Minimum EV Range Requirement for Touring Western U.S.

[MicroOverland]

How much would you be willing to pay for a charge 'on the go'?
As a gas station owner, I can't see the economic viability without the taxpayer paying for the install, and that's just immoral.

 

[calicamper]

How much would you be willing to pay for a charge 'on the go'?
As a gas station owner, I can't see the economic viability without the taxpayer paying for the install, and that's just immoral.

Chargers definitely have lower foot print and property impact than the OL gas station. Utilities will ultimately be the top vendors for charge points. New commercial stuff like banks mini malls etc all get a flat fee or monthly rental fee for charging stations put n their parking lots. The hardware is definitely lower cost than a fuel pump.

low environmental impact issues on the ground, small footprint etc. Chargers will be scattered all over not just major street corners. Definitely a different model than the OL gas station.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Chargers definitely have lower foot print and property impact than the OL gas station. Utilities will ultimately be the top vendors for charge points. New commercial stuff like banks mini malls etc all get a flat fee or monthly rental fee for charging stations put n their parking lots. The hardware is definitely lower cost than a fuel pump.

low environmental impact issues on the ground, small footprint etc. Chargers will be scattered all over not just major street corners. Definitely a different model than the OL gas station.

Yup, agree with all of this.

We were in the tiny town of Kremmling, CO back in June. I noticed that in the corner of the town park was a small, single charging station. It literally took up a single parking space. I presume the power was drawn off of the office that was part of the town park.

I think we'll start seeing more things like that popping up. As far as the cost of installation, the smart thing would be for local businesses to pitch in on the cost. After all, when people stop to charge their cars for 2 - 3 hours, where are they going to be walking around and spending money?

The "fuel station" of the future will not look like a "filling station" of today. At a "filling station" you pull in, pump your fuel, maybe walk into the store for a snack or bathroom break, then get back in your car and leave.

An EV "charging station" will look more like a parking lot, except with a pedestal in front of each space. You'll pull in, plug in, and then either sit in your car watching a movie or surfing the internet, or walk in to a shop/restaurant and spend your time (and money) there.

 

[calicamper]

Yup, agree with all of this.

We were in the tiny town of Kremmling, CO back in June. I noticed that in the corner of the town park was a small, single charging station. It literally took up a single parking space. I presume the power was drawn off of the office that was part of the town park.

I think we'll start seeing more things like that popping up. As far as the cost of installation, the smart thing would be for local businesses to pitch in on the cost. After all, when people stop to charge their cars for 2 - 3 hours, where are they going to be walking around and spending money?

The "fuel station" of the future will not look like a "filling station" of today. At a "filling station" you pull in, pump your fuel, maybe walk into the store for a snack or bathroom break, then get back in your car and leave.

An EV "charging station" will look more like a parking lot, except with a pedestal in front of each space. You'll pull in, plug in, and then either sit in your car watching a movie or surfing the internet, or walk in to a shop/restaurant and spend your time (and money) there.

Most EV owners are only on a charger 30-40 minutes at most.

The old concept of fill it up then give it three more clicks isn’t how EVs work. The battery technology makes the meat of the battery the best portion to use, charge run at etc.

from 20% to 80% is the meat of a EV battery. Thats the portion that charges the most efficiently ie fastest. Also filling all the way up err charging to 100% isn’t exactly healthy for the battery.

Experienced EV owners with daily use actually set them to only charge late at night at the low est electricity cost (rates). The car might be plugged in at 2pm but that doesn’t mean it’s charging. Also back to battery use daily users only charge for their typical daily use.
Example if your typical day is 50 miles you generally only charge for 100-120 mile range which for most EVs is 40-50% battery charged.

This also means that for most EVs figure 2miles per KW.They are pulling 25 ish or less Kw per night charging. All the EVs are getting smart meaning if a situation develops say weather event gets forecast and your car is already charged 50%. It will kick back on and charge 100% without you telling it to. Its anticipating you may need 100% range to evacuate or possibly go a few days with no grid power etc.

