My 02 Avalanche NFE

[Burb One]

Quick question I forgot to ask - which 4-6" lifts are you putting in? I'm seriously trying to figure this one out. I can afford to do it - just can't afford to be wrong about it.

On those latches, I have the same problem. I feel I should have gone for the locking ones as well. I ended up welding a tab that sticks up to the back of the handle and drilled a hole through the handle and tab and put a U hitch pin through it... I could NOT get them to "torque down and stay closed in the position mine were with a parallel mount point.


For the 4-6" lifts, when I researched them, I have found that there are "two" types of lifts. MOST- 99% of the 6" lifts are really 4.5-5" lifts (in terms of the actual diff drop is 4.5-5" and the extra inches to get to 6" are done by torqueing the keys and thus as a side effect changing the angles of the CV. The 1.5-2" worth of CV angle change is as much as you want to go in my opinion before the reliability of the CV's becomes more concern than the benefit of getting more clearance. Also, the old style kits are torsion drop, which looses some ground clearance as it drops the torsion bars with the diff.. most of the kits now are NTD (non-torsion drops) and are a better design IMO.

For the quality of the kits, I looked at ALL of them before, in person, and they all seem to have their plus and minuses (also have to take into consideration the shocks they come with for the price etc... some of the cheaper kits don't seem such a good deal after considering the better shocks the better kits come with. There seems to be the "cheap ones" @~1000-1200, middle around ~1500-1800 and then the good ones for 2200+. The good ones $$ get you the full 6 inch drop which is ideal.

Saying that, I just couldn't justify double the $ for .5 of an inch, when all it really does is make my CG higher. If you are okay with the 2.5k price tag though go for it. You won't be disappointed. The cognito and BDS i believe are two that get you the full 6" diff drop, and seem to be the "highest" end brands. BDS especially has a great warranty.

The difference between the middle tier and "cheap" ones is minuscule, and really shocks. I decided that the middle tier didn't have anything different than the cheap tier other than better shocks which were not the ones I wanted anyway. I went with Rough Country, IMO the biggest cheap name brand because of the price (xmas 999 sale) and because of the warranty and company stability. I always know Rough Country(RC) will be in business. The RC give you a ~5.3-5.4" of diff drop from my measurements. I have my coilovers (and before that my torsion bars to give me about 6.1-6.2" of lift.

After my lift, I also ended up putting coilovers on the front of my kit, which in my opinion is the best option for these trucks and not very well known as you have to mix and match some parts to do it. All said in down is an awesome, awesome suspension for an IFS GMT800, check out my thread..

The plate thickness all seems to be about the same on the kits.

I can fully give a recommendation on the rough country because that's what I have, and I have not been disappointed with the quality of any of it. It has been flawless, and I have only bent a sway bar link, which was my fault and they replaced it no questions asked. I have also had first hand experience with an BDS on a tahoe and my buddy loves it as well (except now he's jealous of the coilovers, which he's in the process of doing and it nullifies the price difference between the the RC and his BDS)

also, any of the 6" lifts you can get 33's -35's on. If you go to 35's some of the kits require different wheel backspacing. the 33 or 35 debate is a whole other can of worms (If you are locked 10 bolt, I would highly recommend staying on 33's.)

 

[Stryder106]

^^^ Thanks^^^ A Lot of useful information in there.

Latches - Figured it out. As mentioned -they need to go over 90* to lock down. I ended up cutting out the middile sections of my bumper that the latch tabs were on and moving them outboard 1.25" each. That solved the problem.

Lift Kits - ARGH!!! You recommend Rough Country for our rigs for overlanding? I CALLED RC on Friday and spoke with one of their techs. Explained what it is I am doing (overlanding, not rock crawling) and asked him if it were his rig, with his family, would he run the RCD kit? His reply, "No, I would not." So, I was looking at the BDS kits (they have the non-torsion drop high clearance kit). they have both a 4.5" and 6.5" kit - but are saying that I absolutely have to use the 6.5" kit to get a 35" tire in there. Odd since Rancho 4" kit uses the exact same knuckle and can fit a 35" tire (but the t-bards are dropped down and I don't want that).

Coil-Over Conversion - please enlighten me on how you did or what you bought to do this. I have recently installed Cognito UCAs, so could fit a coilover shock, but I don't know what else has to change. Please advise on this one.

