My camper ideas, thoughts, and plans...

[Metcalf]

Joaquin,

I really do appreciate your comments and suggestions. I really do like the feedback....

I know the box is going to be small. The good thing is that I am changing from tents and the back of pickups to a unimog! I think the camper is going to be pretty spacious

I think my design is a compromise between storage space and living space. You have to take stuff with you as well as having a place to sleep, eat, shower, and well...you know. I'm worried about not having enough space for everything more than I am worried about having enough living space. I don't want to have stuff bolted all over the camper box. You have to bolt it down, the weight is all over the place, and everything is scattered about. I have a bit of OCD when it comes to things being very simple while being clean in design and function. I want everything to have its place. If I just wanted a ton of living area I would get one of these...

I want a SMALLer expedition unimog. I'm thinking more along the lines of a light unimog instead of a heavy landrover. I want to keep the size convservative so that I can get places the bigger campers can't usually go.

I do think you have a point about the stealth camping. I don't think any kind of expedition camper is going to be stealthy. You might black out the windows, but your still going to get pepole stopping by. Hell, I know if I saw a unimog camper...any unimog for that mattter...I would poke around it.

I am a little bit worried about the pop up as far as height goes. I could see some instances when it might be a little harder to find a place to pop the top. With tight spots, trees overhead, etc....

I think the bikes are a great form of secondary transportation. I have done a bit of research. The bikes from http://www.montagueco.com have had really good reviews and stand up to real use. I want to have something to ride to get around, have a little fun, and stay in shape. You can even get a nice case for these bikes to fit in....

I dont' have much faith in RoRo. It seems that everything I read mentions problems with theft, dings, having to remove everything from the cab, locking the camper up like a safe, dents, missing gear, problems with salt spray, etc. I REALLY want to be able to use an ISO container.

Yes, the pop up style camper will cost more to build. Its a challenge also, and that is one of the reasons why I am doing this project. I want to build it not just buy it.....

 

[Metcalf]

I'm pretty sure that this is the website of the people that own the 1300L camper that Joaquin posted a picture of....

http://www.members.shaw.ca/barbspl/index.htm

From this picture....

The layout of the camper looks very similar to my first design. Fixed bed in the rear with storage under, table for two on one side of the isle, and the kitchen on the other. I don't know about a bathroom. The only realy difference to me is the fixed top vs my pop-top system.

Wait to you guys see my new design. I don't know if its a good thing or now, but when the top is down most all the space is used for storage ( but you can still get at most everything ). Then after the top is up you have full use of the living space. You could live in it with the top down and have room to sleep, use the bathroom, get to the fridge, but the standing height would not be there. I don't know if this would be a good thing or not?

There has been a very good point raised about being able to live in the camper without the top being up.....debates anyone...

 

[Metcalf]

I knew I saw a unimog with a triangle pop-up somewhere....

Its a super small pic but its from this site...lots of of unimog campers....

http://www.xor.org.uk/unimog/campermog.htm

Does anyone have any more info on this unimog camper? Owners info?

 

[Metcalf]

I found a slightly better version of the picture at...

http://www.desert-aventure.com

 

[Robthebrit]

I would ditch the sloping roof, its just more to go wrong and if it gets stuck down your camper is going to be very uncomfortable. If you insist on it make it mechanical or manual.

I would make a folding bed, in your drawings the bed takes a lot of room and you don't use it most of the time. My camper has an ingenious queensized fold up bed. It only takes about 18 inches of cabin space when its folded up, when its down it covers the table and a bench but the remainder of the camper such as the storage units, kitchen and bathroom are still available.

Rob

 

[Metcalf]

I really think that to have a lower profile camper box that will allow the unimog to fit in a container ( even with container wheels ) the top is going to have to raise and lower in some fashion. I can either have a triangle pop-up like I designed above, or I can make a full box type pop up like the unicats and others. I have been working on both designs.

In general the camper would not be very functional with the top down. This is going to have to be a compromise of some kind any way you look at it. The only way around this is to have a fixed room and accept an overall larger size. I don't think that I am willing to do that. I want to retain the lower overall size to keep transport costs down and allow the camper to fit more places. I think height is just as important as width in this regard.