As for understanding power use. My 1968 2700sqft house with giant pool, several refrigerators and updated as much as makes sense to be efficient will burn through 18-23kw in 24 hours in the summer with fans, pool pump etc. Winters we don’t run pool pumps and typically use the 40,000 btu gas insert only, we’ll run 10-16kw a day. Thats no AC use on the house! We were day 6 here yesterday with 100+ temps. Yesterday was the first day this year I turned on our AC. The house finally broke 80 at about 5:30pm. We ran the AC for about 45min then our outside temps dropped to 80 so AC went off. If we run the AC like a typical user all day we easily will see 64kw used in 24hrs vs say a high day of 25kw without AC.
Forced air AC is still the absolute number one power pig in the electricity world.

So most EV owners doing the US average 30 miles daily are likely using double the Electricity they used prior to moving to a EV.

 

[Deleted member 144299]

Perhaps gas stations will still be needed in more remote areas as a place to charge and a take a break from driving but I could see them easily going away in more urban areas once EVs become the majority of cars on the road. Most EV owners that I know only use charging stations while on trips, they just charge at home during normal usage so if parking lots just have a few dozen charging stations it could easily make a "EV gas station" kinda pointless. A Kia EV6 goes from 10% to 80% charge in about 18 minutes on a DC fast charger and gets about 300 miles range, those numbers are only going to get better.

How much would you be willing to pay for a charge 'on the go'?
As a gas station owner, I can't see the economic viability without the taxpayer paying for the install, and that's just immoral.

Tax payers have been paying subsidies in the billions every year to the oil and gas industry despite them making profits hand over fist so maybe that money should shift to more sustainable energy? If it helps your business adapt to new technology and stay profitable how is that immoral?

 

[Martinjmpr]

Tax payers have been paying subsidies in the billions every year to the oil and gas industry despite them making profits hand over fist so maybe that money should shift to more sustainable energy? If it helps your business adapt to new technology and stay profitable how is that immoral?

Yeah I LOL at the notion that the argument that "clean energy has to be subsidized" - as if the fossil fuel industry is not one of the most historically and heavily subsidized industries in the US.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Perhaps gas stations will still be needed in more remote areas as a place to charge and a take a break from driving but I could see them easily going away in more urban areas once EVs become the majority of cars on the road. Most EV owners that I know only use charging stations while on trips, they just charge at home during normal usage so if parking lots just have a few dozen charging stations it could easily make a "EV gas station" kinda pointless.

Well, people who are visiting from another town may still need a place to charge. But likely there will be large parking lots at shopping centers or big-box stores that will be set up with charging stations that they can use, so you may be right that the urban "gas station" could become a thing of the past.

Convenience stores will still be there, of course, for people to get their morning coffee or a quick lunch or snack, but they likely won't have charging stations because the whole point of a convenience store is "get in and get out" in under 10 minutes, which will not work for charging.

 

[jmmaxus]

TFL truck did an Alaska trip with a lightning and fwc camper. They made it but it seemed challenging and they had a F150 hybrid support truck with the pro charge to power the Lightning in emergencies. I think they had to do that at least once. I think the consensus was its not ready now with current infrastructure but maybe in 5 years+. A PHEV (gas hybrid plug in) would be ideal vehicle to do this currently.




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[Todd780]

its not ready now with current infrastructure but maybe in 5 years+. A PHEV (gas hybrid plug in) would be ideal vehicle to do this currently.




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Agreed.

 

[Deleted member 144299]

I have a PHEV (prius prime) and the only time it makes sense to have the 30 miles of full EV is for your daily commute, on long trips it just becomes extra weight you drag around. I think the battery pack on the prius prime is like 200 pounds and is not in use once depleted unless you get enough regen from a long downhill section. A normal hybrid might be best for travel plus you save several thousand dollars vs the plugin version.

 

[jmmaxus]

I have a PHEV (prius prime) and the only time it makes sense to have the 30 miles of full EV is for your daily commute, on long trips it just becomes extra weight you drag around. I think the battery pack on the prius prime is like 200 pounds and is not in use once depleted unless you get enough regen from a long downhill section. A normal hybrid might be best for travel plus you save several thousand dollars vs the plugin version.

