Need help choosing between a new Roush ford ranger, Colorado zr2 (gas) or a Toyota Tacoma.

rruff

Explorer
Because after 27yrs of Toyota trucks my self you need to be completely out of touch with reality to think the Tacoma is anything but dated over priced crap at this point.

But more relaible and cheaper to own than the others... Best to buy new Toyotas, since they don't depreciate enough IMO.

Based on what I've seen in this thread, the GM auto-4wd might get the nod if I was in a snowy area. Traditional truck 4wd sucks if you are driving on surfaces where traction is sometimes good and sometimes not, or there are lots of sharp turns.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
But more relaible and cheaper to own than the others... Best to buy new Toyotas, since they don't depreciate enough IMO.

Based on what I've seen in this thread, the GM auto-4wd might get the nod if I was in a snowy area. Traditional truck 4wd sucks if you are driving on surfaces where traction is sometimes good and sometimes not, or there are lots of sharp turns.
Anyone who buys any depreciating vehicle based on imaginary future value is the same buyer who tells the sales staff what monthly payment amount he can afford.
 

rruff

Explorer
Anyone who buys any depreciating vehicle based on imaginary future value is the same buyer who tells the sales staff what monthly payment amount he can afford.
That makes no sense. Depreciation is a real cost of ownership... it's no more "imaginary" than the future cost of fuel, insurance, repairs, and maintenance. In addition, poor reliability is a high cost in annoyance even if not $$$ (ie extended warranty).
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Having used the GM Canyon now -- which will have more or less the same 4x4 system as the Colorado -- I can say it's absolutely wonderful in those mixed seasons of snow and wet. This is especially useful in mountainous country. Mine is a 2017 with the V6 , and I jokingly refer to it as my "sports truck" because it handles and drives so well. I would say "consider the Canyons alongside the Colorados" but there are fewer aftermarket bits for the Canyons, and not everything Colorado is guaranteed to work (i.e. the AEV snorkel fits, but slightly differently than on the Colorado; same with bumpers and such).

I would second the suggestion that you take a look at the Nissan Frontiers. They look great, and while the old frontier definitely was dated, I can't find anyone who faults their reliability or capability relative to their peers. Sure, the last-gen Frontier looked pretty poor against the modern Colorado/Canyon/Ranger/Taco -- but it came out over a decade ago, where it was competing with the previous generation of mid-sized rigs. The new Frontier looks to be able to go toe-to-toe with any modern midsize and hold its own, and they are very competitively priced.

For an individual, the day-to-day use of the truck will likely be equally reliable across the major brands. You can always get a Friday Afternoon car, or a lemon, from any manufacturer, but the overall gap between them is much more narrow than it used to be which means most modern cars are pretty good. I personally would not consider resale value as part of the equation, because that's often built into the new price of the rig and so it seems a bit of a wash. In other words, a 10 year old Toyota may be worth $5k more than a 10 year old Canyon, but you pay for that difference on the sticker price up front for that option. If two trucks were equally priced today, and I liked both equally and they achieved the same goal, then maybe resale of one or the other would be the tipping factor for me, but it's far down the list of priorities.
 

Amxguy1970

New member
Why is it that when anyone recommends Tacoma's they are automatically a "fan boy"...no one says that about any of the folks here recommending the Ford or the Chevy....strange.

See below. They are the bottom of the barrel in most areas. Plus the guy that said that, his name was "FJ"...

Because after 27yrs of Toyota trucks my self you need to be completely out of touch with reality to think the Tacoma is anything but dated over priced crap at this point. Buy a 12yr old Tacoma with an updated head unit you get a better truck?

You will find that the lockers are worth their weight in gold, when the need arises. Good luck with your purchase.

Yeah no, 99.8% of people will never put it in a position where that is of any benefit that a good electronic based system in front can't get you through combined with a rear locker. Never understood all the talk of them now, they are horrible to have in an IFS and a liability with the movements they make when locked. Now it is a conversation point at the local starbucks rather then an actual need for most.

