more evidence that the Wrangler may be in for a change

[haven]

Two tall orders for Jeep engineers working on the Wrangler re-design:

1. the Wrangler's fuel economy needs to improve.
2. Jeep needs to maintain (or even improve) the Wrangler's off-road performance

How to achieve these goals?

First, make the vehicle as light as possible. That means using aluminum and high strength steel. Keep the solid front axle, but pare down the weight.

Second, make the vehicle more aerodynamic. This means replacing the fold-down windshield with a more curved model. The vertical 7 bar grille needs to be leaned back a bit. Somehow, airflow around the axles and tires needs to be smoothed out.

Third, use a smaller turbocharged engine and more gears in the transmission. Jeeps had four cylinder engines for many years. Time to go back to the future. Diesel would help, but would make the price of admission a lot higher.

Maybe it's time to separate the Wrangler from the Wrangler Unlimited. The Wrangler is a compact, and the Unlimited is bigger than most standard size cars. The Unlimited outsells the Wrangler at least 60%-40%, maybe more. Make the Wrangler the model that has the best off-road performance, and make the Unlimited the model that makes the most improvement in mpg.

 

[Lord Al Sorna]

As of yesterday, I am a JKUR owner. I sold two project cars to make it happen and had lots of options.

I knew I wanted a solid front axle, coming from an IFS Tacoma that I blew apart at Cruise Moab 2014... Options were narrowed down to:
80 Series Cruiser (outright, with mod money)
70 Series Cruiser (outright, with mod money)
JKUR (financed, no mod money)

I went with the Jeep, because it is the ONLY vehicle produced currently that has a SFA and the right parts for enthusiasts off the showroom floor. By taking on the payment, I lost nothing from my Tacoma's off road capability, but did not have to purchase a vehicle with 250k on the odometer. I consider it a massive win for my new adventure vehicle.

Unfortunately as a % of sales my ilk might as well be dog-****... But I want to let anyone listening know that the SFA in the Wrangler sold me.

 

[GetOutThere]

Maybe it's time to separate the Wrangler from the Wrangler Unlimited. The Wrangler is a compact, and the Unlimited is bigger than most standard size cars. The Unlimited outsells the Wrangler at least 60%-40%, maybe more. Make the Wrangler the model that has the best off-road performance, and make the Unlimited the model that makes the most improvement in mpg.

Yeah, no.

I mostly agree with your post, but then I hit that last bit.

Again, catering to the fad of soccer moms buying this vehicle is doomed to fail. So is trying to maintain a huge market share with a niche vehicle. There will always be people who buy wranglers to never leave the pavement. If you start trying to develop the vehicle specifically for them, ironically you lose exactly what it is that drew them to the vehicle in the first place. Not only that, but you lose all the people that the vehicle was originally developed for.

The unlimited out sells the 2 door for one reason: Practicality. Practicality applies to everyone in their buying market, including the off roaders, so why make that practicality only available if you want a diluted version of the vehicle? Makes no sense from a sales perspective.

The JK is so successful because it strikes some sort of awkward balance. It's not so bad on the road that people will outright disregard it in their shopping for a street vehicle/suv/family hauler, plus it has that cool adventure factor, classic looks, and heritage. But while achieving that daily drive-ability, off road prowess has NOT been sacrificed, and has in fact been improved with every new iteration.

The point is that they already have a winning formula here. All they have to do is apply a linear improvement to all aspects, and I guarantee the next model will be a winner. Hell. I'll even come out and say it will be a winner if ONLY the "regular car" aspects (MPG, comfort, gadgets, etc.) improve. If everything else stays the same it's a success, and will sell better than they do now.

But if the wrangler starts to regress... if the company sacrifices off road capability at all, and by doing so sacrifices the storied heritage of the Wrangler, it will be a painful failure.

 

[drcoopster]

Second, make the vehicle more aerodynamic. This means replacing the fold-down windshield with a more curved model. The vertical 7 bar grille needs to be leaned back a bit. Somehow, airflow around the axles and tires needs to be smoothed out.

Some strategically-placed and easily-removed plastic bodywork could do a lot to improve aerodynamics. Jeep would be able to realize an increase in fleet mileage and a good marketing point, while the enthusiasts w enthusiasts enthusiasm able to easily removed it for improved clearance and/or appearance.

Even on my WK2, Jeep's published approach angle specifications notes that the lower front fascia be removed to make the numbers.

 

[cruiserdude80]

I really don't know what to make of the rumor mill surrounding the next generation Wrangler. IFS/SFA, body on frame/unibody, gas/diesel who knows? I think it will be at least 6 months to a year before anything solid emerges on what direction the new Wrangler is going to take. I am not overly optimistic.

