MG Metalworks Van Build

[mgmetalworks]

I'm wondering what you didn't like about the casting. Was it too rough, weak, or was it that you just prefer the billet look. Seems like a lot of work to go through unless there was a major flaw in the casting or the design. Never the less, your commitment to top quality fabrication is amazing, can't wait to see where this goes.............A/T

The casting is very rough and up close it looks awful. Very little effort went into the design and it's a shame because some simple changes would make it a decent part. Aside from that, the quality of the cast isn't that great...very dirty and small voids throughout. The machining is just ok. You can't really see any of this from the vendor's website photos.

Thanks for following along!

 

[Jasper Jones]

Hey MG, do you have a part number or even year/model you got the headlight switch from? I'd like to use one in my van for my front LED light bar. Thanks!

Looking forward to your next update, you are always doing something cool!

 

[mgmetalworks]

Hey MG, do you have a part number or even year/model you got the headlight switch from? I'd like to use one in my van for my front LED light bar. Thanks!

Looking forward to your next update, you are always doing something cool!

OEM HEADLAMP SWITCH 2009-2013 FORD F SERIES #9L3Z 11654-BA

And here are the female crimp terminals that go into the headlight switch connector....

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...WA8iM0BIY1gJwXZhvll4KahV1jtAKlR/SuvlsGSxDhMUM

You'll need to add in a few wires to get the extra switch to function. If I remember later, I'll post the connector pin-out and/or diagram from the F-series wiring manual.

 

[WUzombies]

I got an email notification that these little beauties were available for sale again....

View attachment 276725

https://www.canb.us/

In simple terms, some of the data I want that is streaming from the Cummins ECM is in a different format and broadcast at a different rate than where I want to use that data (for instance, the Instrument Panel Cluster). This device allows me to monitor the Cummins data stream and extract out what I need, change up the format and then inject that data into the Ford data stream just like if it were coming from a factory PCM. Now...there is a LONG ways to go programming-wise before I have all of the dozen or so things working as they should but this is the first time something like this has been on market...for $79...and open source...with a support community sharing ideas and code... Freaking cool stuff!!! Other than doing all of this with an assortment of Arduinos and add-on CAN Bus parts, the next closest thing to do something sort of close to this costs over $400 with $250 in software to make it work.

In other news... the A-frame gantry hoist is in and ready to do some heavy lifting. I need to knock out some slider hinges, seat mounts, two different customer seat installs and fixing my wife's rig before I can get back to the Cummins project but I'm ready to get this thing done and reclaim my shop space...

Maybe I missed it, but why? Wouldn't it be easier to do a complete swap and modify the ECM to talk to the Ford ABS system? I don't have my list handy, but aren't the airbags ford uses compatible with the dodge system? What other system would be worth the work? Gauges? Seems like it would be easier to fabricate a new cluster housing for Dodge gauges/guts?

If you're ever in a significant collision (obviously I hope not) and someone tries to CDR your ride they are going to be in for a rude surprise!

 

[silvrzuki77]

What did the 55 gallon tank come from? Hope its going to be a future diy kit from you.

 

[Jasper Jones]

OEM HEADLAMP SWITCH 2009-2013 FORD F SERIES #9L3Z 11654-BA

And here are the female crimp terminals that go into the headlight switch connector....

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...WA8iM0BIY1gJwXZhvll4KahV1jtAKlR/SuvlsGSxDhMUM

You'll need to add in a few wires to get the extra switch to function. If I remember later, I'll post the connector pin-out and/or diagram from the F-series wiring manual.

Thanks a lot! I wanted to have a way to arm the circuit for my light bar, and then use the high beam switch activate the relay, and I think this is the perfect solution!

-Jason

 

[mgmetalworks]

Maybe I missed it, but why? Wouldn't it be easier to do a complete swap and modify the ECM to talk to the Ford ABS system? I don't have my list handy, but aren't the airbags ford uses compatible with the dodge system? What other system would be worth the work? Gauges? Seems like it would be easier to fabricate a new cluster housing for Dodge gauges/guts?

If you're ever in a significant collision (obviously I hope not) and someone tries to CDR your ride they are going to be in for a rude surprise!

The why is easy to answer in one word: Simplification. But if you need more than that...The Ram truck's electronics are a supreme cluster F of modules, micro-controller dependent power distribution and relays stacked on relays. There is also nearly 5X the CAN data traffic in the Ram truck vs the Ford van (requiring 5X the work to decipher what is important and what isn't). Additionally, the Ram truck is comprised of modules that will not allow circuits to energize unless certain security conditions are met. Yuck!

Whereas the Ford uses basic fuses, basic relays and about the simplest CAN module network of any modern vehicle.... It is way less work to get the Cummins and Allison integrated into the Ford van than it would be to integrate all of the Ram truck's electronics into a vehicle other than a Ram truck. Personally, I don't like the way the Ram's electrical system is done either. I think it is far more prone to failure and harder to troubleshoot than the way the E-series is laid out. There aren't many forum posts about E-series vans having Battery Junction Box problems but do a search for TIPM issues and see how awesome Chrysler is at complicating something simple.

The Cummins gets stripped of most everything related to the Ram anyways and the communication between the engine's ECM and the Ford module network really just comes down to a handful key data packets. I have a bunch of them figured out now but admittedly it has taken some time to get this far.

And then after all of that... I want my van to look like it came from the factory with this set up so I'm keeping the van's instrument panel and most everything else intact.

Oh... The diagnostic port will work like normal when I'm done.