Some guy on the Colorado forums bragged needing it on the street during a snow storm in Texas.

Give me a rear locker with an electronic brake based system up front in my IFS DD adventure rig and it will get me where I need to go all the time.

A dedicated trail rig that is off pushing the limits, a locker can be useful, but for most going down a 2-3 rated trail in their DD on a fire road, a locker is nothing more than a conversation piece to try and sound mighty to the Raptor owner...

But more relaible and cheaper to own than the others... Best to buy new Toyotas, since they don't depreciate enough IMO.

This isn't the 80's and 90's, they are no more reliable than any of the other trucks. Tacoma world is riddled with issues and problems. Reliability is perceived from decades ago, not current.

And they may have 1-2% better resale but that is no reason to buy an inferrior truck that is on the same reliable spectrum as the others.

Personally to the OP, I would go with a Z71 over a ZR2 and add anything I may want. It would be cheaper, get better mpg and although the shocks are fantastic, their longevity is questionable and expensive.

The Tremor is a great package minus the whole black wheel and colored accent thing making the rounds. The rest of the truck though is lacking and it has a smaller rear seat than the GM twins.

As others have said the auto 4wd with the GM twins if you live in a snowy area should be high on the list.

Tyler
 
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SDDiver5

Expedition Leader
Ranger tremor over Ranger Roush is my opinion. The Roush package is mainly just a bunch of lame appearance stuff for any ford truck model.
 

rruff

Explorer
This isn't the 80's and 90's, they are no more reliable than any of the other trucks. Tacoma world is riddled with issues and problems. Reliability is perceived from decades ago, not current.

And they may have 1-2% better resale but that is no reason to buy an inferrior truck that is on the same reliable spectrum as the others.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ford and GM owners thought their rigs were just as reliable in the 80s and 90s also. Problems are always in the past...

I looked up Consumer Reports data. Reliability is scored from 1 (not zero) to 5. I averaged the scores from 2000-2021 (22 years). The Ford and GM midsize trucks haven't been made long enough to really compare, so I looked at the fullsize 1/2 tons instead. Fair enough?

Tacoma 4.14
Tundra 4.57
F150 2.18
GM 1.91


It ain't close... reality rather than perception. You can look on Edmunds for cost of ownership data, or just check prices online to get resale values. You're wrong about that also...
 

jmmaxus

Member
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ford and GM owners thought their rigs were just as reliable in the 80s and 90s also. Problems are always in the past...

I looked up Consumer Reports data. Reliability is scored from 1 (not zero) to 5. I averaged the scores from 2000-2021 (22 years). The Ford and GM midsize trucks haven't been made long enough to really compare, so I looked at the fullsize 1/2 tons instead. Fair enough?

Tacoma 4.14
Tundra 4.57
F150 2.18
GM 1.91


It ain't close... reality rather than perception. You can look on Edmunds for cost of ownership data, or just check prices online to get resale values. You're wrong about that also...

I don’t think it’s fair to average the last 22 years of data as past Toyota Tacomas were much more reliable than current ones. I have a Consumer Reports membership myself and their predicted reliability is 5 different ratings of: far below, below, average, above, far above. The current GEN Tacoma predicted reliability is rated average and it’s vehicle score is 51. The Current GEN Ranger which scored the best out of midsize trucks (excluding the Honda Ridgeline) predicted reliability is Above Average and overall score is 62. I’m a Toyota fan myself and owned a 2006 Tacoma, but I wouldn’t buy a current one over the other midsize trucks.
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Todd780

OverCamper
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Ford and GM owners thought their rigs were just as reliable in the 80s and 90s also. Problems are always in the past...

I looked up Consumer Reports data. Reliability is scored from 1 (not zero) to 5. I averaged the scores from 2000-2021 (22 years). The Ford and GM midsize trucks haven't been made long enough to really compare, so I looked at the fullsize 1/2 tons instead. Fair enough?