I think the changes that are in store for it, are reducing weight, improving handling, and fuel economy. I think this will be achieved through the use of aluminum and composite body materials. I think the vehicle aerodynamics are going to evolve through the front grill and windshield having more angle and curvature. I think the fold down windshield will be history with the next generation. Jeep has made it a major PITA to fold down the windshield since the introduction of the 87 Wrangler. Consequently, it is rare to see a Wrangler going down the road or trail with windshield folded down. (In fact I have never seen a Wrangler with the windshield folded down other than in pictures.)

I think IFS with Rack and Pinion steering is going to happen, mainly to improve driveability. I really want the Wrangler to stay SFA, but I think ultimately building a Wrangler for the masses over the much smaller enthusiast group will win out. I think unibody vs body on frame is 50/50 as to whether or not this will happen. If a diesel does become an option, it will not occur during the first years of the model run.

Somebody commented about Grand Cherokee sales outnumbering Wrangler sales. That is pretty much apples and oranges. Wrangler buyers and Grand Cherokee buyers are pretty much buying those vehicles for different reasons. A lot of people don't saunter onto the Jeep lot and do a coin toss to decide between buying a Wrangler or a Grand Cherokee. They are generally in the market for either a Wrangler or a Grand Cherokee, not deciding between the two.

The only way I will consider buying a new Wrangler and giving up my TJ is if a diesel becomes an option and the SFA is retained. If the new Wrangler has IFS, then I will hang onto my TJ and look at getting a Tacoma. If the new Wrangler has IFS, then at that point there is no incentive for me to pick a Wrangler over a Tacoma. A Wrangler IFS pretty much equalizes the playing field for me with a Tacoma edging out the Wrangler in my decision making.

 

[Omar Brannstrom]

Somebody commented about Grand Cherokee sales outnumbering Wrangler sales. That is pretty much apples and oranges. Wrangler buyers and Grand Cherokee buyers are pretty much buying those vehicles for different reasons. A lot of people don't saunter onto the Jeep lot and do a coin toss to decide between buying a Wrangler or a Grand Cherokee. They are generally in the market for either a Wrangler or a Grand Cherokee, not deciding between the two.

.

Hi

Thoose sales numbers I have seen before showed me that Wrangler sales are slightly higher than Grand Cherokee in US and in Canada

"In Canada, just like in the U.S., the Jeep brand set a new June sales record with 6,817 units sold. The Jeep Wrangler was the best-selling model, racking up 2,553 sales, a new June record. The Wrangler was also the top Jeep in the U.S."

From http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/page/4

So Wrangler have higher sales in US and in Canada than Grand Cherokee but outside US market Grand Cherokee sells more.

Se here http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/page/17

Why Is that? I can only Speculate.

In Europe we dont have so much nature left, we have destroyed it and it is very over populated and offroad is forbidden so less need for 4x4. The European policy is it aint allowed to drive in nature, so we cover it with asphalt instead and destroy the nature to 100% and then it is allowed to drive there:Wow1: Grand Cherokee is more a ordinary car. In US many youngsters buy Wrangler because it looks cool, want surfing etc and some of them can afford it but in Europe it cost maybe 2-6 times more than in US so offen it is bought by older people that have money and some of them have gone beyond coolness and buys Grand Cherokee and have no need for 4x4 anyway. The 2 door Wrangler were not so popular outside US, to small and the 4 door came out late at 2007, so it will take some time outside US to gain in popularity.
In Europe Wrangler have strong competition from Landrover Defender. In South Africa and In Australia Wrangler have strong competition from Landrover Defender and 70 series Toyota Landcruiser, but I think Wrangler is gaining there in sales, it will take sometime. Also Suzuki Jimny competes some to the Wrangler, it is like a baby Jeep with low gears, body on frame, SFA at half the cost. Wrangler in US dont have the same competition as in the rest of the world in the same segment.


My former Suzuki Jimny and my former 2012 Jeep Wrangler

 

[kojackJKU]

that little zook is awesome. I would love to have one. and one of those mini, minivans with the little cargo area in the back.

 

[irish1371]

I believe jeep Is missing the picture. The jku should be a jeep aimed at families. The jk should tailor to off roaders. But I believe there is room for 1 more jk , an lj style with a partial 3rd door on the passenger side. I sat and tried a million ideas on how to add a small opening on the passenger side of my lj before I caved and traded it in.

Some sort of small openable door that would make accessing the back less painful.

For those times when you have to pick up the brothers kids. Or when you just need to reach something I n the back without breaking a short rib

 

[Omar Brannstrom]

I believe jeep Is missing the picture. The jku should be a jeep aimed at families.

No The JKU should be aimed at overlanders Iam singel and have a JKU and had a JK

 

[irish1371]

Yea so do I. I ment it as a generalization. You can buy a jeep and make it what ever you want it to be. That is why we love it. Just because the jku would be marketed twards soccer moms xoesnt mean you cant buy one and expo it.

