Need help: Which trailer works best for us?

[goawaymore]

We think we like Kimberley Kamper and Karavan the best. Kamper meets almost all our requirements except for the canvas maintenance and potential issues for increment weather. Kavaran is almost perfect, expect less-than-ideal quick meal.
We might casually look at some more trailers, but we hope to talk with Dave Bates for final decision soon.

Thank you everyone, you helped us tremendously and provided overwhelming helpful information and suggestions. Hope you all enjoy your adventures with your beloved rig!

Definitely talk with Dave if you haven't already. Dave, and a few question/answers with Kimberley owners on Kimberley and Karavan threads in this forum helped make the Karavan our final decision. Some great options on the market, but the boxes that the Karavan checks, and the years/miles that owners have logged on them, make it a really great choice if it meets your needs.

My understanding is that there will be 1 or more Karavans at Expo East, along with other Kimberleys. I think @cmo5 may be there with their Karavan also. Also an east coast owner and was off on a 5-6k mile journey across Canada and back this summer....so might be able to answer any questions you have with some recent examples.

Good luck!

 

[rehammer81]

goodol, I have always been a fan of the Karavan. I think it is a great Swiss Army Knife. It is probably the trailer that has consistently stayed highest on my list. I believe it has unique value and capability with the hi-lo design, fixed full-size north/south queen bed, swing out toilet/shower stall to efficiently use space and keep the trailer smaller and more maneuverable. The nitpicking that for now holds me at bay is the lead time once I commit, the extra 10-15k to import and then just slightly the driver side orientation and not true 4 season water lines and storage.

From what I have seen of others selling their used Karavans, they hold their value well but they are going to have a smaller niche buyer pool. I have not seen anyone struggle to sell one yet though.

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[cmo5]

Yes, we'll be at Overland East in the vendor booth with Dave.

 

[ROA-OFFROAD]

You've been drinking too much of your own kool-aid. Nothing in the renderings on your website suggests this is anywhere close to an "elite, world class trailer."

The marketing surely has a few nice-sounding tidbits, but I find it hard to take you folks seriously when you list "Off-Road Rock Lighting" as a standard feature, but an MPPT solar controller and Thermal windows are something that only comes in the "Xtreme Package." Sounds to me like you're targeting the type of buyer that prioritizes wearing tactical underwear for their weekly pilgrimage to Walmart.

Easy to talk a big game before delivering a single unit.

It can be a bit confusing, but the extreme package is actually standard. I dont know why they do that but the extreme package is included in every unit.

 

[goawaymore]

goodol, I have always been a fan of the Karavan. I think it is a great Swiss Army Knife. It is probably the trailer that has consistently stayed highest on my list. I believe it has unique value and capability with the hi-lo design, fixed full-size north/south queen bed, swing out toilet/shower stall to efficiently use space and keep the trailer smaller and more maneuverable. The nitpicking that for now holds me at bay is the lead time once I commit, the extra 10-15k to import and then just slightly the driver side orientation and not true 4 season water lines and storage.

From what I have seen of others selling their used Karavans, they hold their value well but they are going to have a smaller niche buyer pool. I have not seen anyone struggle to sell one yet though.

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Pretty reasonable nitpicking points, and definitely all ones that I had to get my head around. I hope that the added time/import cost gets balanced by the limited number of Karavans that hit the US market in a given year, along with the lack of Karavans that ever seem to be for sale on the used market. So ideally you end up with a camper that continues to hold that value and to be reasonably easy to sell, the down side being the added cost and time at the front end. Anyway, that's what I've convinced myself of!

It is somewhat amazing to me that the Karavan seems to be in a bit of a no mans land for US companies that are looking to build US trailers that mimic Aussi and S African units (among others). Maybe just the assumption that once you get away from the market segment of the true small platform off road capable trailers, that high end becomes equated with bigger and better? A number of new and future options all seem to be considering 4 wheels instead of 2, and/or getting to a weight and size that a 1/2 ton or smaller tow vehicle is at its outer limits for towing or payload. While the Karavan is more than capable of going where I want it to go, it already seems like a fairly heavy and sizable box to be hauling around off road. Then again, as a future Karavan owner, I'm all for everyone focusing on building bigger and heavier campers in the future!