Tacoma 4.14
Tundra 4.57
F150 2.18
GM 1.91


It ain't close... reality rather than perception. You can look on Edmunds for cost of ownership data, or just check prices online to get resale values. You're wrong about that also...
I think the past 5 years or so would be more accurate since the latest GM twins came out in 2015, Tacoma in 2016 and Ranger in 2019. I've had all makes and models of vehicles and they can all have their issues. It's a crapshoot. Buy what you like and roll the dice. Maybe get an extended warranty if possible.

Top 3 worst / most unreliable vehicles I owned ? (In no order)
1. 1987 1/2 Jaguar XJ6
2. 2000 Jeep TJ Sport (4.0L)
3. 1991 Toyota LC - FJ80

I've owned others with issues too. But those were the worst.
 

rruff

Explorer
I don’t think it’s fair to average the last 22 years of data as past Toyota Tacomas were much more reliable than current ones.

The person I was replying to specifically stated that 80s and 90s Toyotas were more reliable than domestics and that is how they got their rep, but more recently they are all the same. It ain't so. I'd like to know why you believe that has changed in the last few years, but wasn't true a decade ago... or 2, 3, or 4 decades ago. I've been alive long enough that I've heard this same story for 4 decades, but then it's always proved wrong... "but now it's different".

I think the past 5 years or so would be more accurate since the latest GM twins came out in 2015, Tacoma in 2016 and Ranger in 2019.

The problem with looking at only the last 5 years or less, is that you are only seeing initial issues. Scores are based on comparisons with other vehicles of the same age, and manufacturers have a strong incentive to make major systems last at least 5 years, since that's how long the warranties last (typically). That says nothing about long term durability and longevity, which is what I care about, and it is the reason why Toyotas have better resale value.
 

jmmaxus

Member
The person I was replying to specifically stated that 80s and 90s Toyotas were more reliable than domestics and that is how they got their rep, but more recently they are all the same. It ain't so. I'd like to know why you believe that has changed in the last few years, but wasn't true a decade ago... or 2, 3, or 4 decades ago. I've been alive long enough that I've heard this same story for 4 decades, but then it's always proved wrong... "but now it's different".



The problem with looking at only the last 5 years or less, is that you are only seeing initial issues. Scores are based on comparisons with other vehicles of the same age, and manufacturers have a strong incentive to make major systems last at least 5 years, since that's how long the warranties last (typically). That says nothing about long term durability and longevity, which is what I care about, and it is the reason why Toyotas have better resale value.

The 3rd Gen Tacoma has more reported problems e.g. crank, transmission, blower motor, differential leaks check the Tacoma forums and other sites, there are just more problems reported for this generation. Consumer Reports knocks the Tacoma pretty hard on overall score cause we’ll it rides the most truckish of the bunch and after test driving all I can confirm but that doesn’t matter when we are talking about reliability. Consumer Reports reliability measure is only “expected” reliability this can be based off of previous generations and I think what hurts the Tacoma more in this instance is that this generation has been around longer since 2015 and the more data that comes in the more that “expected” reliability is well a more reliable indicator. If the Ranger for instance gets a major recall or a number of people start rep petting the same problem I’d suspect it’s rating to go down.

What’s changed? well long ago they were manufactured/assembled in Japan much like the bullet proof current 4Runner is now. Then around 2007 more shifted to the U.S. Now they are manufactured in Mexico as well and Toyota is shifting even more to the point majority will be made there.


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ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
There are folks driving 20 year old Land Rovers that have served them flawlessly. (I admit, not many but some!) And there are folks who have had their Toyota's at the dealership more than their driveway. Again - not many, but some!

Reliability rankings are like lottery odds. Some brands might give you better odds of getting a reliable car than others, but once you've bought your ticket, all that matters is "is it the winner or isn't it". Rigs are the same -- once you buy it, all that matters is if yours is one of the 20-year flawless rigs, or is it one of the lemons, regardless of what badge is on the front. And, as others have said, the badge makes a lot less of a difference these days than it used to seem to make.