I do think in any camper that you will spend a considerable portion of the time spent inside the camper in the bed. Personally I want a ready made bed that I can jump right in without having to convert anything. This is a personal choice for us. I just think after a long day on the road it would be nice to be able to just plop down in bed with little fuss. I would also like to be able to use the seating area while using the bed. This way when someone isn't feeling the best, maybe with a touch of a cold or flu, they can stay in bed while the other parts of the camper remain useful. You can cook, use the bathroom, or use the computer at the table.

Essentially I am looking at designing the camper so that when the top is down as much of the volume inside the camper is used for storage and features ( refrigerator, cabinets, sink, etc ). It would be nice to be able to retain the use of most of the features when the top is down, but I don't know how much this will happen. When the camper is in the up position the added volume can be used for living space. This will provide room to sleep, stand, and sit at the table.

The raising top will not be as reliable as a fixed top camper. This is true no matter what. There are more moving parts. I am accepting that it will not be as simple and reliable. If built well with quality parts and as simple a system as possible it should not be an issue. The tops on Alaskan campers raise and lower. Friend of mine have one that is at least 20 years old and they use it extensively on and off road with no issues.

Right now I am looking designing a full stroke roof camper. Its just another idea to think about. There will be more volume to work with, but the complexity goes up. The main door and pass through to the cab become much more complicated to design. Ideally I want everything, including the spare tire, to fit inside a 3700mm long by 2250mm wide box that is only a little bit above the height of the roof of the unimog.

Here is one design I came up with....though I think its a little too complex to seal from the weather effectively.

Here is a short animation of the camper lowering....



As soon as I get more time I will post up some other ideas and thoughts...

 

[Spikepretorius]

Hi. I'm a newbie here.

What sort of price range would you guys budget for a Unimog camper like that in the States?
There's a fully restored and kitted out camper for sale here in South Africa. They did the trip from London to SA then didn't know what to do with it afterwards. It's in storage here till they either sell it or return one day. The asking price is ZAR200k negotiable. Off the top of my head that's about US$26k

 

[Blair G]

I really think that to have a lower profile camper box that will allow the unimog to fit in a container ( even with container wheels ) the top is going to have to raise and lower in some fashion. I can either have a triangle pop-up like I designed above, or I can make a full box type pop up like the unicats and others. I have been working on both designs.

In general the camper would not be very functional with the top down. This is going to have to be a compromise of some kind any way you look at it. The only way around this is to have a fixed room and accept an overall larger size. I don't think that I am willing to do that. I want to retain the lower overall size to keep transport costs down and allow the camper to fit more places. I think height is just as important as width in this regard.

I do think in any camper that you will spend a considerable portion of the time spent inside the camper in the bed. Personally I want a ready made bed that I can jump right in without having to convert anything. This is a personal choice for us. I just think after a long day on the road it would be nice to be able to just plop down in bed with little fuss. I would also like to be able to use the seating area while using the bed. This way when someone isn't feeling the best, maybe with a touch of a cold or flu, they can stay in bed while the other parts of the camper remain useful. You can cook, use the bathroom, or use the computer at the table.

Essentially I am looking at designing the camper so that when the top is down as much of the volume inside the camper is used for storage and features ( refrigerator, cabinets, sink, etc ). It would be nice to be able to retain the use of most of the features when the top is down, but I don't know how much this will happen. When the camper is in the up position the added volume can be used for living space. This will provide room to sleep, stand, and sit at the table.

The raising top will not be as reliable as a fixed top camper. This is true no matter what. There are more moving parts. I am accepting that it will not be as simple and reliable. If built well with quality parts and as simple a system as possible it should not be an issue. The tops on Alaskan campers raise and lower. Friend of mine have one that is at least 20 years old and they use it extensively on and off road with no issues.

Right now I am looking designing a full stroke roof camper. Its just another idea to think about. There will be more volume to work with, but the complexity goes up. The main door and pass through to the cab become much more complicated to design. Ideally I want everything, including the spare tire, to fit inside a 3700mm long by 2250mm wide box that is only a little bit above the height of the roof of the unimog.

Here is one design I came up with....though I think its a little too complex to seal from the weather effectively.

Here is a short animation of the camper lowering....



As soon as I get more time I will post up some other ideas and thoughts...