PHEV is great for commuting where the 200 lb 8.9 kWh battery in your case gets you back and forth to work without gas. I agree a normal hybrid which I own a 2020 Sonata Hybrid is great for long trips and you don’t have to plug-in or carry a big battery after it’s depleted to the point it only operates in normal hybrid mode. I still think the PHEV option is great for Overlanding vehicles because even Trucks/SUVs on the market now with regular hybrid systems e.g. Tundra Hybrid, Explorer, etc. are only getting low to mid 20s mpg. I like the direction Jeep is going with their 4xe vehicles. You can commute to work and back inside of what would normally be an iniffieicnt commuting vehicle in battery alone and then use it to travel overland etc. in mostly normal hybrid mode. Granted your carrying around the big battery but I think it makes more sense in these types of vehicles vs a Prius or Sonata.


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[Deleted member 144299]

PHEV is great for commuting where the 200 lb 8.9 kWh battery in your case gets you back and forth to work without gas. I agree a normal hybrid which I own a 2020 Sonata Hybrid is great for long trips and you don’t have to plug-in or carry a big battery after it’s depleted to the point it only operates in normal hybrid mode. I still think the PHEV option is great for Overlanding vehicles because even Trucks/SUVs on the market now with regular hybrid systems e.g. Tundra Hybrid, Explorer, etc. are only getting low to mid 20s mpg. I like the direction Jeep is going with their 4xe vehicles. You can commute to work and back inside of what would normally be an iniffieicnt commuting vehicle in battery alone and then use it to travel overland etc. in mostly normal hybrid mode. Granted your carrying around the big battery but I think it makes more sense in these types of vehicles vs a Prius or Sonata.


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Yeah if your adventure rig is also your daily driver that makes perfect sense, good point.

It's funny that MPG was not a big concern of mine until we bought the prius for a second car and I drove it 1,700 miles to visit my folks, made it there using only 30 gallons vs the 100 the Tacoma would've gone through. It really adds up.

 

[calicamper]

Plugin hybrids will probably only be seen on utility type vehicles in the near future. Passenger car straight EV makes the most sense today. Hybrid truck large SUV etc that especially makes sense when you consider towing and long distance trips with lots of equipment or passengers etc.

If my Expedition had 12-20 mile EV range like my wife’s Fusion it would be perfect. 90% of all my local trips hauling kids would be EV mode. I use her car most of the time when she’s at the home office. The fusion has a 62mpg life time average 80,000 miles. My Expedition would easily double its lifetime mileage with a small EV range plugin ability. Battery weight and size is definitely changing fast. Prius uses ancient technology and its mileage isn’t as goid as the Fusion which has AC seats and phone conversation quiet interior. Don’t get me started on the Japan side (right side charge port) ?‍.

 

[Deleted member 144299]

That's a pretty strong opinion about the Prius Prime, did it kick your dog or something? LOL. I like mine, I have no clue if it's better than a fusion or not but I was hardly "bent of the sales desk" and it's far from a POS.

 

[ABBB]

PHEV is great for commuting where the 200 lb 8.9 kWh battery in your case gets you back and forth to work without gas. I agree a normal hybrid which I own a 2020 Sonata Hybrid is great for long trips and you don’t have to plug-in or carry a big battery after it’s depleted to the point it only operates in normal hybrid mode. I still think the PHEV option is great for Overlanding vehicles because even Trucks/SUVs on the market now with regular hybrid systems e.g. Tundra Hybrid, Explorer, etc. are only getting low to mid 20s mpg. I like the direction Jeep is going with their 4xe vehicles. You can commute to work and back inside of what would normally be an iniffieicnt commuting vehicle in battery alone and then use it to travel overland etc. in mostly normal hybrid mode. Granted your carrying around the big battery but I think it makes more sense in these types of vehicles vs a Prius or Sonata.


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What dreams may come…

Toyota Allegedly Working On Diesel-Electric Hybrid Powertrain

In a report coming from Japan, Toyota is allegedly working on a diesel-electric hybrid powertrain, making sure that all Toyota vehicles in Japan will be hybrid.

www.motor1.com