I say "seem" because there's also a marketing/propaganda angle to this. Reliability metrics imply a fundamental quality difference in vehicles, but it does not account for owner behaviour. Toyota's reputation for reliability has been partly a marketing decision, and that marketing typically attracted a certain kind of person -- I read this a few years ago and can't find the source, but for a really long time the type of person who purchased a Toyota was also likely to be the type of person who is a stickler for maintaining their vehicle. They are attracted to the reliability of Toyota because they like having reliable things and Toyota's marketing focused on that value; and they value maintaining their equipment because again, they like having reliable things. As a result, Toyotas in North America are (according to what I read) owned by folks who tend to take better care of them. And when you take better care of something, it lasts a long time. This creates a feedback loop that further enhances Toyota's reputation for reliability, but the data is a bit skewed because of this type of owner behaviour. Other brands who do not market their reliability but instead market their ability to zoom, be fun, or be similar to rocks will attract buyers with different values who may not prioritize maintenance as much so they don't get this "owner behaviour" boon on reliability statistics.

And, other manufacturers aren't dumb - they've studied Toyotas approach and tried to replicate versions of it throughout the years, and as a result, the gap in actual quality between Toyota and other marques isn't as big as it used to be, even though the reputation is still much stronger. Toyotas I don't think have gotten worse; I just think everyone else has gotten WAY better. This is especially true with the midsize trucks -- they've been going toe to toe with the Hilux for years in the global market, and at least as far as the GM Twins go, they are WAY better quality than even their fullsized cousins. Everything from the handling to the feeling of the switches just feels more well built in my Canyon than it ever did in my Silverado, and it's interesting to me that the Canyon was a joint venture between Isuzu and GM and later Mazda - for Isuzu its the DMax, for GM it's the Twins, and for Mazda it's the BT-50. the Dmax and BT50 play in markets with the Hilux (as does the Ranger), and that fierce competition has really forced them to up their game, which our domestic midsize trucks benefit from. To @Ruff's question, I think this is what's changed in the last decade or so. Others have gotten better - I don't think Toyota has gotten worse. And @rruff does have a good point about the longer time scale -- we know there are some million mile Tundras and Tacos, which is a testament to both their quality and their upkeep by their owners. It's a bit early days yet to see how common million mile Canyons and Rangers will be. I hope to keep mine nice enough and well maintained enough to be one of the first!

I guess in conclusion, I'll just say Toyotas are terrible and should be avoided at all costs. Now I shall sit back and enjoy the rest of this thread as the fireworks begin.

?????????????


(I'm kidding - I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is the gap is narrower than it used to be -- it's still there, but as I understand it, the gap can appear bigger because of owner behaviour which is not accounted for in reliability statistics. And more important than any of those statistics is whether you got a Monday-after-coffee car, or Friday-before-the-long-weekend car sitting in your driveway because all brands have great rigs and all brands have lemons, just in different proportions - and the difference in proportions is more slight today than it has been in the past).
 
Hey all,

I ended up going with a 2020 lariat fx4 ford ranger with 9000km on it. I have to say i am in absolute love with it. Currently after a trip in the mountains and daily commuting I'm averaging 8.4L/100km or 27.6mpg.

Compared to my previous Silverado 1500 this rides like a dream. It has everything I need in a truck including a rear locker and I'm excited to put it through its paces this winter when I'm snowboarding/camping.

It came down to what was I willing to pay and what was available and the Toyota dealers were not budging on price and had zero inventory anywhere near me. The Colorado was a fantastic purchase but they wanted over sticker and the mpg on the non diesel was crap. The frontier I couldn't get my head wrapped around how old the platform was.

In the end, once I drove the ranger I knew it was the one.
PXL_20220926_004157635.jpg
Thanks for all the help everyone.
 

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