 

[rehammer81]

I've seen you in the Kimberley thread so you are aware of the legit trail some owners have taken the Karavan on. I think it comes down to how much pucker the driver can handle. Lol!

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[eatSleepWoof]

Maybe just the assumption that once you get away from the market segment of the true small platform off road capable trailers, that high end becomes equated with bigger and better?

Yes, I think that makes sense. Those that use true off-road trailers truly off-road tend to be okay with the compromises that come with such trailers. I dare say this type of setup is also typically on the cheaper side of things. When someone is paying $100k+ for what is, let's face it, a recreational toy, they will not want compromises... they will want luxuries and comforts. At that point the comforts become more important than the capabilities. I think the Airstreams are a great example of this - well built, luxurious interiors and creature comforts, but lower ground clearance than my wife's Corolla and purely warm-weather use.

This is probably why there aren't a ton of options in the 15-20ft range. Most people either want a super cheap, capable and tiny setup, or a much larger, much more comfortable trailer. There's probably a pretty small market of people who want that "golden middle."

 

[cmo5]

We were an example of the ones looking for that "golden middle".

We wanted under 20ft and 5k-ish pounds, off-road capable, no canvas, garageable, stand up interior living space, and at least 3 season capable. The Karavan is really the only real option that satisfies all those requirements. Does it have compromises? Of course it does. Is it expensive? Of course it is. But for our particular requirements it's perfect.

We haven't had it on any really aggressive trails, but we were on on some very poorly maintained forest service roads while out west with steep grades and tight switchbacks. Really appreciated the Karavan's low center of gravity, narrow width, and manageable length.

 

[calicamper]

You've been drinking too much of your own kool-aid. Nothing in the renderings on your website suggests this is anywhere close to an "elite, world class trailer."

The marketing surely has a few nice-sounding tidbits, but I find it hard to take you folks seriously when you list "Off-Road Rock Lighting" as a standard feature, but an MPPT solar controller and Thermal windows are something that only comes in the "Xtreme Package." Sounds to me like you're targeting the type of buyer that prioritizes wearing tactical underwear for their weekly pilgrimage to Walmart.

Easy to talk a big game before delivering a single unit.

Yup
The old dudes dragging their dirt bikes behind crappy old pickup trucks with tin work caps on the bed for sleeping, junky utility trailers they’ve dragged up old wagon trails. Typically wear tighty whities and know when the trailer is a no go and needs to be unloaded, winched and hand wrangled around so they can get out. Even a tactical underwear wearing, youtuber on 37’s only does the stupid trailer stunt once or twice ???. $145,000 trailer only gets pulled into trails by people wearing tactical underwear belonging to someone else??.

Horse and stock trailers cost way less and have remote locations they could get hauled if needed. However even the crusty old Cowboys running beat up old stuff will bring the stock down the road to an easier spot vs rattling their old stuff to pieces dragging it up the trail.

 

[calicamper]

Yes, I think that makes sense. Those that use true off-road trailers truly off-road tend to be okay with the compromises that come with such trailers. I dare say this type of setup is also typically on the cheaper side of things. When someone is paying $100k+ for what is, let's face it, a recreational toy, they will not want compromises... they will want luxuries and comforts. At that point the comforts become more important than the capabilities. I think the Airstreams are a great example of this - well built, luxurious interiors and creature comforts, but lower ground clearance than my wife's Corolla and purely warm-weather use.

This is probably why there aren't a ton of options in the 15-20ft range. Most people either want a super cheap, capable and tiny setup, or a much larger, much more comfortable trailer. There's probably a pretty small market of people who want that "golden middle."

The use pattern in the US of “most” rvs is parking lot living. Which means your space is basically whatever space is inside your RV. The typical RV spot today has grown meaning if you show up with a 19ft RV, your not “using” the full potential of your paid for parking spot.
The US RV size and design is directly tied to how our use / locations are setup.