Differential: OK - follow me on this. My truck came stock with 4.10 gears and the G80 Eaton Gov Lock (it still works) and 265-70-17 AT Tires. I currently have 285/70-17 tires. Looking to go to bigger tire (ideally 35") and was going to change gearing to 4.88. Was also looking to replace the G80 (everyone says it is a time bomb and are shocked mine still works at 173K miles) with something more stout. I was looking at another auto-locker, but folks keep steering me towards the ARB air locker. I do have the 10 bolt. Would this combo not be advisable? Do the 4.88 gears reduce the strain to the point that it is not a concern? Help - I'm trying to pull the trigger this week.

 

[Stryder106]

FYI - the BDS kit is 6.5" front 5.5" rear and neutrals the CV angles back to stock. It also can be had with Fox 2.0 shocks - which is essentially what I have on my rig now.

 

[Burb One]

Ya the latches in the parrellel config dint work, if you can get them so the angle is greater than 0 as you said, maybe they will!? I added an inch to mine and they still won't...

Sorry brain fart- when I said RCB, I meant BDS too many acronyms in my life.. edited my post.

Yes, no doubt the BDS IS the better kit than the RC. It gets you as close as possible to the full drop to lift ratio making the angles on the CV the most ideal. If you think that .5 inches is worth the extra 1500 go for it. Sometimes I think it is, sometimes not, usually when I do have regrets it's because I'm on the trail where that extra .5 could have helped also with these trucks, there is such a thing as too high cg so it's all a trade off at that point... I went with the RCB because I was going to plan on going SFA in the future so the $1000 was stomachable to get me some ground clearance for the next 3 or 4 years until I toughen myself up to grinding off my suspension for the SFA. With the ifs limitations, there's no rock crawling, just getting there.


The coilovers completely changed everything(didn't know about them until after I lifted) I now don't even want to go SFA and probably won't, it's that good. I don't rock crawling, but love getting there faster, and the truck can now haul a** on washboard roads with the best of them. It's that good.

If you do plan on going with the coilovers I don't see a huge difference between the RC and BCD other than the .5" of the diff drop because the front shocks etc are being replaced. IMO the RC components are pretty stout and comparing to my buddies BCD Tahoe, not much of an appreciable difference.

I wouldn't go with the 4" kits, you'll want that extra1.5- 2 inches because of our long wheel base, especially for the price. I'm pretty sure any of the 5"+kits you can fit 35's no rubbing. The 4" kits I'm sure 35's would fit with just rubbing on the front fender which can easily be cut a tad.

If your spending $$$ on lockers just go to the 14 bolt with a factory g80. You can find them already installed and it's bolt in and the same price as an arb locker all said and done and in 1500 power levels and 35's you'll have a hard time NB ever hurting it. Down the road you can throw in a selectable locker but honestly the 14 bolt with g80 is pretty capable. I wouldn't spend any money on a 10 bolt, it's just not worth it.

Also, if you're not rock crawling why do you want such low gears? It'll hurt your highway mpg, 4.10 with 35's in these trucks gets you mpg and enough power off road to get you in trouble I stuck with 33's and 4.10 because of highway mpg, but if your doing 35's 4.10 is enough imo, unless rock crawling, which the ifs will suck for anyway



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[Stryder106]

With the BDS kit - I'm convinced on the quality. I'm convinced on the high clearance (non-torsion drop). I'm convinced on the usefulness (puts my CV angles back to stock angle). What I'm not convinced on is how high my Av would sit. Here are the two pictures from their website - 6.5" lift with 35" tires. This thing looks ridiculously high - and I don't want that. I can't tell if it really is that high or just the photo.

 

[Stryder106]

As for the gears:

With my stock 265/70-17 tires (31.6) and stock 4.10 gears @ 65mph - I was making 1984 RPM (this calculator is very close to spot on for my truck).

With the 285/70-17 tires (32.7) and stock 4.10 gears @ 65MPH - I am making 1917 RPM.

With 35" tires and the stock 4.10 gears - I would make 1791 RPM.

With 35" tires and 4.88 gears - I would make 2132 RPM. That is only slightly higher than my original ration from the factory. So - it really isn't aggressive at all - in fact - helping to get the rig moving should reduce some stress on parts and recover some gas mileage - or at least offset the loss from 35"s.