 

[mgmetalworks]

What did the 55 gallon tank come from? Hope its going to be a future diy kit from you.

The tank is from a '00 E450. The cutaway vans have a couple different aft-of-axle tanks, this is the biggest one. The frame members for these tanks are available through Ford (though not easy to find) or you can cut them out of a salvaged cutaway. I'm making my own cross members so I can incorporate a couple additional features into them. They'll all be done in CAD so easily reproducible.

The newer cutaways have a 55 gallon tank available but it looks shorter (front to back) and thicker (top to bottom) than this one. I haven't seen them side by side though so it could just be an optical illusion.

 

[WUzombies]

The why is easy to answer in one word: Simplification. But if you need more than that...The Ram truck's electronics are a supreme cluster F of modules, micro-controller dependent power distribution and relays stacked on relays. There is also nearly 5X the CAN data traffic in the Ram truck vs the Ford van (requiring 5X the work to decipher what is important and what isn't). Additionally, the Ram truck is comprised of modules that will not allow circuits to energize unless certain security conditions are met. Yuck!

Whereas the Ford uses basic fuses, basic relays and about the simplest CAN module network of any modern vehicle.... It is way less work to get the Cummins and Allison integrated into the Ford van than it would be to integrate all of the Ram truck's electronics into a vehicle other than a Ram truck. Personally, I don't like the way the Ram's electrical system is done either. I think it is far more prone to failure and harder to troubleshoot than the way the E-series is laid out. There aren't many forum posts about E-series vans having Battery Junction Box problems but do a search for TIPM issues and see how awesome Chrysler is at complicating something simple.

The Cummins gets stripped of most everything related to the Ram anyways and the communication between the engine's ECM and the Ford module network really just comes down to a handful key data packets. I have a bunch of them figured out now but admittedly it has taken some time to get this far.

And then after all of that... I want my van to look like it came from the factory with this set up so I'm keeping the van's instrument panel and most everything else intact.

Oh... The diagnostic port will work like normal when I'm done.

Ok, having dealt with Chrysler products I can believe that, is it outside of the SAE documentation on light vehicle CAN or just a clusterF with in? I'm sure the port will look fine but trying to download the van would be odd. Depending on where you are it would be interesting to pull it with the Bosche system to see the results (assuming what you're building off of is on the list). Are you in an emissions state?

I like what you're doing, just random questions that come from my background and profession.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Having a easily available crossmember would be awesome. Junkyard cut away vans are super rare in the junkyards here for some reason. Been trying to find a frame mounted battery box for a bit. Even worse at the pic a part they are super lazy and puncture the gas tanks to drain them.

 

[mgmetalworks]

Having a easily available crossmember would be awesome. Junkyard cut away vans are super rare in the junkyards here for some reason. Been trying to find a frame mounted battery box for a bit. Even worse at the pic a part they are super lazy and puncture the gas tanks to drain them.

yeah...I don't like that the wrecking yards puncture the tanks. I've seen a couple in prime condition at our Pick'n'Pull...except for the gash in the bottom. I found my tank on Ebay though I've seen a couple on craigslist in the last few months.

The battery boxes are on Ebay for a reasonable price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-ECONOL...250-/331440473657?hash=item4d2b644639&vxp=mtr

 

[silvrzuki77]

Thanks for the heads on the battery box!

 

[89s rule]

Would love to hear more about the cut away van tank usage and retrofit. Might be a good alternative for extended range and not having to shorten the stock tank for 4wd conversions.

 

[mgmetalworks]

Would love to hear more about the cut away van tank usage and retrofit. Might be a good alternative for extended range and not having to shorten the stock tank for 4wd conversions.

I think it is a great alternative to shortening the stock tank but it doesn't come "bolt on" easy unfortunately.

The cutaways have a few different tank configurations but the most popular I've seen are the 40 gallon and 55 gallon aft-of axle tanks. I haven't measured out a RB van so I don't know if the 55 gal tank would fit in the space under there but it fits with room to spare under an EB. I've seen them advertised for ~$500 used to $1000 new, not including the sending unit. They're out there in plentiful supply though.

Two of the rear cross members in the frame have to be removed and replaced. I welded a tube between the frame horns before I cut out the cross members because the frame will likely move around/twist a bit once you pop the rivets out. Speaking of rivets... I used a heavy duty air chisel to break off the rivets. It worked well but took some time. I didn't want to risk cutting into the frame with a torch or plasma.

The tank is mounted between the frame rails with the support straps directly bolted to the bottom of the frame on one side and the other side bolted to a bracket running between the new cross members. A google search can turn up several pictures of these tanks sitting between the frame rails.

The filler neck comes out in an inconvenient spot (close to the rear A/C) and I'm not 100% sure how this will play out yet. I might have room to snake around the A/C lines and put in a new filler door at the back of the van. Worst case I'll spin the tank 180 and put the filler out the passenger side...or weld in a new filler tube in the spot I want it. This is probably the biggest challenge to using one of these tanks.

The fuel lines aren't anything special and the extended sections could be purchased from Ford or made from scratch with aftermarket hose/fittings.

The fuel level sensor works the same as a stock tank but I haven't hooked it up yet to see if the gauge on the dash reads right through the whole sweep.

Not exactly a bolt-in mod but still doable if you want the large capacity. It also opens up a ton of room for stuff along the frame where the stock tank was. Or if you really wanted, you could have two fuel tanks in the van.

 

[silvrzuki77]

Still super interested! Have zero desire to carry jerry cans and make a bumper carrier. We head into death valley alot from NV. Those gas prices are out of control.