Like I said before, I am a big fan of the raising roof. Since I think I have decided to keep the 1300 (SBU DOKA prices are steep and the dollar is weak) I will build a truck using what I have. I do think that having a camper that is not really usable in the stowed position is a mistake. Wheather or not you have a ready made bed is a personal decision, having said that and having a 1300 with a camper, I would lean towards having a seperate benchs that convert into a single bed. This would allow the benches to be used as bunks or combined to make one big bed. Not really all that sexy but functional. I have spent time in a couple of different Unicats. Both based on the 2450 and each having a different bed setup. One has separate bunks, with storage underneath. The the friends have a slide out that converts in to a bed when they want it to be. However both have the option of being used with out having to do much. Evan Richard's camper with the slideout can have the bed made with out slideing out the extension.
Also, on the design above you have eliminated the fuel tank location and the stock battery location. While the batteries can be moved else where for the chassis, fuel needs to be accounted for. Before you go to much further I would suggest you actually buy a chassis or at least find one in person so that you can take pictures of the things you have to design around. Your current design also interferes with the chassis and the mounting of the bed on the rear.
Also, while I understand the shipping issue. I really would not obsess over it. It will only occupy a small portion of your time while driving. It can be overcome by shipping in a Hicube container. It may cost a little more but you would not have to limit your design based on a small portion of travel.
Blair

 

[Spikepretorius]

It was posted on my "home" forum a while back. I'll do a search and get back to you.

 

[stevenmd]

Wow, all great ideas. Has anyone ever seen a setup that can accommodate a family of 6? We have 4 kids and really love the idea of taking a vehicle like this and travel instead of taking the kids to Disneyland every year. Give them something unique to remember about their childhood.

 

[Spikepretorius]

Here's the url of the owners:
http://www.tiretracks.org/mogforsale/

If needed I can put you in touch with the guy in SA who is looking after it for them. He's not affiliated to them. He just offered to store it for them when they made enquiries on our local forum.

I'm pretty sure that price is very negotiable because locals don't have that kind of money to buy it.

 

[Robthebrit]

Like I said before, I am a big fan of the raising roof. Since I think I have decided to keep the 1300 (SBU DOKA prices are steep and the dollar is weak) I will build a truck using what I have. I do think that having a camper that is not really usable in the stowed position is a mistake. Wheather or not you have a ready made bed is a personal decision, having said that and having a 1300 with a camper, I would lean towards having a seperate benchs that convert into a single bed. This would allow the benches to be used as bunks or combined to make one big bed. Not really all that sexy but functional. I have spent time in a couple of different Unicats. Both based on the 2450 and each having a different bed setup. One has separate bunks, with storage underneath. The the friends have a slide out that converts in to a bed when they want it to be. However both have the option of being used with out having to do much. Evan Richard's camper with the slideout can have the bed made with out slideing out the extension.
Also, on the design above you have eliminated the fuel tank location and the stock battery location. While the batteries can be moved else where for the chassis, fuel needs to be accounted for. Before you go to much further I would suggest you actually buy a chassis or at least find one in person so that you can take pictures of the things you have to design around. Your current design also interferes with the chassis and the mounting of the bed on the rear.
Also, while I understand the shipping issue. I really would not obsess over it. It will only occupy a small portion of your time while driving. It can be overcome by shipping in a Hicube container. It may cost a little more but you would not have to limit your design based on a small portion of travel.
Blair

I agree with Blair, what are the plans for fuel? I am guessing you'll get around 10mpg on or off road so you should be looking at 100 gallons or more. Trucks this big cannot assume you can refuel at the next stop as they may not have enough to give you, you have to be able to drive to the next place.

The startng batteries for a mog are 8D's, you have two of them if its 24v. Finding a location for them is difficult because you need easy access and you need to be able to lift 150+ pounds otherwise you cannot get then out. While you probably don't need batteries this big you do need something that can source 1000+ amps. I wouldn't want to have to rely on a couple of Optima's to start a mog in the middle of the arctic.

I don't agree with you on the bed, you camper is not useable at all without the roof raised so you can't get straight into bed. My bed takes literally 10 seconds to unfold and you can unfold it half way into a couch too. I can also drive with the bed in any position and while driving its fully useable so one person can sleep while one drives which is awesome for long stretches.

You may also want to think about cross ventilation while stationary any while moving, maybe the sides of your popup roof are removable? When driving simply an open window or roof hatch will suffice. You want hatches t be on the roof to let the hot air out. Yesterday it was 38C at my house and it was 46C in the closed box, as soon as I opened the roof with the door open the temperature dropped in seconds.

