have the ability to clear what is probably the biggest hurdle of this project. I have already re-flashed the ECM to a more suitable calibration for the Allison trans as well as modified some parameters to adjust for my tire size, gear ratio and how the speed sensor on the Allison outputs to the ECM (a big accomplishment in and of itself).
.
There are still some things to prove out and lots of work still ahead but s&*t just got real-er up in here! :sombrero:
.
There are still some things to prove out and lots of work still ahead but s&*t just got real-er up in here! :sombrero:
mgmetalworks
Explorer
Time to take a little break from the computer stuff and get my hands dirty. Got a used NV271 really cheap so the idea is to rebuild this one and use the one in my van on another project. To mate this to an Allison requires a little custom work so even if I were to use my current T-case, I'd have to tear it down to do all these mods anyways. I really didn't want to wait until my van was apart to figure this all out, thus why I'm doing this one instead.
.
To start off, I built an attachment for my engine stand that I could bolt the t-case to and rotate it around for easier work.
.
And finally the real meat of the NV271 to Allison mating. On the right is the new input shaft. 29 spline out of a Dodge NV271. On the left is the factory Ford unit. Some obvious differences between the two shafts but they're the same size where they need to be. The only major difference to remember for assembly is that the end of the output shaft rides in a bearing on the inside of this shaft. On the Dodge, that bearing is set at a different depth than the Ford piece so I have to press that bearing into the right position before assembly. If I did nothing, the shaft would only be about half way into the bearing.
.
.
The other custom work necessary is to fit the output shaft speed sensor into the t-case output shaft housing and make an adapter ring because the mounting holes (t-case to trans) are way off.
When you convert the Allison tailshaft housing to the 4x4 unit, you lose the sensor provision so I need to do two things to the t-case... 1) machine a tone ring that will fit the output shaft of the t-case and have the right tooth count. This would be super easy if it weren't for the shape of the output shaft. I have a plan for what to do but of course it will require custom machined parts which = $. 2) The housing needs to be machined to accept the sensor. It is pretty important to get the sensor positioned precisely too so that won't be as simple as just drilling a hole.
.
fun stuff!! :a1:
.
To start off, I built an attachment for my engine stand that I could bolt the t-case to and rotate it around for easier work.
.
And finally the real meat of the NV271 to Allison mating. On the right is the new input shaft. 29 spline out of a Dodge NV271. On the left is the factory Ford unit. Some obvious differences between the two shafts but they're the same size where they need to be. The only major difference to remember for assembly is that the end of the output shaft rides in a bearing on the inside of this shaft. On the Dodge, that bearing is set at a different depth than the Ford piece so I have to press that bearing into the right position before assembly. If I did nothing, the shaft would only be about half way into the bearing.
.
.
The other custom work necessary is to fit the output shaft speed sensor into the t-case output shaft housing and make an adapter ring because the mounting holes (t-case to trans) are way off.
When you convert the Allison tailshaft housing to the 4x4 unit, you lose the sensor provision so I need to do two things to the t-case... 1) machine a tone ring that will fit the output shaft of the t-case and have the right tooth count. This would be super easy if it weren't for the shape of the output shaft. I have a plan for what to do but of course it will require custom machined parts which = $. 2) The housing needs to be machined to accept the sensor. It is pretty important to get the sensor positioned precisely too so that won't be as simple as just drilling a hole.
.
fun stuff!! :a1:
BajaSportsmobile
Baja Ironman
We sometime mill the correct number of "teeth" in the output flange, making it the reluctor ring, and mount the sensor externally - just a thought. It is easier...
mgmetalworks
Explorer
My wife tries to get the terminology straight but most of the time she is WAY off. I had a good laugh about her facebook post.
There is a special socket for the nut that the shift selector shaft rides in but you could probably get it off of there with a home-made tool. I ended up purchasing the Ford service tool kit for the 271/273 because I found one on Ebay for cheap. It has that socket and several bearing and seal drivers.
.
The real necessity is to have a VERY good pair of lock ring pliers. They have to open up about 1.25" or so in order to get a couple of the bigger rings off. Everything else is pretty simple.
.
I found this link that shows some of the tear-down steps. Pretty basic though. Same t-case, just different tail housing.
http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/5ykhl-dodge-3500-4x4-2003-ram-3500-4x4-single-axle-chain.html