 

[Burb One]

Looking at the relationship of the body to the tires on that lift and my 6"lift with 33's, that seems right for 35's? It does look a bit high I guess, probably because it looks like the picture was taken from a low angle? They probably did that to make it seem taller than it is for their marketing.

I'm not sure how much shorter the wheelbase is for the AV, but for the suburban, definitely go with the 6 inch if you are debating (6 vs 6.5, idk about that much of a difference) The ~6 inch will get you at least some height for our long wheel bases...

It seems some of the GMT800 mafia here likes the 2" lifts, and some like the 6" lifts. I'm in the latter, maybe because the trails i do I feel that extra height gives me some wiggle room with clearing things (I had the 2" lift before and it just wasn't enough). If you aren't doing a lot of medium trails, than maybe it's not worth it, but if you are it's a huge difference. On forest service roads, even poorly maintained ones, I never have to think twice anymore.. and for the harder trials opens up a lot more lines... This is only something you can put a price on depending/for your use IMO.

 

[Burb One]

Hm, I guess with the math at 65 you're right. I feel like with 33's and 4.10's my highway cruising is still too high.... I mean at 65 okay, but on the long stretches of roads in CA NV etc., 70-80 seems to be the norm cruise and that puts the revs up. 4.10 for me was the best mix of reasonable around town get up and go (and with a trailer), but still letting the v8 cruise on the highway. You are right, the shorter will help with MPG from a stop, but for me most of my mileage is done on highway crusie (my truck is really only driven for long trips) so i guess, no pun intended, "you're mileage may vary" is true. I would make the deciison based on when the mpg's matter the most to you.

 

[Stryder106]

I'm interested to know - what are your RPMs at 75 with the 33s and 4.10s? In my rig, 75 with 32 and 4.10 I'm at ~2050-2100. I think our wheelbases are the same - isn't the Avalanche on a Suburban frame? I always thought it was. Hmmmmmmm - you could be right on the "appearance" of it being that tall due to the low angle of the photo.

My concern is I really am not sure as to how much higher I'm going to be right now. I've seen posts on EP with guys putting in 2" of leveling lift and 285 tires and their fender height goes from 35" to 37.5". I'm at 39.5". So, if this kit would really only get me an additional 2-4" above where I currently am and let me run a 35" tire - I would not hesitate.

 

[mccustomize]

With 37s and 4.88s I turn 2100 at 70mph. Don't fear the gear, it's all about the journey right? I'd rather go slower and take backroads anyway, I would do 5.13s with 37s if I could do it all over again.

 

[Stryder106]

Time for more updates. As I continue to use my rig with the new fabbed out rear dual swing out bumper, I realize what I miss about my original bumper (foot step to get on the back of my rig) and little things to change about the new one.
As mentioned, I never realized how much I used the side step on my original bumper - until I didn't have it anymore. We were going to completely remove the side plates and add in steps on the fabbed bumper, but then I was perusing the 4WheelParts magazine and came across some footpegs for JEEP JKs. I guess it's cool to take your doors off and drive around with your leg OUTSIDE of the vehicle as these attach to the door hinges. I'm not into that, but, they did present an appealing solution to MY problem. So, off to 4WP and purchased a set. This past weekend, we added some bungs to them and welded them between the upper and lower bumper tubes. They are perfect and look cool - can't wait for someone to ask me about my Smittybilt bumper - LOL. Anyway, they sit flush, then just pull it out to use as a step. They work great and are completely integrated. Take a look.

One other thing that was added, was latch pins (also in the pic above the footpeg). With the dual swingouts, came the issue of keeping them open when not sitting level. Welded in a few bungs with some pins and drilled a few holes. Voila - swingouts now stay in place.




Also did some serious trimming of the fenders and firewall to make room for 35" tires without having to lift my rig. Once the General Grabber x3 35"s are on, the G2 4.88 gears, the ARB Air Locker, and the ARB Twin Compressor are all put on early next week, I'll post pics and decide if I want to lift it at all.

 

[chilliwak]

Looks like some cool:Wow1: little mods you got going there Stryder. Good work!