Rob

 

[Metcalf]

I want to thank everyone for there input, ideas, thoughts and comments! This is turning into a really good thread with a broad base of opinions and ideas.

Onto the questions...

The fuel tank will be moved to the drivers side. With a rough model of it done the capacity will be over 100 us gallons. I think it was around 134 last time I figured it up. It will be attached to the frame, not the camper box. There will not be a step down in the camper on the drivers side. There will be space above the fuel tank, between the tank and camper body, to allow for the camper to twist and move on the chassis without hitting each other. I have also been thinking about having the mounts for the sand ladders or waffles on top of the tank to limit the height you have to lift them to the storage position.

In my original design with the triangle pop up you could sit in the seating with the top down, and also convert it into a bed for road travel with the top down. In some of my new designs I have retained the center isle from the pass through to about 6-foot back so that this area can be used as a 'road bed'

Personally I want the overall box size of the camper to be pretty conservative. I think Oonimog has about the right idea on his L37. He posted in the beginning of the thread and I hope he post again! He has traveled a lot with his unimog and has found the rear box size to be a good compromise. Please go back and look at his pics and ideas. My camper will be very similar in size to his existing canvas covered box.....

Something like this would be cool.....

The bed. I think having a road bed is a good idea. I don't think that this has to be the same sleeping system as the others. I think having a center isle that could be used as a bed right behind the pass through to the cab would be a good compromise. I don't care how good of designer you are, you are going to have to compromise somewhere. We would also like to have the ability to have a bed and seating for a 3rd person. Idealy this would be friends or family members that would come for a visit and ride along for a week or so. The camper will mainly be built for two, but an optional 3rd would be very nice. I think a 4th person is pretty much out of the question with a standard cab Unimog.

I have been looking at some creative locations for the main starting batteries. I think they might fit in between the torque tube and frame rail. I hope I don't have to get to them that often in that location. I could wire up a remote plug for jumping and charging. Space is tight no matter what. I don't plan on running a pto to the rear so the space will be fairly free.

There will be windows, hatches and a skylight to provide ventilation. I just haven't bothered to put them into the designs yet. Things are still moving around too much. I think I may end up building my own windows since they will need to be fairly flush with the inside of the pop up. With them flush I can minimize the sealing distance. I hope this will allow me to use a off the shelf brush seal for the moving top. Once will be on the bottom and one on the moving top. This will provide dual seals to keep dust and bugs out. I may even look into using one rubber wiper seal and one brush seal.

Did I get everything?

 

[oonimog]

Hey there Metcalf,
A new camper design, it seems you've been busy while I was away! Did you get my last PM? Looks like there is some good discussion flying around so I guess I'll toss my 2 cents in.

Sloping roof or otherwise, for me, a low traveling profile is a necessity, not an option. Combine that with my desire to have full standing height while camping and you're not left with much choice but to move the roof. The ability to stuff the truck into a container certainly offers a lot of peace of mind over ro-ro. Of even greater importance, to me at least, is in maintaining the whole reason for choosing a Mog to begin with, it's awesome off road capability. As I think I've mentioned before, a big tall box pretty much kills the benefits that MB designed into the truck. I'm certainly not unique in having driven a Mog through some tough stuff and I can tell you that a big box would never have allowed this.

Most of the forest roads/trails in BC are through dense forest where clearance is a constant concern and my limb risers get a real workout (first picture). On the opposite end of the spectrum, any truck can cross hard pan desert, but in the dunes or severe side slopes, tall trucks with high CGs and a lot of weight hanging behind the rear axle make the going very difficult. I can show you video of a U1300L (3.25m wheelbase) with a tall, long camper box that spent as much time with the front wheels in the air as it did with them on ground. Not only does this make it difficult or impossible to climb dunes or cross side slopes, but consider the stress all that weight is putting on the rear axle. The driver of said Mog was so stressed, he finally split off from the group and left the dunes. He ended up selling the Mog and buying another and now plans a much more compact camper. The second picture doesn't really do it justice, but the inclinometer in the green Mog was maxx'ed out past 35 degrees. I doubt you're doing that with a tall camper...


As you've mentioned, moving roofs have been around for many years and while there are a few parts involved, none of them is very prone to failure. We're talking about basic stuff here so if the design is good, I think it can perform well for many years.

