Antichrist
Expedition Leader
Well, I never bought a new 130, so don't know. I'm just surprised Land Rover would do that at the same time they are putting this in the owners handbook:
NATO Wolf Tubed vs Tubeless
- Thread starter craig
- Start date
craig
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Thanks Tom. That's the same info I received from two other friends who are Land Rover techs with a ton of experience w/ tubes. Specifically, a radial tire needs a radial tube.
I also learned that modern radial tires are smooth on the inside so they don't typically puncture tubes like the older radials that had ridges inside.
From the collective input, it sounds as though tubeless tires on tubed rims will work fine as long as one doesn't air down much below about 18psi.
Craig
craig
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
While other things might work, that right there is the definitive answer.
Tubed rims + radial tube + tubeless tire is what I'm going to try.
Specifically:
NATO Wolf ANR5593
Michelin Air Stop Tubes
235/85-R16 BFG MT KM2
If I start killing tubes, I'll try the same combo w/o the tubes.
Thanks everyone, including Gordon Perrot at Lamorna Garage in Seattle WA, and David Jenden at RoverTech in Kirkland WA, for the input.
Last edited:
Series1Rangie
Adventurer
Not true for bfg km2s. Mine have ridges.
jrose609
Explorer
Did you decide against the Series rims?
craig
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
I never heard back from the guy. My first choice has always been NATOs though.
jrose609
Explorer
Bummer. Doug Shipman in Portland has quite a few wheels sitting around. I sold him a set of five NATOs about a year ago. You might talk to him or his son Neal.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
I'm pretty sure a set of Michelins I had had ribs inside that I ran tubes with. I stiff have one of them in the garage, I'll check later to see.
overlander
Expedition Leader
Craig, to clarify my position and experience,
- I have never run my original tubed (michelin x) or tubeless tires lower than 20 psi
- If I carried a tube as a spare for overlanding, it would be for getting from the bush to a population center where I could repair/replace my original tubeless tire. Not for continuous running.
- I am aware that if I run to low on my current setup, I'll likely break bead easier than with a tubeless rim.
- I intend to get inner locks to protect me in event of a blowout for my rims. BFG MT's don't seem to blow out though, but you never know.
Series1Rangie
Adventurer
The tire guy in Moab (where I ended up after that 1st flat) said that with the correct tube I would have been fine with the bfgs and tubes. We decided that it wasn't necessary and his recommendation was to get a quality valve stem and use sealer on the valve stem and bead when seated to help keep the creep of sand and dirt in around the bead down, especially when aired down. Another point he made was that standard rim mount weights do not aid in tire to wheel grip at low pressures, and he uses stick on weights covered with duck tape on the inside of the wheel to bypass this. It seems to be working so far. I have run mud, sand, highway, and rocky trails since this last mount and balance with no issues. Sometimes those older experienced guys really know what they are talking about. :smiley_drive:
MMM
craig
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Thanks. I'll give him a call if this deal doesn't work out.
Ray Hyland
Expedition Leader
I ran tubeless rims/tubeless tires with tubes in them for a number of years. I still carry a tube with me for emergency repairs.
Before beadlocks became popular or common this was what we did for the jungles of malaysia and thailand to air down enough to clean the clay out of the lugs, somewhere around 16-18 psi - soft enough to flex.
The tires we were running were the Deestone Bias Ply (a Thai copy of the old Goodyear military "tetris-style" tire, maybe also called the Goodyear Traction Tire, we also ran the Goodyear Wrangler MT's (radial, older style), the Geolander MT Radial, BFG AT (Radial), and original Simex Centipede (Bias).
We never had any issues with the tubes when offroading at those pressures. Below 14 psi you knew that if you gave it too much power you could tear the stem off the tube, so you would just be more careful. Usually you only needed those lower pressures in conditions where you wanted to stay on top, so you would never use much power in those situations anyways.
When we DID have tube issues was running the tires at high speed on the highway, on a hot day. So if you were running at 30psi, at 120kmh on the highway, and the ambient temperature is 40 degrees C, (104 F) then sure enough, someone in the convoy would call over the radio that they had a flat, or two.
Fixing a tube in a tubeless tire is a PITA even when you have done it a few times. Not technically difficult, but not something you want to do on the side of the highway. Carry a ready spare on the back of the truck, and a few tubes and patches in the tool box, and patch the tube around the campfire that evening.
Hope that added some value.
Cheers
Ray
Before beadlocks became popular or common this was what we did for the jungles of malaysia and thailand to air down enough to clean the clay out of the lugs, somewhere around 16-18 psi - soft enough to flex.
The tires we were running were the Deestone Bias Ply (a Thai copy of the old Goodyear military "tetris-style" tire, maybe also called the Goodyear Traction Tire, we also ran the Goodyear Wrangler MT's (radial, older style), the Geolander MT Radial, BFG AT (Radial), and original Simex Centipede (Bias).
We never had any issues with the tubes when offroading at those pressures. Below 14 psi you knew that if you gave it too much power you could tear the stem off the tube, so you would just be more careful. Usually you only needed those lower pressures in conditions where you wanted to stay on top, so you would never use much power in those situations anyways.
When we DID have tube issues was running the tires at high speed on the highway, on a hot day. So if you were running at 30psi, at 120kmh on the highway, and the ambient temperature is 40 degrees C, (104 F) then sure enough, someone in the convoy would call over the radio that they had a flat, or two.
Fixing a tube in a tubeless tire is a PITA even when you have done it a few times. Not technically difficult, but not something you want to do on the side of the highway. Carry a ready spare on the back of the truck, and a few tubes and patches in the tool box, and patch the tube around the campfire that evening.
Hope that added some value.
Cheers
Ray