 

[redthies]

They already do a soccer mom JKU! It's called the Sahara. I still see a use for a 4 door Rubicon model for the "overlanding" crowd and people that actually want to run trails with their 2.4 children along. I doubt there would be too many hassles involved in doing tha X, Sport and Sahara as IFS rigs, and the Rubicon as solid front axle.

 

[haven]

Here are USA sales figures for Wrangler and Grand Cherokee for the last several years. GC finishes slightly ahead in all years, probably due to capacity issues in the plant that builds the Cherokee. International sales probably boost the Wrangler slightly past the Grand Cherokee.

Grand Cherokee USA sales
2011…127,744 units
2012…154,734
2013…174,275
2014…89,613 YTD

Wrangler USA Sales
2011…122,460
2012…141,669
2013…155,502
2014…85,737 YTD

source: goodcarbadcar.net

Here's why Mike Manley wants a more mainstream Wrangler.

Jeep Grand Cherokee is second to Ford Explorer in midsize SUV sales so far in 2014. Grand Cherokee is quite a bit ahead of competitors like Subaru Outback and Toyota Highlander. Adding a stretched wheelbase model with three rows of seats will push sales higher, but there's not much more Jeep can do to improve Grand Cherokee sales.

In contrast, Jeep Wrangler sits fifth in small SUV sales in 2014, behind Honda CR-V, Ford Escape, Chevrolet Equinox, and Toyota RAV4. If Jeep could change the Wrangler to broaden its appeal a little, without giving up too many of the manly offroad adventurist buyers, then Wrangler could steal sales from the more popular brands.

An increase of 6% or 7% in Wrangler sales, about 10,000 sales stolen from the more popular models, could add millions of dollars to Jeep's bottom line.

 

[SSF556]

In contrast, Jeep Wrangler sits fifth in small SUV sales in 2014, behind Honda CR-V, Ford Escape, Chevrolet Equinox, and Toyota RAV4. If Jeep could change the Wrangler to broaden its appeal a little, without giving up too many of the manly offroad adventurist buyers, then Wrangler could steal sales from the more popular brands.

An increase of 6% or 7% in Wrangler sales, about 10,000 sales stolen from the more popular models, could add millions of dollars to Jeep's bottom line.

Wrangler should not be competing with those small SUVs....that should be the job of the new Cherokee....

 

[GetOutThere]

Jeep Grand Cherokee is second to Ford Explorer in midsize SUV sales so far in 2014. Grand Cherokee is quite a bit ahead of competitors like Subaru Outback and Toyota Highlander. Adding a stretched wheelbase model with three rows of seats will push sales higher, but there's not much more Jeep can do to improve Grand Cherokee sales.

In contrast, Jeep Wrangler sits fifth in small SUV sales in 2014, behind Honda CR-V, Ford Escape, Chevrolet Equinox, and Toyota RAV4. If Jeep could change the Wrangler to broaden its appeal a little, without giving up too many of the manly offroad adventurist buyers, then Wrangler could steal sales from the more popular brands.

An increase of 6% or 7% in Wrangler sales, about 10,000 sales stolen from the more popular models, could add millions of dollars to Jeep's bottom line.

Again, I have to disagree with you and Manley.

The Wrangler is Jeep's "halo" vehicle. It defines the brand, and it is what produces the cognitive bias that makes many "main stream" individuals buy ANY model of Jeep. Anyone walking onto a Jeep lot wants to buy a Wrangler. They may not want the physical manifestation of it, but they want the feelings and emotions behind it. The Jeep brand bleeds wrangler into every one of its products.

Land Rover used to do the same thing with its model line, and then they did the exact thing you are describing. Landrover used to be looked at as an adventure vehicle company... now they are primarily looked at as a posh luxobarge company. This isn't to say that they don't make some decent off roaders, but that is not what draws 90% of their clientèle into the show room. Jepp as a company, markets their vehicles as adventure vehicles. I don't believe they have a desire to change from this, so watering down the wrangler makes little sense. Sales of the wrangler are simply part of the bigger sales picture.

Landrover people, for the most part, no longer buy the new vehicles as adventure vehicles. Most of them buy older Discos, Defenders, etc. The LR4 is keeping a bare minimum of the adventure market, but when the new Discovery is released, this will drop even further. Landrover has consciously changed it's brand definition. It's arguable whether this was a good decision or not, but I don't think anyone can argue that it would be a good decision for Jeep.

Edit: Presumably Jeep knows this, hence the expansion of their product line up to better fill the gaps (Cherokee, Renegade... both of which will be huge sellers, even more if the trans kinks ever get worked out)

 

[Comanche Scott]

One thing for sure, is that safety standards are getting more strict throughout the world, it's not just economy and drive-ability that are at issue for the Wrangler.

As to sales volume, all Jeep needs to do to sell more Wranglers is get more of them on Dealer's lots. History shows the more they build, the more they sell.