Rob's point about the folding bed is a good one. A clever folding bed can be deployed in seconds and does allow for significanly more living space. Though I would have liked to build in such a bed, my need for storage (under the double bed) overrides the benefit of the added living space. So for me at least, the fixed double makes more sense. In my design, the bed is useable even with the roof down because it's about 3 feet off the floor and the interior height is about 5 feet. Having at least one bed, converted dinette or fixed, that can be used while moving is important. It allows someone to rest while moving or, as you've mentioned, to deal with illness. This has happened on trips more than once.

Rob also brought up the issue of ventilation and this should not be underestimated. In the last two pictures, you can see that the roof of the camper opens, providing fresh air and lots of light. After many days of camping inside that box, the fresh air really becomes necessary...

As far as the chassis details are concerned, I don't think it will be too dificult to arrange the batteries and fuel tanks to work around your design (remember, you have more chassis length to work with). In the third picture you can see that the battery box is flush with the back edge of the cab and there are two fuel tanks hanging on one side. You could hang both on the driver's side instead, giving you over 80 gallons. This arrangement provides more than 900 miles of range for me. Besides the two tanks currently on it, I also had another 270L (70 gallon) tank on it but never used it. I've since removed it and in fact, it's for sale.

Still, finalizing a design without having the truck is going to be risky but then, I'd guess you're not going to build the camper until you have the truck. If you want any dimensions or pictures of my L37, let me know. I hope I haven't put you to sleep...

Regards,
OO

 

[Metcalf]

Thanks for the reply Oonimog. I think I might have missed a PM, but I did send you an e-mail reply and never heard back! I was rambling, but I hope you have some knowledge to pass on. I loved your pics, where these from the trip you just got back from? Please send me some more by e-mail if you get a chance. I'd love to see an inside shot of the green l37 camper. That looks like a very impressive truck.

I'm still working on build list and price range for Hellgeth. I pretty much have my heart set on an l37.....its gonna cost me I'm sure.

I resized and hosted your pics so they show up inline at the right size. I am also going to point out a few things for everyone to comment on.

This is a major reason why I want a low profile and smaller stature camper system. You would really have to push hard to get anything bigger in areas like this. The corners on a taller camper box would got really worked over on trails like this. I plan on using the unimog to its limits...

This is a very impressive truck! Is it for sale This is very close to what I have in mind for overall size. I would say that I might even have the box be a slight bit shorter. The length is great ( around 3700mm? ). This will also make a very good picture to photochop my camper ideas onto for inspiration. Though you could have a box this long on a standard 3250mm wheelbase 1300L I think it would cause some problems like the ones mentioned. Departure angle would suffer as would weight distribution. In my opinion keeping as much of the weight as low as possible and forward as practical will lead to a much better handling chassis.

I've seen this spare tire placement before and love the idea. I don't know if I will be able to use it, but its pretty slick. I have thought about it in a few of my designs and may go back to it. This keeps a very heavy piece of required equipment forward and low in the chassis. I was thinking that one could use the sand ladders or waffles you are are already carrying to form a ramp to allow the tire to be rolled to the ground. These tire are very heavy and most likely mechanically assisted assistance will be required to get them to the ground. Depending on the terrain just rolling one of these around on the ground can be a real workout. When working with one of these tires in any area with sloped ground keep a tether on it. I was changing a tire once on a tight two track road and had it get away from me over the bank. It promptly rolled all the way to the bottom of the canyon. It took the better part of a day to get it out. Lesson learned.

This is why I want a low center of gravity. I am trying to keep all the very heavy items as low as possible. This needs to be taken into account when designing in space for water tanks, fuel tanks, batteries, spare tires, tools, chains, etc. Weight adds up extremely quick.

This is just a nice photo. Also notice the 1300L behind the green camper. Its roof is even lower. Its flush with the top of the cab.

I have a few questions up for input....

How much fuel to carry? Its easy to say lots. I am planning on right around 100gallons. Multiple tanks seem to be the consensus for redundancy. With a diesel vehicle should you bother to carry a 5 gallon can of petrol?

How much fresh water storage? Should all the water be filtered or just the water used for drinking? Is there a need for a equal size large greywater tank?

I hope everyone is enjoying this thread as much as I am.