 

[Stryder106]

Update Time - this one was expensive. I added G2 4.88 gears front and rear along with the new RD222 ARB Air Locker. NOTE for GM 10 Bolt guys (like me) - the old ARB Air Locker for our stuff (RD84) has just been replaced - literally - with the RD222. The new one is complete new design that cuts moving parts by 50% which in turn improves reliability and strength - it's now 35% stronger that the RD84. So, keep that in mind if you are buying one - make sure you get the RD222 - or if you are cool with the RD84, you should be able to negotiate a good price break on it. Since my gears were being changed, I went ahead and had all of the bearings and seals replaced for the axels as well. I tried to use the ARB Strengthening diff cover, but it would not clear the ring gear - odd. Called ARB and they said it could be clearance up to an 1/8" without issue, but it was hitting literally everywhere - like it was the wrong part. Confirmed it was the correct part, but I wasn't comfortable with it. Tried a G2 cover and it wouldn't clear my sway bar. So, stock cover is back on for now until I can figure out another solution.

To power the locker, I purchased the ARB Twin Compressor. I figured, if I have to have a compressor for the lockers, I may as well use the best one they make that allows me to run my rig, air up and air down and ditch my C02 bottle freeing up some space and weight. Shocked they fit it under my hood, the placement - while convenient - makes me really really happy that I changed valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, spark plug wires last week.


New Tires. Many of you know my saga of my Pro Comp X-Treme AT tires (285/70-17). Pro Comp honored the warranty, so I went for the newly released General Tire Grabber x3 in 35x12.50-17. Complicating matters, I wanted to go to a 35" tire, but also didn't want to lift my rig what I was being told was a required 6.5" minimum to fit that tire. Did some fenderwell and firewall trimming all the way around and needless to say - I could run a 37" tire without lifting it (there is a lot of excess stuff in an Avalanche fenderwell). Love the new 35"s and there is absolutely no rubbing at all. My rig is leveled, but not lifted. Note: These tires, inflated on my rig, measure right at 35" - not the typical 34.59".


These new tires actually look like they are the correct size for my rig now. I always thought my 285/70-17 looked too small. I am surprised the 35"s don't look bigger on my rig - really surprised. I think they fill the newly modded fenderwells nicely.



My spare tire on my dual swingout was my stock spare. I purchased a matching ProComp Rockwell wheel and a 5th Grabber x3. Think the swingout now looks like it should and I have a fully functional spare matching my other tires/wheels.
Before


After


I use a 0 offset wheel, as I want it to go inside of my fenderwell on compression and the strength it offers over the mall crawler and bro-dozer setups. I am really happy with how the truck looks. It drives so much better and smoother compared to the Pro Comps. No road noise at all, no shimmy. As far as my gear choice goes, I'm very pleased. I had 4.10 gears with 285/70-17. Now, with the 4.88 35x12.50-17 - the truck has much more torque from a dead stop, gets moving with much less effort, but on the highway in overdrive, I'm only ~200 RPM above where I was with the previous gear/tire combo. At 70mph I'm 2150-2200. As for the new stance, you guys can be the judge, but I don't think I need to lift it. If I ever do decide to, it will be 4.5" lift rather than the big 6.5"+ kits they were trying to put me into.
Before


After

 

[ExplorerTom]

I have diff covers from SOLID Axle.

 

[Stryder106]

More Updates: In the run up to our Mojave Road trip, I am thrashing to get my rig as ready as possible for our first multi-day on the trail adventure. Today, added a steering stabilizer to the front end, trimmed a little more off of the left front inner fender (slight rub during a compressed turn) to get rid of a rub, added cable leashes to the latch pins on the dual swingout. Also, determined that the rear track bar is likely to be the weakpoint in the rear assembly. So, we took the measurements today and my buddy is fabbing a serious chromoly tube rear trackbar for added strength - that should be on the rig middle of this week. Additionally, we were discussing the stresses on the suspension due to overlanding - the added weight and the longer duration trails compared to off-roading. My Avalanche currently has aftermarket shocks specifically built for my rig and what, at the time, was off-roading; along with the factory Z-71 coils. To deal with the added weight of overlanding, I had added Air Lift 1000# air bags inside of my rear coils but I was discussing that I'm not a big fan of having to air up the bags to deal with the weight because it makes the rear end a bit "springy" over bumps. So, we are looking to fab and swap out the rear shocks for coilover rear shocks with a remote reservoir to keep performance up over longer distances. We are also considering tube-style chromoly trailing arms for additional strength and performance. Stay Tuned..................