At my Yacht Club we re did our 450 slip marina and reduced the number of 28 ft X 12ft wide slips to create more 40ft slips. When I bought our cruising sailboat I bought the largest boat for the smallest slip space. It’s literally 29ft x12. Definitely not a newbie effort to back into that slip, but I’m definitely getting the most bang for my boat slip fee?

The US RV market is definitely driven by RV resort parks and how they have evolved regarding parking space. The RV resorts/ parks. People rave about look like really nice parking lots ???.

The “off road” US RV is basically code for it can fit into the typical tent site at state and National parks. Oh and it probably can clear the pavement hump pushed up by the tree without dragging a sewer line?

Off road? Yeah we have well worn desert spots people will “think” a full Australian Bush wagon is needed to access. Only the tourists in rental cars driving by kicking up dust really is the best part of the positive air Australian rig??.

 

[FordGuy1]

I run into people all of the time in the middle of nowhere. For sure its a small percentage of RVers, but who cares. This trailer is 125k, but who really cares, its value depends on the individual. You can spend 85k on a basecamp which is a nice trailer with limited capability, or 125k on a trailer like a Kimberley etc.. that has 10x the capability. The cost is not relevant if you want it. Some people won't pay $150.00 for a steak, but I will, its worth it too me. I would pay 125k for this trailer all day long over 85k on a Air-stream.

 

[calicamper]

I run into people all of the time in the middle of nowhere. For sure its a small percentage of RVers, but who cares. This trailer is 125k, but who really cares, its value depends on the individual. You can spend 85k on a basecamp which is a nice trailer with limited capability, or 125k on a trailer like a Kimberley etc.. that has 10x the capability. The cost is not relevant if you want it. Some people won't pay $150.00 for a steak, but I will, its worth it too me. I would pay 125k for this trailer all day long over 85k on a Air-stream.

Financed or cash? I’m Curious?

 

[Treefarmer]

I run into people all of the time in the middle of nowhere. For sure its a small percentage of RVers, but who cares. This trailer is 125k, but who really cares, its value depends on the individual. You can spend 85k on a basecamp which is a nice trailer with limited capability, or 125k on a trailer like a Kimberley etc.. that has 10x the capability. The cost is not relevant if you want it. Some people won't pay $150.00 for a steak, but I will, its worth it too me. I would pay 125k for this trailer all day long over 85k on a Air-stream.

We full time and spend 365 days a year "in the middle of no where". We have to work harder and harder every year to continue to finds spots where you can walk outside the trailer, do a 360, and not see another camper on the horizon. We're not overlanders, but having a four wheel trailer that can get past those last few nasty arroyos to a spot most others can't reach (and do it without falling apart and ruining your day) is what we need to do now.

 

[Alloy]

I am sorry I am just not buying your comparison or reasoning here especially on your statement that you should charge more. I do think this trailer so far appears to be a very nice speced rig. It has a few specs that are not top of the line. Any off road trailer that is deemed " the best in the world " should have a galvanized chassis, a top of the line awning, the Go Power inverter/charger controler is not top of the line. It has a RV full size bed. After hearing about the QC issues that IO has had with the X22 I am just not buying that they have the ability to build a trailer like a Bruder. Before the X22 came out they only finished ice houses which is were most of the QC issues happen. Just because you say this trailer is the best and worth more then 125k does not make it so. All this said this trailer could end up being awesome just not buying 125k is a good deal. From what I have heard you we surprised of the msrp on the 145

Blow enough smoke and you have a smoke screen. They'll walk away with a couple million if they can sell enough to people that don't know the differce between a wheel nut and a flare nut.
My buddy fell into the smoke around Outdoors RV. His matches/exceeds the X22 spec and is falling apart after 3 years off road. If only he spent $75,000!!! on air ride suspension he'd could have had The Best!!!

 

[mep1811]

Mission Overland for the win.